Behaviour at LM

[Leftie]

I was searching for a link to the "Hotel de France" at Chartres sur Loire as I was looking for contact details and this came up.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=25&t=404785&i=80

We all know this happens, when I was a 'newby' at LM this type of behaviour was generally good humoured. But judging by the contentents on the Pistonhead thread, it's getting worse and violent.

As an old LM hand of 15yrs, I have come to know places to avoid on the Friday and Saturday. If I want to go there I choose another time.

With 50-80 thousand Brits (size of a small town), there will always be *rses that want 'attention'. But judging by the above thread, it seams to be getting worse which shines a very bad light on the rest of us Brits.

In my years at LM, I have met some fabulous people from many countries and I dare say many of those are of a similar mind, as there are good and bad within all nationalities.

It is obvious that we cannot really control it. But if, when thinking of the 'locals' just going about their daily business and the amount of harassment that they experience from the 'louts' (of all nationalities).  It makes me ashamed to be a Brit' as we seem to be the biggest contingent and it seems the most 'violent'.

How would one control the attendence. Tickets only to members of a registered / affiliated club! What about the Page & Moy type and their counterparts from other countries. Loss of business could create another claims culture. How would they vet their 'clients'? Then there are the 'independents' like most of us. How would the ACO control that? They could make it a condition that ACO membership is mandatory. 'Louts' will just join.

How can this worsening behavour be 'policed'? I don't think more CRS attendence will help although having seen a few 'instances' or should I say 'comming togethers', the problem(s) desisted very rapidly.

What are your views?

Jerry

(I apologise for the very long ramble)

[Piglet]

The problem (as I see it) is that LM has become an "event", it's no longer just where people go to enjoy the most fantastic and wonderful motor race in the world.

It's now where people go to (usually!) sit in the sunshine, drink shedloads of cheap beer and (these days) set up their speakers until 5am, turn doughnuts round fields and behave badly. 

As most of us would agree, some of these activities are part of LM and part of why we enjoy it but most of us are wise enough to know what whilst we have the right to enjoy ourselves so do others.

It's when the behaviour of the minority effects the majority that you get problems and that sadly (IMO) is down to the "I can do what I want and you can't stop me" mentality that appears to be so prevelant in British society these days.   Maybe the same happens across other societies - I don't know I only live here! 

LM has become such a mainstream event that the type of folks attending has changed, many of them have not been to other motorsport events and probably don't attend another race during the year, it's not the motorsport that they go for it's the piss up and whilst that is part of LM it shouldn't be just the piss up and the behaviour of some shouldn't take over the event for all.

The difficulty is that for the ACO to clamp down (and they are doing so on the campsites I think) this is likely to effect "our" groups.  I can see them at some point bringing in a time at which music has to be turned off and we'll be effected because some of the idiots have no sense of community and no common sense. 

Maybe once the ability to party to excess (in a negative way) has been removed, all of the morons who only come for the piss up will find another event to ruin - hopefully we can then have our event back and make it our own again.

Other than that - let's please stop saying how good the Classic is and see if we can keep the morons away 

[could someone give me a hand off this soapbox please?  ]

[NorwayNick]

It has gotten worse in le-mans the last few years, i have been going to Le-Mans for over 15 years now and this year we were joined by a friend who has not been for 5 years, he now lives in the USA and could not believe the amount of Beer drinking Fooball shirt Chavs that probably did not see more than 5 minutes of the race and if asked could not tell the difference between a petrol and a Diesel engine.
It has got to the stage now where im ashamed to admit that i am English around these idiots and only Speak Norwegain when im around them.
I have no problem with people having a good time and partying most of the Night away but there is a limit to the amount of noise you are making depending on the hour of the night, but unfortunatly peoples hearing seems to get worse the more beer that goes in, so the stereo get louder.
it has gotten to the stage now if i dont get tickets to MB i will camp outside the circuit at a local campsite, to avoid these scum.

ok im getting of my soap box now 

[Andy Zarse]

As I never tire of telling people, the behaviour at Le Mans these days is far better than it was tewnty years ago. We then had the Jag-U-Ar La La La morons who were closely related to the pig-sh*t thick Our Nige (Mansell) brigade. There were football hooligan style punch ups and assaults. The CRS were just about everywhere and had their work cut out at times.

All this "it never used to be like this in the old days" is a load of rubbish and it really gets my goat. I'm not saying there isn't bad behaviour today  but it's complete and utter nonsense to pretend it didn't used to go on years ago too.

[Steve TTTD]

I know this discussion has gone on before but there did seem to be a bit of 'hightened' atmosphere at this years race.
Whether it was to do with the weather or something else I don't know, but certainly when the weather is not so good people's attitudes seem to change..
Maybe when it's hot and sunny people tend to 'chill' more...

[Bob U]

I'm with Andy on this one.

First year I went was 91. There was a bierkeller type bar midway between the old fairground and Tertra Rouge. There was a great atmosphere in there with a wonderful Blues/Soul band playing. Midnightish, a bunch of morons showed up and all they were interested in was chanting "Jag-U-ar Jag-U-ar Jag-U-ar". That started an equally moronic chant of "Porsharr Porsharr". Red rag to a bull time and it kicked off big style. We got out pretty sharpish and watched from a distance. The CRS turned up and lashed out at  anyone and everyone. It was pretty scarey and I remember thinking, Bollox to this, I havn't come to a motor race to be subjected to this.
Fortunately the good stuff outweighed the bad stuff by a vast amount and I didn't let it put me off.
As far as I now it has always happened and I don't ever see it improving.
Maybe next year with the football World cup or whatever being on some of the knuckle draggers will go there instead and LM will be a little less moronic.

[Nordic]

I agree with Andy and Bob in so much as trouble has been around for most of the years that I have been. We got stuff nicked back in the early 80's from the long gone Panorma campsite for example.

The Jaguar chanting knobs in the late 80's were off putting and trouble did flare up, a visit to the fun fair was always a tense affair when encountering drunken locals looking for a little action.

The Drag racing inside the campsites resulted in more than one car vs tree collision and some tents did get damaged. I remember in the early 90's some guy hitting a tree in a newish Jag XJ6 on the Houx site. The front of the jag was pretty badly smashed up and the car had to be pushed back the drivers pitch, he then retired into his tent from which loud sobs could be heard. It later turned out the car was not his but his dads.

I think the reason that it feels worse now is that it is harder to escape the trouble. It used to be mostly confined to the bar areas and was pretty easy to spot and avoid or known roads in and out of sites. Now it is less defined and trouble or at least the impression of expected trouble on the campsites is increasing and the road network is alot more congested with the threat of being picked on by a drunken twat has spread to almost any road and is therefore harder to avoid.

Campers have more items that can cause friction, gennys, mini motos, powered scooters, high volume water pistols etc have become much more popular. 10 or maybe even 5 years ago the worst you could expect was a bit of music.

[oldtimer]

I'm with Andy on this one.

Me too, the general level of behaviour in those 'good old days' was terrible.  Not to say some examples of appalling behaviour aren't happening these days though.

[Lord Steve]

I'm with Andy on this one.

First year I went was 91. There was a bierkeller type bar midway between the old fairground and Tertra Rouge. There was a great atmosphere in there with a wonderful Blues/Soul band playing. Midnightish, a bunch of morons showed up and all they were interested in was chanting "Jag-U-ar Jag-U-ar Jag-U-ar". That started an equally moronic chant of "Porsharr Porsharr". Red rag to a bull time and it kicked off big style. We got out pretty sharpish and watched from a distance. The CRS turned up and lashed out at  anyone and everyone. It was pretty scarey and I remember thinking, Bollox to this, I havn't come to a motor race to be subjected to this.
Fortunately the good stuff outweighed the bad stuff by a vast amount and I didn't let it put me off.
As far as I now it has always happened and I don't ever see it improving.
Maybe next year with the football World cup or whatever being on some of the knuckle draggers will go there instead and LM will be a little less moronic.

Andy / Bob
Whilst I completely agree with you both I think that the point everyone is making is that just because it happened in the past doesn't, of course, make it right now. Someone has already said that LM is in danger of becoming an "event" which attracts not only a massive number of serious enthusiasts like ourselves but also attract, in seemingly increasing numbers a group of people who do not set out to cause trouble for others but allow themselves to be swept along on a wave of cheap drink. The results for those of a certain disposition are inevitable.
I have to say that I don't quite know what the answer is - they won't stop me from going and my experience lets me pick where I want to be and where to avoid.
I do feel sorry for the local people trying to go about their business (especially those who live nearby and have to use the road between MB and Blue) and I ALWAYS behave with complete respect towards our hosts.
Sadly, I can't say the same for others.

I could go on but it would not be constructive - I really don't know if there's an answer here!
Steve

[Piglet]

I think the reason that it feels worse now is that it is harder to escape the trouble. It used to be mostly confined to the bar areas and was pretty easy to spot and avoid or known roads in and out of sites. Now it is less defined and trouble or at least the impression of expected trouble on the campsites is increasing and the road network is alot more congested with the threat of being picked on by a drunken twat has spread to almost any road and is therefore harder to avoid.

Campers have more items that can cause friction, gennys, mini motos, powered scooters, high volume water pistols etc have become much more popular. 10 or maybe even 5 years ago the worst you could expect was a bit of music.

I think that's probably two very good points. 

[termietermite]

Steve, happily the majority of the locals don't resent everybody just because of a few t*ssers.  Most are happy to take the money!  The general comment here seems to be that the car crowd are 100 times better than those who attend the bike races - especially the 24 hour moto, where in fact many of the rowdier ones are French (although the average Sarthois swears they're not from 72 of course!)  There's an object lesson there too - draconian measures re drink at the Moto races could spread to our first love if people aren't careful.  I can't buy alcohol in my local supermarket (20 miles away!) when the bikers are about.  That does cause resentment amongst the locals!

[Lord Steve]

Termie
I can well imagine the resentment although I suppose a little pre-planning and stocking up is in order!
I think that next year we'll be looking towards camping off-site in one of the rather tempting local private campsites. Change is as good as a rest methinks.
Steve

[fagey]

Steve, happily the majority of the locals don't resent everybody just because of a few t*ssers.  Most are happy to take the money!  The general comment here seems to be that the car crowd are 100 times better than those who attend the bike races - especially the 24 hour moto, where in fact many of the rowdier ones are French (although the average Sarthois swears they're not from 72 of course!)  There's an object lesson there too - draconian measures re drink at the Moto races could spread to our first love if people aren't careful.  I can't buy alcohol in my local supermarket (20 miles away!) when the bikers are about.  That does cause resentment amongst the locals!

debs,

on behalf of the bikers.. there is rowdyness.. i cant comment on the bike 24hr but at the motogp it is all just good bantered drunkeness.. as as for the booze ban the locals should take it out on the local government as it is only a ban on beer.. they bring it on themselves as insted of beer you see the bikers coming out of the shops with spirits.. and in my case loads of luverly vin rouge..

horses for courses methinks..

Andy

[termietermite]

It seems to be the 24 lot who cause all the problems.  I have a friend who is a radiographer and the 24 hour bikers are known at LM hospital as "the parts bin" because of their kind organ donations every year.  The supermarkets are good enough to put up notices during the week running up to the race, reminding everybody to top up on their booze supplies in advance!