.

[Lazy B'stard]

It will go to court of appeal in Paris now as the stewards declared the result final.
 A Sham.

[Muzorewa]

If the appeal succeeds, do Ferrari then appeal against the decision not to penalise Hamilton for the tyre infringement on Saturday? 

[mgmark]

They've got to do something to keep F1 in the public eye , otherwise, there's 20-ish weeks of nothing (blessed relief) until the first race of 2008......

MG Mark

[Dangermouse]

Three teams incurred the wrath of the stewards on Saturday. By all accounts it was  a mid-season rule change that caught them out. £10,000 each was the result so thats been dealt with.
Bit like Ferrari starting on the wrong tyres in Japan....they didn't know the rules either.

What sort of sport can spend 100's of £1,000,000s and have teams that don't know the rules?


Anyway...........back to proper Motorsport!   

[LangTall]

If this appeal is won, for me F1 is over.

For f*cks sake, Kimi wins the race, and through that the championship. And over such a thing he would lose eventually?? Hamilton and his team made the mistakes themselves, and lost through that, not because there might be a small irregulation on the fuel temperature of Williams and BMW.

[Muzorewa]

What sort of sport can spend 100's of £1,000,000s and have teams that don't know the rules?

I know what you mean, Ferrari are normally the masters of the rulebook, like instructing Shuey to come in to the pits at the end of his final lap to take his drive-thru penalty and a win, WTF? 

[Kpy]

If this appeal is won, for me F1 is over.

For f*cks sake, Kimi wins the race, and through that the championship. And over such a thing he would lose eventually?? Hamilton and his team made the mistakes themselves, and lost through that, not because there might be a small irregulation on the fuel temperature of Williams and BMW.

So, because this was a championship-deciding race, the technical regulations do not apply to BMW or to Williams?

How would this pan out in a similar situation affecting the Le Mans 24 Hours?

[mgmark]

To go along with building a quick car in the first place, at the heart of F1, like every other race series, lies the aspect of motor racing called "who can exploit the rulebook best and get away with it", whether it be the technical or race regulations.  One of the Christmas holiday "must reads" every year for UK motorsport competitors is the next season's RAC MSA blue book, to study the general and series specific regulations for whatever series you're competing in, to see if you can spot any loopholes.  And to see if there are any little gotchyas, like them changing the size of race numbers or backgrounds, to avoid getting caught out by something daft.  

Some get found out and some don't.  Who knows whether the teams involved in the tyre issues or fuel temperatures took a deliberate gamble that, if they were spotted/found out, the penalty would be only a fine (which at £10k in F1 doesn't really even rate as beer money) rather than a disqualification, reduction in points or a drop down the grid?

MG Mark

[Rhino]

They need better policing at the top. There never seems to be any concistency in decisions. The whole stepneygate drama should have been sorted behind closed doors. And Max Mosley should quit, his comments about Jackie Stewart were plain childish.

[Floris]

What sort of sport can spend 100's of £1,000,000s and have teams that don't know the rules?

I know what you mean, Ferrari are normally the masters of the rulebook, like instructing Shuey to come in to the pits at the end of his final lap to take his drive-thru penalty and a win, WTF? 

They DID KNOW the rules (and the finish line was at the beginning of the pit lane (they changed it after that race)... but that win was due to real masters at work....  The final lap in that race was the last lap he had to take that drive-thru (because of the 5 lap limit after the team is warned, they where notified 5 laps before the flag)

[LangTall]

If this appeal is won, for me F1 is over.

For f*cks sake, Kimi wins the race, and through that the championship. And over such a thing he would lose eventually?? Hamilton and his team made the mistakes themselves, and lost through that, not because there might be a small irregulation on the fuel temperature of Williams and BMW.

So, because this was a championship-deciding race, the technical regulations do not apply to BMW or to Williams?

How would this pan out in a similar situation affecting the Le Mans 24 Hours?

I've dug a bit deeper in all this. The stupidity is, the FOM makes temperature measures, and teams base themselves on the measuring of Meteo France. There was a difference between those measurings of 'a few centigrades'. Question is now, was this 'a few' 4 centigrades? If so, that would explain why the fuel was 4 centigrades to cold compared to the FOM measuring.

I agree, regulations are regulations, and should be kept. But if we look at what happened this year on other penalties given, on this it was the TEAM who made the mistake, and not the driver, and the team should be penalised and not the driver. Otherwise we should also strip away the points of Alonso and Hamilton, just like it happend to the team McLaren. That would have been a very dull racing further on after Hungary, which is the only reason why it wasn't done.

@Catchpole:
Of course there was a team order there. Massa was very clear about that all the time, that he would support his teammate all the way to the championship. I'm not sure whether Alonso would do the same thing for his teammate, as he was still contending for the championship himself.

And yes, I like the prancing horse. I'm not driving one, can't afford it.

[knetter]

Of course they were team orders, but at least they did not do it very obvious. Kimi did do a couple of very quick laps before going in to the pits and made up some time there.

[Newcastle Dave]

Rules are rules and those that break them should face major penalty - F1 is a farcical circus though and it is the inconsistency and politics that prevail - not their rule book

Strikes me that

- perhaps there are too many needless rules - if the team can get a few extra hp from cooling the fuel then let them do it then there can be no argument.  F1 should have the worlds best engineers and race strategists looking to push the boundaries of technical and legal limits.

- what rules are then left in a much reduced rulebook should be rigidly applied and sanctions taken immediately against those that break them (where possible during the race) eg drive through penalties and grid postion loss.

- Does the rule  book grade offences so that the stewards can imply the appropriate level of penalty - I think probably not - such decisions are referred upsairs and upstairs is where the sport's biggest threat is at present

Time to move on for Bernie and Max I think and let the sport and not the politics prevail.

I think :
McLaren have been hard done to this year in the spygate hearing
However Mclaren blew this drivers title for the team by not mangaing Alonso properly and making bad decisions
Hamilton lost his way and the title by changing the way he raced and losing his head twice - not insisting tyres were changed in Shangai and trying to retake Alonso yesterday.
Kimi fully deserved the title
BMW and Williams should be punished - £50,000 each
lets hope everyone in F1 learns from this - its been a poor season from Hungary onwards - not great as ITV would like us to believe

[Dangermouse]

Of course there are team orders....it's a team sport.
So why do we have the farce of a pretend slow lap or three.
We know whats going to happen so why have to hide it.
If we know a team has a number 1 and a number 2 then so be it, if a team has equal drivers then so be it. As long as we KNOW!

Ask the bookies what odds you would have got on lap 20 on a Raikkonen win....that tells you all you need to know . The sport is corrupt!

I agree Waldorf & Stadler have to go (Max & Bernie) Max in his F1 interview last week actually stated that Ferrari get special treatment in F1 and they are valued more to F1 than the other teams...No sh*t!

This goes back years this preference for the dancing mule.......and don't get me started on winning races after the flag has dropped whilst serving a stop & go...................


............and breathe  

[Boorish Grobian]

I suspect the BMW and Williams thing will result in a slap on the wrist.  The FIA won't want to see the title outcome changed by the conduct of other teams.  At the end of the day the best driver won the title.  He made the fewest mistakes and as a result is a deserving world champ.  Hamilton will win the title someday soon, but he absolutley sh*t himself the last two races of the season, no other way to describe it.  As for team orders?....Jesus, they've been a part of the sport since the days of Auto Union and Mercedes.  It's laughable that the FIA has to have some sort of stupid regulation regarding them in the first place.
Fax