Swan or Kestral?

[mgmark]

funny old world, when the F 15 Eagle first came over to the UK they were always spouting off about its 1:1 thrust to weight ratio and how marvellous it was, I think it was at RAF Mildenhall, just prior to the Farnborough Air Show and the USAF/McDonnell Douglas team were getting in a right old lather about its unique properties, a relation of mine started chatting about his time with 56 Sqn and how they had be doing all that for the best part of 25 years with the Lightning.

The Lossiemouth one was an epic in watching American jaws drop on the flight line, which was near the runway threshold.  It had arisen as a challenge from the night before in the bar, when the F-14 drivers had been taking the p*ss out of the leaky old Lightnings sat on the pan next to them during a major exercise.  The Lightning guys (from 11 Sqn I think) did not rise to the bait, but just suggested a "last to 60k buys the beers" the following morning.  The older American hands there, who knew what would happen, played along and "encouraged" their youngsters.   Of course, the crowd on the pan the next morning was of epic propoprtions.  The Lightning guys egged it on by suggesting that they "wouldn't want to get in the way of the F-14s", so would give them a 30-second start......cue the F-14s taking off and departing in a reasonably spectacular fashion, followed the the Lightnings winding up on the brakes engaging reheat and rolling - as they did so, rotated and went vertically up, the assembled younger Americans  jaws just hit the deck.   You know the picture and sound.   The radio call as the Lightnings passed the F-14s at 35k was "byeeee.....", although in true Lightning fashion, it was followed a few miutes after levelling out at 60k or thereabouts, with the throttles back to idle and a call of "fuel priority to land"

Another picture attached - because it's nice and it's of a glorious aircraft - from the days when we did because we could - the famous 22-ship Hunter loop.

MG Mark

[nickliv]

Concorde, because we could do it and no one else managed to.

However I was once on the flightdeck of Concorde after the FO had given us a very condescending lecture about how they were always to be treated as a priority, never sent to the hold etc. He said

'And, as you can see, the cockpit is a little cramped'

I replied

'Yes, it's a wonder you and the captain can get your heads in at the same time'

However, there will always be a place in my heart for one of these

[Ferrari Spider]

Nik that looks like Duxford?

[Jay (Team Cannonball)]

Just a note to say I'm really enjoying this thread.

My vote went for the Spitfire, purely because if it hadn't existed it is very unlikely that Concorde would have.

Both awesome machines.

[Boorish Grobian]

Fran,
I can't say for certain but I think the bloke was referring to the cost of developing and maintaining it relative to the numbers built.  They always say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and of course national pride invariably creeps in.
As a said, I've always found the Spitfire lovely, the Concorde a bit awkward looking especially with the nose drooped.  But what the hell, I find the A-10 Warthog pretty and most aviation buffs will say it has a face only a mother could love.  I'm with Steve, the Mustang (and Spider it was a fine airplane as designed, just needed a lump with more grunt than the original unit.  The British Rolls filled the role nicely).
Of contemporary aircraft, the F-16 Falcon is as pretty as they come.
Fax

[Fran]

Ahh - thanks for the explanation Fax - usually when people refer to paying a big price for something they mean they died for it.... and I was under the impression that other than the one accident in Paris (I think) there were no fatal crashes - hence my confusion!   

For civil aircraft I love the old Comets and VC10 - my dad used to fly them for BOAC and I have happy memories of going to pick him up at Heathrow with my mum after his long trips away and looking up as we were driving there trying to find which one he was flying... ahh bless!    I used to be a dab hand at plane spotting when I was a kid.

F

[garyfrogeye]

Urban myth, true or not, but I was once told that mile for mile, the London underground is more expensive to travel on that Concord was.
Makes you think!

[Ferrari Spider]

Urban myth, true or not, but I was once told that mile for mile, the London underground is more expensive to travel on that Concord was.
Makes you think!

Quite so, the same had been said about the Lymington to Yarmouth ferry, at the time 20 squid return to go less than eight miles!

[mgmark]

1) I can't say for certain but I think the bloke was referring to the cost of developing and maintaining it relative to the numbers built. 

2) I find the A-10 Warthog pretty and most aviation buffs will say it has a face only a mother could love.

3) I'm with Steve, the Mustang (and Spider it was a fine airplane as designed, just needed a lump with more grunt than the original unit.  The British Rolls filled the role nicely).

4)  Of contemporary aircraft, the F-16 Falcon is as pretty as they come.
Fax

Fax Mk II - Hurrah! Welcome back!

1) The costs of Concorde went through multiple sets of smoke and mirrors, from the original development costs, to the transfer of the aircraft and spares to British Airways, privatisation etc etc - suffice to say the tax payer underwrote bucket loads over the life of it.  But it was worth it.

2) A10 - pretty, maybe in a blind mother's eye, but what a gun!

3) A fine aircraft as designed, except for the engine - but then redesigned to take a decent engine..... ..... designed by the brits....... (cheap shot but irresistible!)

4) Yes - never forget seeing an F-16 square loop on take off, within around 2-3000ft height, when the first one visited Bruggen in the early 80's.  A 30 degree per second+ turn rate.   Nose authority in spades.  Awesome.  Particularly at that time, when we had...hmmm...the Jaguar and Buccaneer.    And we are just getting Eurofighter/Typhoon.

Mind you, sad to see the F-14 is now in retirement.   

MG Mark

[Perdu]

Well I have been busy or I'd have been here ages ago.  (Things you have to do for club members some times!)

I voted for the Spitfire 'cos I grew up knowing my dad loved the ones he worked on.

Howeever the Concorde will always have a special place here too.

I'm very much a de Havilland fan too, at the Turweston fly in a couple of weeks ago there were three beautiful Chipmunks, two in the old time 1960s Silver/Yellow striped Training Command colours that made my heart stop for a second. Took me back to 1962 and my first ATC camp and  "303 chip air exp 25m" I can still recall the first smell of flying helmet and mask even now.

So for God's sake don't open up the vote, please.

[smokie]

Talking of aircraft Peter, has your stealth bomber been Smoked or did you remove it ?

Not me, I haven't been around. Steve is probably right.

[Boorish Grobian]

MG, big thanks and yes, agree with you on all points.
Also agreed, sad to see the Tomcat retired, BUT! Talk about expensive to maintain?!
I think I read somewhere when the news came down that the F-14 was being taken out of servce that it was six times more expensive to operate and maintain than the F-18 Hornet, nuff said.  It was a lovely, big, fast bird but designed to fight a enemy that no longer exist.
But Wow!  The sound of those two big GE's on full afterburn....Still makes the hair on the back of my  neck stand up.
Fax

[mgmark]

MG, big thanks and yes, agree with you on all points.
Also agreed, sad to see the Tomcat retired, BUT! Talk about expensive to maintain?!
I think I read somewhere when the news came down that the F-14 was being taken out of servce that it was six times more expensive to operate and maintain than the F-18 Hornet, nuff said.  It was a lovely, big, fast bird but designed to fight a enemy that no longer exist.
But Wow!  The sound of those two big GE's on full afterburn....Still makes the hair on the back of my  neck stand up.
Fax

Fax - agreed lots of ooomph and, at the time, lots funky toys with the Phoenix.   And of course it had the cachet of being the featured in Top Gun.   Proof below that beauty of sorts can sometimes be seen even in an F-15, just with a very well-taken photograph, shared freely on another forum by someone who enjoys climbing Welsh hillsides and photography, with the talent to be in the right place at the right time in the right weather with the right equipment.   The only thing missing is the sound........

MG Mark   

[mgmark]

and a second one just for good measure.....

[mgmark]

with the photo this time.......