Save The Red Arrows!!!

[Nobby Diesel]

I know many people dislike these petitions, but if you can find the time, please sign this one.

I know there are a few on here with a closer than most, connection to The Red Arrows.

Thanks.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

[wishy]

I would be a great shame to see them disappear from the sky's due to another batch of government cutbacks......the next thing they will probably disband will be the army and air cadets as well......oh and our armed forces!!!!!

Done!

[Perdu]

Done

Are these people really dedicated to destroying ALL forms of excellence in our society?

Disgusted of Streetly

 

[smokie]

.... disband .... our armed forces!!!!!

Done!

I think that's already well advanced. Many support services are now PFId, or well on their way to being so.

[Martini...LB]

Hi
I have done it for myself and the missus. We are very fortunate to see an air display in the Channel Islands every year, which includes the Red Arrows. We are also top money raisers per capita.

Will also send the link to the local paper.

>Martini...

[Chris24]

I have signed it, but if i had a choice years ago, I would have dropped the Red Arrows to fund the last flying Vulcan instead.

In fact they could have paid for the repairs to be carried out on XH558 so she could have continued flying with the RAF Vulcan display flight for what it costs the RAF to operate the 10th and largely unseen back up Red Arrows Hawk for a year.

That was a no brainer for me, but we all know what happened with the Vulcan display flight.

[Jason]

Chris the 10th Red Arrow is a spare so that for any display they can fly the famous Diamond9.

The thing is the Red's are reviewed every year.

[Christopher]

Done.

And now being dense.....but what is PFId?

[Stu]

As the collective noun goes, what a wunch of bankers. From a government who can't estimate the cost of anything they do and waste billions. I'd quite happily kick Tony Blair and his brown nosers until my foot fell off. I also signed one yesterday at the same site against the roadpricing/car tracking. I'll not be signing the 'Replace the National Anthem with Spandau Ballets Gold' though.

[Stu]

Done.

And now being dense.....but what is PFId?

PFI is Private Finance Initiative. For example, the fire station where I work which the Local Authority owned, was knocked down and rebuilt in the same place and is now rented from Jarvis for 25 years. Ends up costing a fortune and the companies make vast amounts. The new M6 toll road is PFI over 25 years and the road has now been paid for in 3 years by the tolls generated. So virtually 22 years of pure profit are now left for the builders instead of the Government.

[Christopher]

Done.

And now being dense.....but what is PFId?

PFI is Private Finance Initiative. For example, the fire station where I work which the Local Authority owned, was knocked down and rebuilt in the same place and is now rented from Jarvis for 25 years. Ends up costing a fortune and the companies make vast amounts. The new M6 toll road is PFI over 25 years and the road has now been paid for in 3 years by the tolls generated. So virtually 22 years of pure profit are now left for the builders instead of the Government.

Thanks for the explanation......but if it ends up costing more in the long term......why do it?

[mgmark]

Long may they continue to grace the skies and fire the imagination of young and old alike.

At the risk of opening a debate about the relative merits of the Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Patrouille de France and the Frecce Tricolori, the Reds are, in the words of the Tina Turner song - simply the best, better than all the rest.....so sign up.....please. 

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/gallery.html

MG Mark

[smokie]

Thanks for the explanation......but if it ends up costing more in the long term......why do it?

Because it's the only way that governments can make ends meet now. They sold off all the "state industries" during the Thatcher days to raise money, some went for a song. Maybe the most obvious was privatisation of the rail service, which is already costing the taxpayer an arm and a leg in subsidies to the operating companies. They have no industries left to sell, so they are selling other state owned assets and renting them back at vastly inflated costs (e.g. the HM Revenue and Customs real estate was sold to an offshore company), or getting private companies to build new hospitals then leasing them back. That way, capital projects (hospitals/schools etc) can be initiated now, which is what they want/need, and paid for later. In the services, and I stand to be corrected, many of the logistics operations and other ancillary operations are now carried out by private companies (e.g Halcrow move tanks, ALL services training is about to be handed to a private company). There are some very dodgy accountancy processes whereby a new PFI project is justified (versus maintaining the status quo). The real costs of PFI kick in later, so in years to come 1) the state will own no assets and 2) there will be an enormous debt burden to sustain. However it's all Good Stuff for the Chancellor, as the cost of PFIs somehow goes off the balance sheet and therefore keeps government debt below the magic 40% of GDP (currently £35bn is "off balance sheets", and rising). Many hospitals are having to lay off staff and defer other projects in order to service their PFI debts. And lastly as an example, the HM R&C deal mentioned above was initially costed at £1.5bn, over 20 years. It's recently been confirmed that it will now cost £3.4bn, before inflation. No wonder there is a healthy market in buying and selling existing PFI deals.

btw I am no expert on this stuff. I'm sure there is another side to the argument, and I this is not anti-Labour - the Tories started PFI.

I really should get out more...

[Stu]

Thanks for the explanation......but if it ends up costing more in the long term......why do it?

Because it's the only way that governments can make ends meet now. They sold off all the "state industries" during the Thatcher days to raise money, some went for a song. Maybe the most obvious was privatisation of the rail service, which is already costing the taxpayer an arm and a leg in subsidies to the operating companies. They have no industries left to sell, so they are selling other state owned assets and renting them back at vastly inflated costs (e.g. the HM Revenue and Customs real estate was sold to an offshore company), or getting private companies to build new hospitals then leasing them back. That way, capital projects (hospitals/schools etc) can be initiated now, which is what they want/need, and paid for later. In the services, and I stand to be corrected, many of the logistics operations and other ancillary operations are now carried out by private companies (e.g Halcrow move tanks, ALL services training is about to be handed to a private company). There are some very dodgy accountancy processes whereby a new PFI project is justified (versus maintaining the status quo). The real costs of PFI kick in later, so in years to come 1) the state will own no assets and 2) there will be an enormous debt burden to sustain. However it's all Good Stuff for the Chancellor, as the cost of PFIs somehow goes off the balance sheet and therefore keeps government debt below the magic 40% of GDP (currently £35bn is "off balance sheets", and rising). Many hospitals are having to lay off staff and defer other projects in order to service their PFI debts. And lastly as an example, the HM R&C deal mentioned above was initially costed at £1.5bn, over 20 years. It's recently been confirmed that it will now cost £3.4bn, before inflation. No wonder there is a healthy market in buying and selling existing PFI deals.

btw I am no expert on this stuff. I'm sure there is another side to the argument, and I this is not anti-Labour - the Tories started PFI.

I really should get out more...

Summed up perfectly Smokie. Apart from  it was the Tories idea and they did'nt do one PFI deal. It was Labour who changed the legislation to allow the deals to be done.
Now thats enough political stuff for today, cue up the Dambusters March on the record deck and lets keep those Red Arrows Flying.

[Doris]

Long may they continue to grace the skies and fire the imagination of young and old alike.

At the risk of opening a debate about the relative merits of the Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Patrouille de France and the Frecce Tricolori, the Reds are, in the words of the Tina Turner song - simply the best, better than all the rest.....so sign up.....please. 

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/gallery.html

MG Mark

Indeed they are the best Mark. 

I saw the Patrouille Suisse at the Klausenrennen back in September and their show was poor by comparison.  I have to say though, when they flew in right over our heads it was pretty cool.   

Petition signed and forwarded to others who do not frequent these pages...

Dx