First Aston Martin, now Jaguar and Land Rover for sale

[Steve Pyro]

Annouced today, Ford are to place Jaguar and Land Rover up for sale.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6743669.stm

[Big G]

 I believe that Ford have been looking to offload both Jaguar and Land Rover for quite a while now. They were even offering them as part of a package to try and sweeten the deal to prospective Aston buyers. Jag has been haemoraging money for Ford for a long time and the only thing keeping the PAG group afloat has been LR ......and Volvo Can't say the militant workforce helps much when trying to attract buyers tho!

[Big G]

Oh and it was last year that the president of Ford was quoted as saying he couldn't see where Jag fitted into the next generation of Ford products and had no idea what to do with it, so the writting was on the wall back then. Amazing how people see it as a surprise that they now choose to offload them.

[geoffd]

I presume there will be a queue for Land Rover,  but Jaguar???  hmmmm oh look I have some loose change on my desk.....

So only Volvo will be left in PAG,   oh dear,  bet they are getting scared in Sweden.......

[badgered1]

It would be nice to see Jaguar back in British hands because of the history. I don't think Jaguar can be on it's own. As for Land Rover, it's always been a money maker with lower production numbers. They have been the basterd child of the automotive world for years. I wish they could go it alone or be bought by a company that will stand by it and run it for more than 5 years. I've been involved with Land Rovers for 32 years and this issue is always a hot topic on bullitin boards. I don't know who would be the best to purchase Land Rover yet, but I know that Ford has not run it well.

Sew on and sew on....
Chris
Badger Coachworks USA

[alibongo]

Could this mean that Ford would maybe enter a car or two once again at L/M? would be nice....

[lynxd67]

Though I have several Jaguars and write articles for Jaguar magazines, I have oft wondered where the future, if any, of Jaguar lies. Sales of big cars are shrinking especially petrol engined ones, and the established brand makes such as Audi (who weren't so highly regarded 20 years back but have done wonders with their advertising and quality control) BMW and Mercedes are the makes that sell. Toyota went about it the right way and created a ruthlessly efficient and reliable new marque, Lexus. A Jaguar is still regarded as an up market Ford and as we all know, the Scorpio didn't stay around long as a big Ford. VW bought Bentley and made it a success but how often do you see its clone, the Phaeton? People will pay £130,000 for the Bentley badge but a used diesel Phaeton is £25,000 or less than half price. The X type has for me been one of the mysteries of all time in that Jaguars have traditionally sold with an auto box but you can have a Mondeo diesel auto and not an X type diesel auto. Sheer plain stupidity. I wonder how many sales they lost because of that? Oh, and why 4WD but not in the diesel which has more torque?

I don't question the commitment of the Whitley engineering centre but it must be disheartening to be so controlled from Dearborn. Some years back they were all but signing off a new model when a new top Ford boss scrapped it and wanted a complete redesign. The S type, great car though it is, is mostly percieved (I wish to hurt no ones feelings here) as an older persons car but not a BMW 5 series, it's competitor. The XJ6 just doesn't have the luggage room of the S clas Merc or the Lexus (though the 7 series Beemer has gone down like a lead baloon) yet is a very capable car, especially in diesel form.

No, it is down to image and Ford have managed it very badly from the outset. Putting Jaguar into Formula 1 with a budget of $150 million and then wondering why it wasn't a success when Ferrari were putting in $700 million for example, but even more stupid in that Jaguar's history is here in the Sarthe. Yet they chose to bring Aston Martin back to endurance racing not Jaguar in the end. Plain bloody stupid thinking. Are you going to sell more Jaguars at £60,000 or Aston's at £120,000? Then of course they sold Aston.

Sadly, even though there are reputedly several venture capital firms queuing up to buy, I really can't see a market share for Jaguar in what is going to be a shrinking market place. Moreover, I see the spectre of MG/Rover all over again in the end. The only name that has a possible future for me is Landrover, but would one stand the torture Clarkson put a Hilux through? Let us continue to hope for the future of the makes if only for the jobs that are on the line.

[ewan]

A seemingly well-informed analyst on BBC Breakfast yesterday summed it all up nicely: Jaguar have been losing Ford money for years, and the parent company's in such deep sh!t financially, that they've been looking to sell anything that will give them a capital return, for a while now. Trouble is, Jag is basically worthless: even though Ford have put $bns into the company to buy it in the 80s and keep it afloat since, nobody would pay them any money for it. Hence why they're looking to sell LR as part of the package...

Now you could imagine a few possible suitors thinking that they'd like LR, and if Ford will only sell it if they agree to take Jag as well, they might be able to be contractually obliged to keep Jaguar alive for some period. But I can't see anyone being desperate for Jaguar... unless it was one of the marques which doesn't have a strong presence in the luxury saloon/GT market, and maybe would like some additional strength in the 4x4 area through the purchase on LR too. Subaru, maybe?

It looks like JLR might end up in the hands of a John Moulton/Alchemy Partners type asset stripper (sorry, private equity venture capitalist), some far east aspirant a la MG Rover/Nanjing, or one of the big boys buys it for Land Rover and who knows what they'll do with Jaguar. It seems a pity: the XK/R looks to be doing well, and the saloon prototype XF they've been toting round has been getting a positive reaction. The trouble with Jaguar is, they don't have a USP any more - the big German saloons do it better these days (I have an Audi A8, which is sublime), they were late to the diesel party (which still hasn't really taken off in the US, yet Jaguar's share over there is in decline... maybe the cost is too high) and they have nothing on the cards viz hybrid/fuel cell etc, at least not far enough advanced that a rival marque would acquire them just for that technology.

[Big G]

The biggest problem Jaguar have as a supposed volume manufacturer (which is what their business model is based on) is that they have no entry model to draw in young buyers. BMW has several entry level models, so does Mercedes, Audi and every other premium brand manufacturer. Bentley, Aston et al can get by without entry level models as their business models are based on small volume niche products selling at high prices, however quite small profit margins.
Back in 2001/2 we were working on the design for the lights on a new 'F' type. It was to be a 'small' 2 seater sports car, (think Z4, SLK)and was gorgeous. Just what Jaguar needed to bring in younger buyers, and if priced right would have sold bucket loads. However it was canned at the end of the design phase due to budgets. They did however plough on with the X-type tho!!! 

[ewan]

Back in 2001/2 we were working on the design for the lights on a new 'F' type. It was to be a 'small' 2 seater sports car, (think Z4, SLK)and was gorgeous.

I remember. In fact, I would have bought one if they had managed to get it out for the supposed £30k mark.

As it happens, I bought a new Mondeo Ghia X at the end of 2001, and someone who had been test driving an X-Type at the same time said they thought the Mondeo had a better interior, and we all know what lay underneath the X-Type anyway

[20vmk2_dub]

Hope Jaguar survives and can maybe fly the flag for british racing again.... it deserves to.