Agency ticket prices

[smokie]

Quite often we see folks here moaning about the cost of entry or camping tickets through an agency.

Forgive me for maybe being naive, but aren't the agencies mostly trying to make a living? What other goods does one expect to buy at cost, with no markup by the retailer? How often do those who complain about the markup go to work for nothing? The size of the markup is surely due to the low "seasonal" turnover, and I assume they must be confident of demand at their prices, even though they may not suit us.

I know I looked at theatre tickets for London and there was a compulsory charge over and above face value, which I assumed was the agency's cut. Quite a few quid IIRC. The difference there being that you can no longer avoid that cost by booking direct with the theatre.

Maybe the ACO should eat into it's revenue by selling the tickets to the agencies under face value, so that they can make money without being so obvious. Or would that just end up as a price increase on the ACO face values?

If my income was dependent on selling something, and went up if I sold them for more, guess what - I'd sell them for as much as I could.

Discuss 

[DelBoy]

The whole object of selling something in a business is to make money, and obviously the price that an item is offered at is what the marketplace will pay.  The agencies can raise their prices for LM tickets up to a point where people will stop buying them.  Where that limit is, I wouldn't like to guess. However, two issues immediately spring to my mind.

Firstly, some of the agencies insist on bundling GE tickets with their camping and/or grandstand tickets, and putting a premium on the those GE tickets.  That is blatent money-grabbing in my opinion, and I would never use such an agency.

Secondly, if I go to a business and purchase one or two items, I pay the rate specified by that business.  If I want 1000 of those items, I would expect, and be offered a discount.  Depending on the quantity I wanted, that discount rate may be negotiable.  This does not seem to happen with the ACO - we are all aware that it costs cosiderably less for the ACO to sell (say) 1000 tickets to one person rather than 1 ticket to 1000 people! The ACO appears in fact to work in quite the reverse way.  We all know that they charge a premium to the 'private' people who acquire a block of space - remember White Rabbit last year?  Also, chatting with Brian from 1st-tickets, he has to pay a considerable amount to the ACO for the privilege (??) of being an accredited agent.  I also appreciate that some agencies offer added value with their tickets - hospitality areas etc - but many (me at least), do not want that 'benefit'.

I am generally upset that between them,  the ACO and (some of) the agencies are beginning to kill the goose.  If the percentage of people from CA who are not going this year is rolled out to the wide world, then there are a lot of disgruntled people.  I doubt that this will worry the ACO at this time, as numbers will probably be made up.  Also, the total attendance at the race has traditionally fluctuated anyway, dependant on many factors not least of which is what is happening on the track.  I imagine that they will be more concerned with the loss of revenue by the expected downsizing of the major players (Audi, Peugeot etc) who wont be spending so much this year because of the economic situation. 

Slightly off topic, but I believe that the powers that be at the ACO have lost touch with reality - they have been showered with euros from the majors for the past few years, and have almost ignored joe public.  Perhaps the current economic situation will provide them with the jolt they need to rethink their policy - but I doubt it!!  They had to be bailed out years ago because of their incompetence, and they don't seem to have learnt.

It won't stop me going - I suppose I have been fortunate that I have always managed to get what I wanted from the ACO (last year being the one exception when I used TL).  The 'aggro' in getting camping tickets is all part of the scene, and whilst I am not with the CA 'gang' this year (I asked for and got Houx), I will still enjoy the event as I have done on well over 30 occasions now.

Del

[dukla]

I haven't a clue what agency pricing is so here is my 6p.

Of course they are entitled to make a margin (and to run a profitable business). It is hard to know the facts of contracts between ACO and any agency, but to cause an argument I would have to accept a 50% gross margin as reasonable. Now comes the smoke & mirrors - for an €85 camping ticket (MB, Tertre Rouge, Houx etc) that results in an agency price of €170. However, noting ACO are prepared to sell these tickets to members for €77, and that the agencies should have far more favourable discount terms, I would assume the agencies get a 35% discount. So their cost should be closer to €55 with a price circa €110.

Another significant issue is cash flow: as a private buyer ACO dipped my account on 5 Feb for an event on 13 June, i.e. 120 days in advance. And they offer me no return/refund. If the agencies have to trade on similar terms I would expect them to demand better than 35% discount.

Last there is the issue of value added - is the agency going to do anything for me like mark out, label and reserve my 35m2? And provide a 'travel wallet' of junk I could sort for myself but I am too dumb to? If so they can charge an additional fee for these services.

[smokie]

Good points, all of 'em.

[Leftie]

If it wasn't for an agency, I may never of started my annual pilgramage to Le Sarthe 12/13 years ago.

Perhaps this is a naive view, but as well have to start somewhere, where as a pure novice and knowing no one to help, would you start planning a visit to 'The Race'? 5 years with agencies and now independent.

With regard to previous comments, there is no real arguement against them. The agencies are in business to make a profit. So you choose which agency depending on the cost to you.

However, I don't like the agencies insistance that camping & GA must be sold as a package. One year I didn't use my GA, I was too pissed.

[dukla]

Firstly, some of the agencies insist on bundling GE tickets with their camping and/or grandstand tickets, and putting a premium on the those GE tickets.  That is blatent money-grabbing in my opinion, and I would never use such an agency.

Mmmm - I was jut searching around and noticed some gouging UK "chaps" offering GE tickets for £120! Apart from the fact they are available on the gate for €62, anyone who is really anxious and insists on buying from an agency in advance should try Ticketnet.fr for €65. Unfortunately they don't seem to have camping tickets.

{I have no affiliation to these guys but came across them as they were official agents for the Rugby World Cup. I remain bemused that I got some RWC seats for €15, there are 6 nations tickets @ Stade de France for €15, whereas any attempt to get to Twickenham or Millennium Stadium is upwards of £150. All of which is mentioned to add to the debate about the price being pitched at the stupid level some of my fellow citizens are prepared to pay.}

[tn*c]

I do feel that there should be a maximum ticket price actually printed on the tickets. This goes for all events.

Unfortunatly there is no regulation that limits what someone can charge for a ticket. There is obvoiusly the issues as seen a couple of years ago about the sale of tickets on the internet at above Face Value and when the person did not actually have the tickets yet. By not actually having the tickets at the time of the sale you were breaching the regulations on the *bay site.

I have used ticket agencies most years with the execption of 2006 and 2007 when I got my allocation via other CA members ACO accreditation.

It is a real shame that it has gone to this. That is partially why I am also going to the Ring 24 hours this year with a view of changing events.

My main reason for potentially abandoning the event is that it is getting sooo hard to get tickets as even the agencies aren't told early enough. Most agencies have full books before the allocation arrives and they end up telling people they have no tickets left.

I feel that the event is doomed to campers in just a few years with only BSJ being offered. Corporate Hospitality will take over along with day visitors.

[Bas]

Our group has only used a ticket agency once some 10 years ago, it was our first trip to Le Mans and the easiest most reliable way to obtain tickets.
Also the Dutch agencies tend to ask a reasonable mark-up.

After that we've been fortunate enough to always be able to sort our campsite- and grandstand tickets through the ACO with the exception of last year when luckily the Office de Tourisme could help us out.

I don't mind the agencies asking a premium, it is a business after all, but forcing people to buy 2 overpriced GE tickets with each campsite ticket is a bit much imo.
Perhaps in the past the exchange rate kind of obscured the huge margins of the agencies and made the costs for a weekend Le Mans still acceptable, but now with a lower pound all has changed.

What I would like to see is that the ACO somehow "rewards" loyal visitors to the race by giving us earlier or better access to tickets.
One could think of offering people the possibility to buy a camping ticket with 1 or 2 GE-tickets at the race itself one year in advance.

Or -my favorite- offer special campsite-privileges to ACO members, f.e. MB and/or Houx only reserved for ACO-members. 2 tickets max. per ACO-member just like with T18 & T17.
That way ACO would benefit too because it would upgrade the value of ACO-membership for us foreigners.

Finally I don't believe in the doom and gloom of corporate hospitality taking over and camping at the 24h coming to an end.
Yes it will change but we'll adapt and it certainly isn't going to keep us away.

[Lorry]

Oh this is an old arguement.

In the days of the internet, the package tour companies have taken a bashing, but this doesn't work for Le Mans, because the ACO aren't user friendly.  We've been booking direct for years, but may have to go to an agency to get the tickets we want.  We probably won't as its cost over £200 per man this year, when it was only £120 a few years ago.  It looks like going through an agency will make it £300 a man, and I'm not sure most of the team can afford that.

So for me and the boy, its going to cost us over £1,000 this year.  I'd expect to be flown into the VIP suite for that money.

[Dobbo]

However, noting ACO are prepared to sell these tickets to members for €77, and that the agencies should have far more favourable discount terms, I would assume the agencies get a 35% discount. So their cost should be closer to €55 with a price circa €110.

I run a small agency (not one of the four official ones) and thought it would be useful to clear up the above, at least for our agency. We buy the tickets on exactly the same terms as joe public. So the only discount we receive is for booking General Admission tickets in blocks of more than 20 (that is available to anyone) and the discount on 6 camping places available to ACO members (I always take up the membership because the discount in tickets normally pays for it).

[Piglet]

I'm one of the folks who bitches constantly about the agencies and the ACO. 

For a number of years I have been able to apply to the ACO to buy the camping passes that I want at face value.  The system now appears to be (but of course the ACO don't communicate with Joe Public so we can only assume) that the majority of the more popular campsites are sold predominately to agencies.    These days If I apply for tickets on the opening date for orders I get allocated BSJ because the ACO favour those that have ordered for longer than I have and the agencies.  There isn't anything I can do about this other than to find a time machine and transfer myself back to 1985 to order tickets

If I order from an agency the majority of them put a mark up onto their camping passes plus insist that I have to buy two over priced GE tickets per camping pass.  Now we all know that a camping pass of 7x5 isn't really much use to anyone other than a man with a small car and a small tent, it's around half the size of a standard UK or European camping pitch so in most cases one requires two pitches for a decent sized tent and car (not forgetting that the ACO are becoming increasingly anal about one parking one's car outside of one's pitch  )    I don't need two over priced GE's for the two of us and I certainly don't want four. 

I love LM but financially I can't afford to be fleeced.  Basically I love motorsport and there is plenty of other motorsport in the world that I'd love to see, I don't have enough holiday to do all of it so I'll do what I can afford to do and what I can do easily.  Unfortunately LM is taking itself out of that equation on both fronts.

I don't really begrudge the agencies making a profit, I object to the way the ACO is operating that makes it impossible to get what one wants without going to an agency. 

[geoffd]

If you can afford it pay it, if you can't or don't want to, then don't.  It's as simple as that surely?

I don't use agencies, but then I don't need camping passes, so as far as I can tell the only reason to use them is to get your choice of campsite rather than the seemingly random ACO allocation!

Yes the agencies, charge more than the ACO,  but we all have a choice!  Same as where you buy your groceries from, if you are a cheapskate and suicidal you go to Asda, if you want decent food you go to Waitrose

At the end of the day those that use Agencies accept the price they pay, end of story!

[Nordic]

Maybe another way of looking at it is why do we always want to camp on a certain site, if your that fussy then your ripe to taken advantage of and could expect to be rolled, maybe you should expect to use a bit more shoe leather?

I have not heard of anyone every being told that allthe sites are fully booked this far in advance.

Another problem now that the sites have space allocted is that in the past a group in a large car or mini bus could get away with just buying one or 2 tickets, now you have to take into account the restricted space that would offer. Therefore people are buying more tickets.

Its also common practice for groups to make multiple applications, (we have done it) in the hope of getting the tickets we want, we then turn down those that we dont want. Again this will screw up the allocation process and maybe bump people into other sites, only for the tickets refused then being re allocated to newer applicantes.

Personally since we have stopped being able to buy on the gate in 94 or 95 I have gone thru an agent sometimes, the ACO other times but either way we have always ended up with the tickets we need. It will now be harder to ensure the whole group is together if tickets come from different sorces but its not the end of the world.

[Barry]

I have no objection to paying over the odds for camping tickets, it's supply and demand.
What I do object to is being blackmailed into buying two GA tickets with an even larger markup than the camping pass.

The situation up to about 2 years ago was fine, if you got your finger out and applied to the ACO early, you had a good chance of getting a reasonable camping pass, it you didn't then you had to source else where.

One of the attractions of LM was, apart from being a great week/race/event, was that it was relativly cheap if you did it yourself.

For many people like myself, Le Mans is a treat which has to be paid for out of a family budget which is under daily pressure from many directions, and paying £500 for tickets with a face value of £150 becomes unjustifable.

I would be happy with BSJ IF the ACO got their act together re shuttle buses, and by that I mean a similar system to the one run by the Val d'isere ski resort, frequent reliable buses when they are needed, not the random service that has existed in the past.

Where do we go from here?

Try and make an arrangement with TL for next year, who have a system and pricing structure which I think most people are happy with?

Put up with BSJ?

Look at staying elsewhere, and come in for the race?

Abandon LM altogether? As Piglet says there is entertainment else where.

[termietermite]

I do think it is the camping which causes all the hassle.  Take that out of it and book G/E and grandstand via the ACO and, provided you get your order in on time, you get what you want.  The only headache I have ever had is with camping.  I don't get MB now as it's smaller and, yes, the agenicies and magic listers get the whole site now, I admit, but that's hardly surprising given how much of the close-by camping space has been and is being lost to other public works and developments - football stadium, tramway etc.

I'm pretty sure the fact that the camping doesn't affect the locals much also means that the ACO get less customer feedback and moans about it.  I'm not even sure if they realise how upset everybody gets or why.  If you were French you'd just park illegally on the side of a road somewhere and kip in the car.  The fact that this isn't an option for those who come a long way is - I reckon - a bit lost on them.