Ferrari vs Dodge

[Bob U]

Worth a look. Not sure if the crash at the end is staged though.

http://www.lookatentertainment.com/v/v-1853.htm

[Andy Zarse]

I'm not surprised it crashed.  Apart from this being a spectacularly bad piece of driving, the Viper (or SRT10 or whatever it's called these days) is one of the biggest loads of crap ever to turn a wheel.  Ill handling and spongy,  it has all the grip and roadholding of Torville and Dean skating on a Teflon coated ice rink.  It sums up everything I hate about this sort of car.  It is nothing but a badly built lashed-up heap of rubbish which flatters the recent efforts of TVR and moves contemporary car design forward not one single inch. Personally, I'm glad there is one less Viper in the world, although I hope the idiot driving it is ok but has learned his lesson.

[Steve Pyro]

I quite like Viper coupes 

[Matt Harper]

the Viper (or SRT10 or whatever it's called these days) is one of the biggest loads of crap ever to turn a wheel.  Ill handling and spongy,  it has all the grip and roadholding of Torville and Dean skating on a Teflon coated ice rink.  It sums up everything I hate about this sort of car.  It is nothing but a badly built lashed-up heap of rubbish which flatters the recent efforts of TVR and moves contemporary car design forward not one single inch.

Nice to see a measured, un-biased and thoughtful Zarsian critique for a change.
You are talking out of your stench-trench Andrew.
The current SRT-10 is smaller, lighter, more powerful and better equipped and constructed than it's predecessor. It also sells better today than it ever has done historically. It's racing record (particularly in North America) is to be admired and it is not usual for an ill handling, spongey and grip-less car to dominate a production based series. Whilst not everyone's cup of tea, the Viper SRT-10 does not deserve your hate-filled rantings. I call bollox on ya.

[Snoring Rhino]

I see Mclaren are working on a carbon fibre version - with improved handling and drivability - should be an interesting concept.

[Dave H]

I've driven a 97 GTS and found it horrifying in the handling department, thrilling in the torque and subsequent "at any point you press the gas pedal" acceleration department, and very rough in the comfort department.  It also needed to come with a telescope to see beyond the end of the hood.

Other than that it was T I T s!

[Jay (Team Cannonball)]

Have you driven a new Viper Andy?

[BigH]

I'm amazed they didn't have an accident earlier, they were on the wrong side of the road for almost the whole video!
I'd quite like one though. It'd be nice to paint it black and call it Edward.
H

(What sort of line was he aiming for on that corner?)

[Andy Zarse]

Nice to see a measured, un-biased and thoughtful Zarsian critique for a change.
You are talking out of your stench-trench Andrew.
The current SRT-10 is smaller, lighter, more powerful and better equipped and constructed than it's predecessor. It also sells better today than it ever has done historically. It's racing record (particularly in North America) is to be admired and it is not usual for an ill handling, spongey and grip-less car to dominate a production based series. Whilst not everyone's cup of tea, the Viper SRT-10 does not deserve your hate-filled rantings. I call bollox on ya.

It worked! What a wonderful Pavlovian reaction Matt, you showed all the blind faith and slavish devotion I expected when presented with a little fair criticism of a vehicle (any vehicle?) made in the USA. I'm not really sure how you can be so excoriating about the products of Blackpool or Hethel yet worship at the foot of such a piece of utter tat, a car which fails in so many similar ways to a contemporary TVR. So I'm calling bollox back at ya!

Oh, and don't quote the racing verions here, IIRC the LM cars ditched the hopelessly massive lorry engine installed in the road car (60bhp per liter - WOW - my lawn mower has a better bhp/ltr ratio!) and installed something a bit lighter and smaller which also allowed them to move the weight back nearer the back axle. The lorry engine is what ruins the handling on the road car. The rest of the car is a chuck-together embarrassment, even worse than a TVR. The dash and controls are stricly for those with a fetish for shiny brittle plastic and the dials would be considered low rent even if they were installed in a KIA Serato or a Daewoo Kalos (Daewoo's are called Chevrolets in the UK now, which kinda says summat, but that's for another day). At least TVR makes it's own switchgear and engine by hand.

Yes I understand the new one is better (it couldn't be any worse could it?) but can someone please explain what's so clever about strapping a massive engine into a rubbish chassis and charging US$115,000 for it. They are truely having a girraffe   and jolly good luck to them.

[Matt Harper]

Curses! Foiled again by Zarse's devilish cunning.
I'd feel admonished where it not for the fact that your response is so filled with inaccuracy, speculation and plain ignorance.
Firstly, I should state plainly that I am not a huge fan of the SRT-10 - though that is not to say it isn't a good (by good, I mean good value performance package) car. Save it with the old 'truck engine' lark. OK, so the original car used a casting that was originally for an iron diesel block - so what? The current all alloy motor produces more torque than any other vaguely accessible supercar.
I don't know what IIRC means - but please note that I was not referring to Le Mans spec Vipers, but to SCCA specifications (i.e. production based - so no space-frame etc) where they are dominant. Even the LM Oreca cars were competitive (and popular) back in the 90's at Le Mans - winning class 2 years on the bounce, so you're going to have to eat crow on that one, baldy.
I agree that the original car's interior was a cluster-f*ck and the new one isn't a whole lot better in the dash layout dept - but it cannot be descried as thrown together. It may well all come un-glued with time, as TVR's do, but not having owned one, it would be a little unreasonable to just guess that build quality is going to be suspect.
For the record, the SRT-10 engine is hand assembled (as is the rest of the car) and retails slightly less than $90,000 (to stay price par with the ZO6) Today $90k represents 50,000 pounds.
I confess that I am fond of some American cars. I think that the C5 and C6 Corvette are both very satisfactory for the money they cost. I also like the Pontiac GTO (Holden Monaro?) - the SRT-8 versions of the Charger and Chrysler 300 and the latest Saleen Mustang. That's all - nothing particularly unusual in that, is there? 

[Jay (Team Cannonball)]

IIRC = If I recall correctly.

[Andy Zarse]

I love our little chats mate!

In amongst all the glorious personal abuse, there are some glaring errors and omissions. Thus I comment as follows:

Firstly, I should state plainly that I am not a huge fan of the SRT-10 - though that is not to say it isn't a good (by good, I mean good value performance package) car. Save it with the old 'truck engine' lark. OK, so the original car used a casting that was originally for an iron diesel block - so what? The current all alloy motor produces more torque than any other vaguely accessible supercar.

Not a fan? You coulda fool me! Value performance package?? I'm choking! A Lotus Exige is a value performance package but this thing? Never! Nor is it a supercar by any definition that I understand the word; it's just a low slung Dodge RAM SRT10.

Is it not the same engine as from the SUV and which originally came out of a lorry? Anyway, it doesn't really matter, it's big enough to be a truck or tractor engine and surely that's the point. To be fair Matt, I was really talking about the older cars, versions 1 and 2. Anyway here's what EVO had to say about the latest SRT, I think EVO are generally considered a very fair mag. http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/52255/dodge_srt10.html

I don't know what IIRC means

If I remember correctly, IIRC means if I remember corectly.

Even the LM Oreca cars were competitive (and popular) back in the 90's at Le Mans - winning class 2 years on the bounce, so you're going to have to eat crow on that one, baldy.

The LM cars had a different engine, as I originally said,  so you're gonna have to nosh on some rook fricassee, tubby. (Sorry, rook's off.)

For the record, the SRT-10 engine is hand assembled (as is the rest of the car) and retails slightly less than $90,000 (to stay price par with the ZO6) Today $90k represents 50,000 pounds.

As you'll note above, the UK price is £77,500 which using your exchange rate is actually $140,000, and I think you'll agree that's quite a lot of money for a big bag of sh**te.

Oh and FWIW, I do like the CO6 but can't for the life of me understand why the Dodge is $50,000 more. For that money you could almost buy a ZO6 AND get a C6 with the change.

Finally, I note you still haven't answered my point about how this car and it's circumstances differ in any way from TVRs. Being a northern chap and having a passing resemblance to the Rt Hon John Prescott, I wonder if perhaps you two are related? Certainly you're being as closed-minded as him and his denials of wrong-doing over this mucky Texas businessman/big
casino business.

[Matt Harper]

Your debating technique is as flawed as your knowledge-base.
Simply re-stating your errors doesn't suddenly make them correct.
I'm unsure how many more times I have to state this, but, just in case there is any doubt whatsoever, I'm not a big fan of the SRT-10 and never have been. Please stop telling me what I like and don't like.
I think the EVO article pretty much told it like it is. Unless I misunderstood the author, he suggests that the car isn't appropriate for the UK environment - not that it is a poor car... or did I get it wrong again? I'm not sure I ever stated that I felt that the Viper was a good choice for British roads.
The 98 and 99 Oreca Vipers had an 8.1L V10 production based motor.
My apologies re UK pricing - check www.dodge.com/viper/htm for retail pricing. I cannot think where such a car could be acquired in UK - and be supported by a warranty that was worth a carrot.
Whatever gave you the impression that an SRT-10 was $50k MORE than a ZO6? Are you crazy? They're priced within a couple of hunderd bucks of each other - and while we're on the subjective subject of comparison between the Vette and Viper, what is it that you like about the ZO6 that you can't stand about the SRT-10 - both are designed to do the same job, albeit in a slightly different way - and pretty much do.
Finally - are you seriously suggesting that there are ANY parallels between Daimler Chrysler Corp and TVR - and the way they build cars - and subsequently market them? You strike me as an intelligent, though frequently irrational man - you simply cannot be serious.
Regarding Two-Jags, or whatever he's called these days, people say I look a little more like Brad Pitt than John Prescott - I did admire the way he slotted that guy who egged him a couple of years ago, but in every other sense, he's a crook, just like the rest of 'em. Never, ever, ever trust anyone from Humberside, that's been my mantra and it's not let me down so far.   

[hgb]

I love this thread. 

[Andy Zarse]

Your debating technique is as flawed as your knowledge-My apologies re UK pricing - check www.dodge.com/viper/htm for retail pricing. I cannot think where such a car could be acquired in UK - and be supported by a warranty that was worth a carrot.

Well I thought I might try the Horsham Car Centre. They're the local Dodge dealership and it's only a mile and a half down the road from my office. I'm pretty sure they offer a manuf's warranty too. http://www.dodge.co.uk/dodge/vehicle.aspx?ID=769,22

Dodge seem to have reduced the UK price down to £69,990 which still equates to $126,000. I only quoted US dollars so you didn't have to do the maths. Sorry for the confusion, but I reckon $126,000 is despartely expensive for this sort of car. It should really be priced in TVR territory. To sum up,  it's an over-powered, poorly handling, piece of plastic crap with no build quality. And I bet the hood leaks too. Call me irrational if you will, but logically, I cannot see it's really any different to TVR except that it's more expensive and for your £70k you get white dials like off a moped.