Spyker to buy Midland F1

[Pieter]

Well, Lost Boys is involved, McGregor will probably do some sponsorship (same owner as Spyker, Victor Muller) and perhaps a big Dutch company is interested. Victor Muller knows his way around in the world of finance; he got the Arabs to invest in Spyker anyway.

[Andy Zarse]

Actually, Matt, personally I love them and do covert one!  Those looks, that noise, the pricetag.  But I know many people on the forum "poo-poo" American muscle cars and no doubt Mr Zarse for one would engage in a lively slanging match (sorry, debate) on this subject. 

Quite the opposite, the Vette C6 is a fine car, the ZO6 even more so and bang for buck it's a terrific proposition nd it's acceptable to be lenient on the quality of some of the the fixtures and fittings (except for the transverse leaf spring rear suspension, although to be fair its changed to carbon fibre so it's now a hi-tech 16th century idea!).

No, it's that filthy Dodge STR Viper thing I hate with a passion. Have a look at the Top Gear Power laps, it's quite illuminating:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps.shtml

This so-called "supercar" get's it's ass whooped by a bloody Porsche Gayman ferchistsakes. If only it did what it said on the tin, unless of course the tin says "All mouth and no trousers". I don't suppose the Spyker wears trousers.

[Matt Harper]

At risk of opening this all up again, when it was pretty well hammered flat - Andrew Zarse's reference (codswallop that it is) would suggest - and presumably the eponymous Mr Zee agrees, since he brought this up, that the Viper SRT-10 is therefore a finer car than:

Porsche 911 Turbo and Carrera S
BMW Z8 and M3
Aston Martin DB7 GT and Vanquish
Benzo CL65 and AMG SL55
Ferrari 575
Audi S4

Now, let's compare price tags again, shall we? How much is a SL55 or a 911T - it's just slipped my mind

Andrew, have a word with yourself, old bean. Yet again, I call bollox on ya!

[rcutler]

The only cars on that list that I wouldn't want before a Viper are:-

BMW Z8 (I don't want to look like a hairdresser)
BMW M3 (Just buy the M5 and get a really good car!)

So my order from the list would be:-

Aston Martin Vanquish
Aston Martin DB7 GT
Benzo SL55
Benzo CL65
Ferrari 575
Porsche 911 Turbo
Porsche Carrera S
Audi S4
VIPER SRT-10

Will never buy though:-

BMW M3
BMW Z8

Go on Zarse have go if you think your hard enough!

[Andy Zarse]

At risk of opening this all up again, when it was pretty well hammered flat - Andrew Zarse's reference (codswallop that it is) would suggest - and presumably the eponymous Mr Zee agrees, since he brought this up, that the Viper SRT-10 is therefore a finer car than:

Porsche 911 Turbo and Carrera S
BMW Z8 and M3
Aston Martin DB7 GT and Vanquish
Benzo CL65 and AMG SL55
Ferrari 575
Audi S4

Now, let's compare price tags again, shall we? How much is a SL55 or a 911T - it's just slipped my mind

Andrew, have a word with yourself, old bean. Yet again, I call bollox on ya!

Matt, a cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Anyway, I guess this is all a bit subjective, but here's my opinion on the cars you mention :

911 turbo - totally baffled by that one, as indeed by the Vanquish which probably conked out half way round.

Carrera S - it says was done in very wet conditions, so knock 10% off it's wet lap time and it becomes very competitive.

M3 is a glorified German Cortina and costs about two thirds as much as the SRT. Having said that, the M3CSL beats the Viper by 0.5sec and it's a just standard M3 with a bit of weight removed, which probably points to the standard car being a bit too fat and refined for the track (great road weapon though). Unlike a TVR, a Dodge (just marvel at the magic in that name) or any other crappy jerry-built plastic vehicles, it wont roast your right leg on the transmission tunnel, drop to pieces, set fire to itself etc etc etc.

Z8 and DB7 are old men's cars for wafting around, not proper GTs, Benz's likewise but to a lesser extent.

575 is pretty old fashioned, it's now been replaced and I would like to know what the new one would clock the curcuit in.

Audi S4, really a road going estate car and I would venture to suggest on real roads it would show a clean pair of heals to most of the other vehicles on the TG board, certainly the hopeless SRT wouldn't see which way it went.

Most of the car's prices you mention are in the area of the SRT, so can't really understand your point. Ok so an SL55 AMG is more. So what, the SRT et al get's destroyed by the cheaper Ariel Atom, Exige S, TVR Sagaris and other cheaper cars? So your point is what, precisely?

Finally, in our last debate, where we unanimously decided that the Dodgey was the pinnacle of motoring excellence, you expressed incredulity that the product methods of the Daimler Chrysler empire had anything in common with the way TVRs are screwed together. On reflection, I would I would ask whether the build quality and fit and finish of the Dodgey has anything in common with a Merc SL? It's still the biggest waste of £65,000 known to man.

I love our little chats.

[termietermite]

I love our little chats.

As do we all.

[Andy Zarse]

The only cars on that list that I wouldn't want before a Viper are:-

BMW Z8 (I don't want to look like a hairdresser)
BMW M3 (Just buy the M5 and get a really good car!)

So my order from the list would be:-

Aston Martin Vanquish
Aston Martin DB7 GT
Benzo SL55
Benzo CL65
Ferrari 575
Porsche 911 Turbo
Porsche Carrera S
Audi S4
VIPER SRT-10

Will never buy though:-

BMW M3
BMW Z8

Go on Zarse have go if you think your hard enough!

Rick, I largely agree with you except the DB7 is well out of date (XJS bits, you see). I would swap the M3 (a very fine driving machine with a slight "tosser" image) with the SRT which I would not cross the road to urinate upon if, sorry I mean when, it catches fire.

[rcutler]

Yes andy I sort of agree but I really don't want to look like tosser in the M3 and the Viper SRT-10's need major mods to make them road legal here as they make way too much noise. There are very few SRT-10's in the UK so I would rather be and individual fool then a tosser.

Plus I doubt very much I will ever get to own all the cars above the SRT-10, so I will never be in the position to buy one!

BTW, a DB7 was a supercar when I was at Primary School so one of those cars I would that I will always look back on, they are still also very rare.

[Matt Harper]

 Anyway, I guess this is all a bit subjective, but here's my opinion on the cars you mention :

Hang on a second, Andy - this lot was your point of reference, not mine. In fairness, it was you who drew our attention to this supposedly authoritive league table. All I have done is highlight some bloody nice cars that rank lower in YOUR reference than the Viper - so I'd say my point is quite clear.
By your logic, the SRT-10 is a more accomplished car than a Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG - and a Porsche 911 Turbo - your list , not mine.

I think the price comparison may be slighly irrelevant - and I only have access to US pricing, without getting all anal about it and searching UK sites, which I frankly can't be arsed to do.

Finally, love 'em or loathe 'em (and I do neither) the Viper is hand built by Chrysler SRT division - it's not a Benzo, granted - but it ain't a Stratus or a Charger either.

Let it lie.

[Matt Harper]

A minor adjuct to all this.... it's Labor Day weekend here in the land of the free (or is it brave?) I just got back from the boozer - the venerable Fish on Fire, on Lonesome Corner (known to a couple of last year's Sebringwallers).
Well there's this dude who drinks there, kinda regular like, who looks the spit of Richard Petty, who goes by the name of Turbo. Now, Turbo's a regular Florida cracker type - likes Jimmy Buffet, got a big coon hound named Daphne and who's regular ride is a Ford F350, all jacked-up to hell like a monster truck.
He's been telling me for months that he's got a '70 Challenger in the shop, that he blowed the motor all to smitherines and has been working on since before Pontius was a pilot. I have always nodded politely, figuring he was full of it.
Well tonight he showed up at the FoF in that ol' Dodge.
It has been my good fortune to own/drive a fair selection of American muscle in my time, so when he offered me a spin (initially shotgun, but then at the helm) I figured I'd got it all figured out.
Uh, huh. No way Jose. Not never , no how.
This old bruiser flattened my eyeballs. I didn't drive it, I hung on for dear life and cried like a schoolgirl.
383ci stroker - Crane roller-rocker/Moroso long-tubes/Holley Dominator, 3500 high-stall, Dana spool - the forking works. They don't make 'em like thi Mopar Monster anymore (well, untill 2007 anyway).
The graphic on the trunk deck said it all - "Does not play well with others".
Viper - Schmiper, those Cuda's n' challengers are and were the sh*t.
I want one.

[Fax]

Hmm, should'a seen what Dan Gurney and his boys at AAR did with Barracuda's.  Made for a couple of bad-ass fish in the Pony Car Wars (Trans-Am).  Gurney and Swede Savage peddled them with a skilled & deft touch.
Fax

[Andy Zarse]

A minor adjuct to all this.... it's Labor Day weekend here in the land of the free (or is it brave?) I just got back from the boozer - the venerable Fish on Fire, on Lonesome Corner (known to a couple of last year's Sebringwallers).
Well there's this dude who drinks there, kinda regular like, who looks the spit of Richard Petty, who goes by the name of Turbo. Now, Turbo's a regular Florida cracker type - likes Jimmy Buffet, got a big coon hound named Daphne and who's regular ride is a Ford F350, all jacked-up to hell like a monster truck.
He's been telling me for months that he's got a '70 Challenger in the shop, that he blowed the motor all to smitherines and has been working on since before Pontius was a pilot. I have always nodded politely, figuring he was full of it.
Well tonight he showed up at the FoF in that ol' Dodge.
It has been my good fortune to own/drive a fair selection of American muscle in my time, so when he offered me a spin (initially shotgun, but then at the helm) I figured I'd got it all figured out.
Uh, huh. No way Jose. Not never , no how.
This old bruiser flattened my eyeballs. I didn't drive it, I hung on for dear life and cried like a schoolgirl.
383ci stroker - Crane roller-rocker/Moroso long-tubes/Holley Dominator, 3500 high-stall, Dana spool - the forking works. They don't make 'em like thi Mopar Monster anymore (well, untill 2007 anyway).
The graphic on the trunk deck said it all - "Does not play well with others".
Viper - Schmiper, those Cuda's n' challengers are and were the sh*t.
I want one.

If only I knew what all this meant, it's like a foreign language to me, I just can't fathom it; first it's a load of seeming nonsense about rock and rolling cranes and a dominatrix called Holly. Next we're onto the Pony Club Wars and a savage swede. Christ sake, I thought we were talking about cars here? Oh and I've had morose long tubes for several month and I can't see they're anything to get that exited about.

Anyway I've just got back from Goodwood, hob nobbing with some of the all time greats and generally having a nice time. In previous years it's never ceased to amuse me to watch well peddled Cooper S's and Lotus Cortinas hanging onto the skirt tales of the likes of Stingray's and 'Stangs and heaven knows what other 'abreviated V8 muscle cars, all this on one of the quickest power curcuits in the world. Some of those cars really do have far too high an opinion of they're own abilities don't they? I think the owners should give some serious consideration to fitting a steering wheel, it might help them go round corners a little faster, that and not making the body shell out papier mache, I reckon it would be a real help.

Anyway, Matt, I too had the pleasure of pilotting a wonderful american V8 car yesterday. It's possibly the finest AC Cobra replica currently in the UK (Steve Brown to confirm? it's the definitive car Nigel Dean built last year) It belongs to a good pal who wanted to see it down there but decided to take his Vanquish too and asked me to drive it down to the curcuit for him.  It packs a smallish block 357cu 350bhp stroking thing (before you hit the NOS switch which ups the game to about 600bhp) and it's also got a big aluminium scoopy air intake thingy shaped a bit like an upturned NHS bedpan, and which normally sits atop a dragster's supercharger. I'm sure it's got some trendy name but no idea what. Well the damn thing was so fast in a straight line it sucked the wallet clean out of my tweed jacket! Fortunately it was returned intact. Stuck in traffic the car was an utter abomination, I'd no idea such a torquy motor would have that much trouble in shifting 3/4 ton aluminium at 10mph. But out on the highway it was peerlessly fast and I had terrific fun in it, although the suspension was so rock hard on real UK roads and I don't think it would be much different to an SRT. My squeeze for the day also burnt her bare leg on the exhaust but fortunately being a bit tipsy she laughed it off. What a hoot!

Here it is:

[rcutler]

What's that on the cover?

Win a Dax Cobra worth £1,000?

[Andy Zarse]

What's that on the cover?

Win a Dax Cobra worth £1,000?

Have a read of the whole article Rick, goes on for about ten pages. I like the NOS moment. Jesus H Christ at Bonneville, you better hang onto your hat!

http://www.daxcars.co.uk/tojeriobuild/part1.htm

[Andy Zarse]

 Anyway, I guess this is all a bit subjective, but here's my opinion on the cars you mention :

Hang on a second, Andy - this lot was your point of reference, not mine. In fairness, it was you who drew our attention to this supposedly authoritive league table. All I have done is highlight some bloody nice cars that rank lower in YOUR reference than the Viper - so I'd say my point is quite clear.
By your logic, the SRT-10 is a more accomplished car than a Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG - and a Porsche 911 Turbo - your list , not mine.

I think the price comparison may be slighly irrelevant - and I only have access to US pricing, without getting all anal about it and searching UK sites, which I frankly can't be arsed to do.

Finally, love 'em or loathe 'em (and I do neither) the Viper is hand built by Chrysler SRT division - it's not a Benzo, granted - but it ain't a Stratus or a Charger either.

Let it lie.

The Dodge has a singular and sole purpose in life: to go down the road as fast as possible. The other cars mainly have other purposes/compromises, i.e. to comfortably waft four people around Europe, have room for a dog in the back, etc etc. To my mind the Viper fails comprehensively in the one thing it sets out to acheive.

As for "Let it lie"... see Matt's contiguous post.