Campsite Theft - BE AWARE !!!

[elanman]

I was part of the same group as MGMark and echo the sentiments of what was overall an excellent week trashed at the final turn by the scrotes.  I initially thought it was a Bleu Nord phenomena as the site is so open and quite frankly unbelieveably quiet in the wee small hours.  But I then got to thinking that Karting Nord, our home of the last few years is just as open if somewhat livelier. However it seems from the series of posts here that even sites that might seem a little more secure as they are less open and inside the circuit (MB) suffer the same rate of  theft as elsewhere.  In the past 15 years at Le Mans I have not been aware of a level of theft such as that reported this year, is it higher or is it just that it came closer this year?  All sensible precautions suggested here are valid and as I don't seriously expect positive action from the authorities, ACO or Police (in fairness it is difficult to see what they could realistically do as an effective security presence throughout would be prohibitively expensive) sensible precautions (with the added benefit of hindsight) and a degree of self policing seem the most appropriate way forward   

[termietermite]

I've been attending the same music festival for the last 35 years.  Like LM, it has been the most secure and safe feeling place for years and years.  Then suddenly in '06, the thefts started.  It seems to be an epidemic now at camping events with the insecure nature of kipping in tents.  Goodness, I'm getting grumpy!

However, I was around when somebody found a whole pile of stolen stuff outside one of the tents and happily a few people got their stuff returned so there's the occasional happy ending still.

On a practical note, it is always a good idea to report any and all thefts to the police, in spite of what the "security" people on the site say.  It's important to make the local gendarmerie aware of the level of thefts going on, and it helps if you make an insurance claim!

[mgmark]

Thanks for the support folks - might be worth us putting a beefed up section on prudent campsite security measures in the Guide, with a few notes on what to do if things do go wrong.  In the latter respect, we found that it was no use in talking to the controle personnel on site - it isn't their job and while they're sympathetic, that is all they can be.  There were no security personnel there at the time.  The gendarmes we found outside the site, many of them drafted in from outside the area, didn't know what to do or where to go, other than to say that it was a matter for the Police Nationale. 

That last bit is the key - you need to report anything to the police rather than the gendarmes, and on race weekend, the place to go is the Commissariat de Police in Le Mans itself, on the Rue Coeffort in Le Mans.  You make a declaration of a loss or theft there, they give you a nicely stamped up official form, which is your key to returning to UK (i.e. if you have lost your passport - ignore any advice from the Passport Office that you need to go to the British Embassy in Paris to get a temporary passport!) and for making any subsequent insurance claim.  A link to a map with their location is:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=rue+coeffort&sll=54.162434,-3.647461&sspn=14.412232,27.509766&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=48.000031,0.200758&spn=0.016052,0.026865&z=15

The experience has not put us off the campsites - we've been on them for the last 14 years, and love the atrmosphere they create.   It is the first time it has happened to anyone in our group or even near to our group.  What we did do right was to secure valuables hidden away from sight inside an alarmed car.  However, the fatal flaw with that when the scrote gets the keys..... Aside from dreams of exploding errant scrotes with a minefield, or connecting them to the French National Grid, first thoughts on what we might be doing differently next year centre around:

1)  Better perimeter protection - we used tape which was pegged to the ground this year, just to mark out the area for our group who were arriving at different times.  Picket posts and plastic fencing (like at DfH's site) would make it more awkward/difficult to gain casual access/egress to/from the group's area without arousing suspicion or tripping over it, particularly in the dark. 

2)  Loud portable alarms that can be fixed so that they are triggered by the opening of tent flaps or doors, or the movement of items such as bags or keys.  There are plenty of these around on the market for around a fiver each, which can be fixed in place so that the movement of a zip, bag, door or key bunch would trigger them.  Similarly, there are wireless PIR sensors that can be linked to a sounder, although they may be more subject to triggering by drunk members of the group pitching back into the site late at night.

Plenty of food for thought for additional security there.  Don't know yet how well they work, but there seem to be plenty of suitable things to use:
 
http://www.personalalarms.com/store/erol.html#1X0
http://www.c-p-p.co.uk/

MG Mark

[Mr. Invincible Mou]

I may as well add my 2p's worth.

First off, sorry to all that lost gear. It would seem that generally people did try to be careful.

I was woken on Thursday Night, by someone unzipping my inner tent (extremely quietly I should add), but he buggered off before I could grab him, at least I lost nothing. This really forced us to rethink things for the rest of the weekend, so we were quite surprised to find that another of our tents was turned over Saturday night, whilst two people were asleep in it, and they had their damp, dirty smell clothing nicked   Fortunately that was all that went, but it is the sense of personal invasion which hurts.

We woke to find that several people near us had been robbed, including a camper van which had been forcibly broken into. We found a mobile phone near our tent, and after a call to some of the numbers on it, managed to contact the owner and return it to him. He had also been turned over as had several tents in their area. Two guys had been caught and beaten before they escaped, and in this case it would seem they were English.

Perhaps we have been blaming the Pikies for too long, and this is a problem we are taking with us? After all, in the UK there is practically no punishment at all these days for theft, and in some "deprived"     cases it even leads to rewards. I think it is time that we really start to stand up for what should be seen as right and proper, and emmigrate somewhere where this sort of behaviour is simply not tolerated.

Perhaps the Arabs really do have the right idea when it comes to punishing theives.

[redstu]

It does seem that we must be more vigilant from now on, everyone takes great care with what we know to be valuable (money, keys etc) but it seems that they will take just about anything and in daylight.

I had my fleece lifted on Friday afternoon (in MB), true it was just lying on a seat in an open fronted gazebo but it wasn't anything special , just good enough to keep warm in however as it was the only warm top I had with me I had to double up on t shirts when it was cooler.

The car strong boxes mentioned in an early post look good for the small expensive stuff but I think a tent alarm linked to a CS gas spray will be trialed for next year (its legal in France I think!).

[Dirk3D_NL]

Thanks for the support folks - might be worth us putting a beefed up section on prudent campsite security measures in the Guide, with a few notes on what to do if things do go wrong.  In the latter respect, we found that it was no use in talking to the controle personnel on site - it isn't their job and while they're sympathetic, that is all they can be.  There were no security personnel there at the time.  The gendarmes we found outside the site, many of them drafted in from outside the area, didn't know what to do or where to go, other than to say that it was a matter for the Police Nationale. 

That last bit is the key - you need to report anything to the police rather than the gendarmes, and on race weekend, the place to go is the Commissariat de Police in Le Mans itself, on the Rue Coeffort in Le Mans.  You make a declaration of a loss or theft there, they give you a nicely stamped up official form, which is your key to returning to UK (i.e. if you have lost your passport - ignore any advice from the Passport Office that you need to go to the British Embassy in Paris to get a temporary passport!) and for making any subsequent insurance claim.  A link to a map with their location is:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=rue+coeffort&sll=54.162434,-3.647461&sspn=14.412232,27.509766&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=48.000031,0.200758&spn=0.016052,0.026865&z=15

The experience has not put us off the campsites - we've been on them for the last 14 years, and love the atrmosphere they create.   It is the first time it has happened to anyone in our group or even near to our group.  What we did do right was to secure valuables hidden away from sight inside an alarmed car.  However, the fatal flaw with that when the scrote gets the keys..... Aside from dreams of exploding errant scrotes with a minefield, or connecting them to the French National Grid, first thoughts on what we might be doing differently next year centre around:

1)  Better perimeter protection - we used tape which was pegged to the ground this year, just to mark out the area for our group who were arriving at different times.  Picket posts and plastic fencing (like at DfH's site) would make it more awkward/difficult to gain casual access/egress to/from the group's area without arousing suspicion or tripping over it, particularly in the dark. 

2)  Loud portable alarms that can be fixed so that they are triggered by the opening of tent flaps or doors, or the movement of items such as bags or keys.  There are plenty of these around on the market for around a fiver each, which can be fixed in place so that the movement of a zip, bag, door or key bunch would trigger them.  Similarly, there are wireless PIR sensors that can be linked to a sounder, although they may be more subject to triggering by drunk members of the group pitching back into the site late at night.

Plenty of food for thought for additional security there.  Don't know yet how well they work, but there seem to be plenty of suitable things to use:
 
http://www.personalalarms.com/store/erol.html#1X0
http://www.c-p-p.co.uk/

MG Mark

I think that this is useful and even vital information in next years CA Guide

[Piglet]

Thanks Mark, those websites are helpful.  I think locking stuff in the car has to be the way forward but what needs to be worked on is somewhere safe to keep keys whilst we are sleeping.  I am really worried about blipping the car open if I put the keys in my sleeping bag or under a pillow. 

Assuming that these guys just grab and run, we wondered whether simply linking our bags together with a cycle lock might be a good start - then if they grab one bag they get a number of them together (works less well for those in a tent on their own I guess) which makes it less easy to manage a quick getaway. 

My other cunning plan is that my side of the tent is always in such a mess that it takes me ten minutes to find my keys each morning anyway!    I normally take my watch and jewellery off at night but I think I'll sleep in it now so it's not lying around. 

[Andy Zarse]

God Mark, that's a really bad ending to a great week. For the record, we had a Goped stolen from the tent on saturday night. No idea who took it, indeed we only realised it was missing when we unpacked the Commer yesterday! So a call to the insurance company is on the cards later. It's annoying, sure, but compared to losing a passport it's not even comparable.

I can't help thinking some home grown security might be in order next year. We could print and stick up some posters in various language warning the perpetrators very clearly what will happen to them if they are caught; it won't involve the police either! And perhaps some "tough love"  dealt out might deter the little b*stards once word gets around.

[Werner]

On the danger of sounding naive:

Could a letter from CA to the ACO, signed by many of us, with a list of thefts that we know first hand of, and a comment about the negative publicity they have regarding this topic in many forums probably change something, may be more security personel??? At least no one of them could claim that they never heard about this...

[Douglas]

Sorry to repeat myself but this was my post on the 'Golden Era' thread. Werner....great minds think alike!

I have never been one for complaining formally; usually a few days after any bother, whether on holiday or otherwise, I run out of steam and move on.
My LM experience this year was disappointing and disheartening. To save a lot of verbiage the problems were:

Theft on campsites
the pretence of security
the appalling food available at the circuit
the lack of sufficient sanitary provision for campers
drunken yobs
corporate influence
the obstructed views of the cars
the loss of promenading opportunities, (ie Arnage corner on Friday)
the use of the 'safety car' to sanitise all of the challenge that the elements posed
The ACO rely on the income from Brits, Dutch, Danes etc., to finance the events at La Sarthe. Without the punters they are nothing. Unless we go,(to the 24hrs, Classic etc.), the ACO itself will collapse, and corporate sponsorship will only want to support the race as long as there is a 'public' to advertise their products to and feel more important than.

My experience with a thief at 5am on Sunday morning mentioned by others on another thread was demonstrative of so much that is going wrong. We can't go around simply beating crims up, these days you are as likely to get stabbed for your trouble, there were four working together in my particular instance. However; when you point out the crim to security staff, you expect them to do something about it, (they watched as he 'tried' a few other tents with his three mates), rather than standing around smoking Gitane and watching the race. The 'security' on the campsites was a sham and ironically some of the crims used, "only security" as their excuse when caught in the act.
The Police of any description were not interested in my complaint at all! 'Private land' they said!

The crime has turned into an epidemic, we can only take sensible personal precautions, the ACO haveto act professionally, or any respect they still retain will be diluted and then lost, as I fear will the race.

The cost of employing Police inside the circuit would be an expense, however; they have the professional skills and the authority to act summarily. When the cost is spread between all of those who attend it would be minimal expense per head, and what a fantastic relief it would be for us all to know that matters were in safe hands. It would be a cost that I would be happy to suffer.

Can I implore those who speak of providing our own security, to think again? We will be accussed of being vigilanties, someone will get hurt and the damn crims might even sue or bring their mates back.

On the subject of changes to come, I have heard the following from a very reliable source.
ACO are intending to insist that all camping is in tents provided by them,at considerable expense, as with their experiments this year at various locations with Quecha rabbit hutches. No personal cooking facilities will be allowed inside the circuit perimeter; unless inside a caravan/motorhome etc. which will have their own site, probably BSJ. They will restrict grandstand seating to all but corpoates in Durand and ACO tribunes.

What a bloody disaster! We are representative of so many of the ordinary folks who attend simply to enjoy themselves, why don't we complain by letter/petition to the ACO? I have no doubt that were we to contact all of those with whom we have a link that they would support such a move and the numbers would be substantial. As a group we are powerful, our economic input to La Sarthe should not be underestimated and without us there is no race.

On the up side the DfH party was as good as ever and the auction a great success.

We need to act soon or lose our excuse to escape the apron strings (of home and work) for a day or two.

How about it?

Doug, otherwise known as Mr Grumpy!

[John Boy]

I'm afraid we were another statistic with regards to this.  Fortunately one of our guys returned to the tent early (2am wimp!) to find some little bar stewards rummaging through our tent on MB and chased them off.  Found out later they only got away with a pair of binoculars and a head torch, but they did drop about 16 Marlboro reds, my hat and a mobile that was apparently nicked from a tent earlier on (found and safely returned to the owner thanks to Mr Invisible? camped opposite).  We were lucky in that we were away from the tent and so had valuables either with us or locked in the car.

Chatting to a prison warden camped besides us, he suggested that if anyone gets hold of the scrotes make every effort to get him/her and accomplices names, addresses etc (we have ways of making you talk).  I bet half of them are daft enough to carry their own walets with ID on them.  And as, I'm ashamed to say, it appears as many of them are from Blighty as are French, report them to the authorities both in France (hand them over avec bruises if you get the chance) and here when you get back.

I would also suggest that a digital photo of those caught is taken and posted on this website/in the guide/on socking great banners to be put up around the sites the following year.

Rant over, still enjoyed it, and more determined than every to go back next year.

[BigH]

(hand them over avec bruises if you get the chance)

Ooh, take a bit of care though....
On the way back to our camp on Sunday morning about four-ish, I thought I'd drop in on the Liverpool boys, hoping for a late night cleansing ale. I have to admit to being very tiddly, and while I was standing in the dark next to their gazebo wondering what to do next, Mike C crept up behind me like Colonel Mustard on steroids complete with the lead piping and all ready to seperate me from what was left of my brains. Luckily he recognised me, and when I heard "Oh, it's you H!", and turned round to see him I nearly feinted from fright. We had a good laugh once he brought me round...
Can we hire him for next year?
H

[Philip]

Two guys had been caught and beaten before they escaped, and in this case it would seem they were English.

That really does disappoint me - I really wouldn't have imagined that it could be anyone other than the local scrotes and gypsies.

It certainly makes you wonder about the mentality of some people - happy to organise and pay to travel down, to presumably camp next to people happy to share a few beers with them, and then happy to steal from them.

Perhaps I'm a little naive, but how do they sleep at night? (Well obviously, they don't - they break into tents).

[mike(liverpool boys)]

f**k me where do I start. I was on MB with the Liverpool boys and we had 4 incidents first was clothes and passports on the friday night. Next was saturday night where 2 were caught mooching around my gear in 2 seperate incidents. one got some real estate giving to him when Brian kicked him in the balls and gave him a couple of acres and he ran of. The next incident they had hold of the lad and Mike tried to dislocate his jaw with a big right hook. He then done off only to discover that he had ransacked a neighbouring parties tent and had his wallet with cards, money etc. On Sunday morning we returned from Arnage to be told by our next door neighbour that he had just chased someone trying to open the awning on Mike C's camper and was already being chased by anther camper for nicking stuff. Oh and when I packed away someone had nicked my electric cool box and a 1/3 of a box of wine. So for next  year, top of the shopping list is a baseball bat. Any one gets caught will have to empty pockets. They will then be cable tied to a chair with their clothes cut off and Campsite thief written in permemnent marker pen all over them. And when he's sat on public view, please take time to empty your piss bucket over him. f**k*ng handjobs know how to spoil a good week

Nice rant stu  i have to say i agree with the cable tie method but i think we should add in brians bollock kicking routine aswell just for good measure  the scumbag minority and the crap weather put a bot of a downer on my le mans this year but it was still a blast. bring on 08

[Steve Pyro]

.... I think locking stuff in the car has to be the way forward but what needs to be worked on is somewhere safe to keep keys whilst we are sleeping.  I am really worried about blipping the car open if I put the keys in my sleeping bag or under a pillow. 

Lock you valuables away in your car.  Put the keys in a small tobacco tin or plastic box, big enough to protect and not to press the central locking buttons, then stash the box well down into your sleeping bag with you - QED.