Radio Le Mans 2006 - A Reply

[Kpy]

How much money do we pay for Radio Le Mans as  listeners well in case we have forgotten it is free. The cost is nil,nowt,zero it was set up to provide a free service to us the Le mans spectators at the track and has evolved into what we have today.

I could understand the bitching and negative remarks and comments if we were paying subscribers but we are not. The service is free unlike the BBC, Sky and all the other different medias. I am sure that changes will be made for next year with or without our comments.

 Maybe we should all pay a licence fee just for the Le Mans weekend then you could pay your weekend subscription or maybe not bother to listen. Then if it did not meet everyones high standards of preference we could all vote with our feet. Not going to happen but get my point?

The service is "free" just as all commercial radio stations are "free".
I'm quite happy to vote with my feet. The fact that RLM is "free" doesn't oblige me to listen to it. I'll let the content decide.
So roll on next year and the changes arising from the constructive criticism  .

[Piglet]

everyone seems to have turned into nodding donkeys in the face of your post

Thats a bit harsh BigH.

It may also be that those people who are quite happy with RLM simply didnt get involved in the earlier critical thread and have now decided to put in their penn'orth for a more constructive approach.   

Likewise I havent really contributed to the moaning about poo bar before we saw it thread, the moaning about track changes thread, and no doubt many other miserable topics that I dont particularly recall at the moment!   

Yup - I didn't have the time or the inclination to get involved in the previous thread - if that now makes me a nodding donkey then so be it!!  What is now coming across is constructive criticism, not blathering sycophancy.

[Snoring Rhino]

Like many, I didn’t realise the RLM was up until this year, a voluntary not for profit set up run by enthusiasts, I accept it for what it is and it has been apart Le Mans for us (only 5 years - maybe after 10 or 20 years I'll get a medal??)and enjoyed it. In that respect it's was a bit like Club Arnage, RLM achieves what it does because of the efforts of a few and benefits many.

Matt, equally, just because its free doesn’t mean or one should assume its rubbish.

I went off on one at "Oldtimer", why, because a bloke who posted 9 posts, posted a subject on Club Arnage "Radio Le Mans - who needs it?" I suppose after he's had 5 copies of the CA guide to LM, in 2011, he'll post on another forum "CA guide to LM - who needs it" ***** ********

Long may RLM continue, if we can help great, if some of our suggestions dont get taken up, fine, if some choose not to listen fine, I will listen, I particuarly enjoyed the webcasts from Sebring as I know others left behind did as well. Good job.
Lets stop moaning.

[TonyT]

..........I suppose after he's had 5 copies of the CA guide to LM, in 2011, he'll post on another forum "CA guide to LM - who needs it" ***** ********............

Classic

[oldtimer]

The number of posts I have made to the CA forums I don't really think is relevant to the debate.  I chose to raise the topic on the forum because it is designed for people with an interest in and passion for Le Mans and therefore seemed a reasonable place to open the topic to a wider audience...

I suppose it is possible that in 5 years time I may make a posting entitled "CA Guide to LM - who needs it" but only if in my opinion the quality of the guide has declined to such an extent that it no longer delivers the sort of information that people want from it.  If that does happen - which seems unlikely as I read only yesterday the thread calling for volunteers to help put togther the next guide and asking what people want from it - the posting will be made to the forum itself.

The point is I do feel that there has been a general decline in the usefulness of the broadcast content of RLM for trackside fans.  For most of the years it has broadcast it has been fantastic and was for me, as it it still is for many people, an integral part of the Le Mans experience.  What I liked most about it was the fact that it seemed to be more geared towards the needs of trackside fans than it is today.

If like me people want to know as quickly as possible the very latest developments on the track then I would love still to be able to listen to RLM and feel that that is what I would get.  However it doesn't feel that way to me anymore.  Enough people, other than me, have commented on the hourly updates provided by RLM and the point of the original posting was to remind others that there is an alternative provided by the ACO.  I admit that this is a less than perfect option and that is why I, and some of the others who have been involved in this debate, have already begun to lobby the ACO to have the information screens that many years ago used to exist and I thought were really useful reinstated.  It is not my intention, nor do I think it the intention of others who have sympathy for my views, to try and have RLM banished from the airwaves.  As far as I am concerned it would be a success to have the ACO information alternative improved and do you know what that may well make me MORE inclined to listen to RLM again.

Why?  Because it then really would not matter that much whether the updates were punctual and uninterrupted because I would feel safe in the knowledge that up to the minute information was easily available elsewhere.  It would take away that "... just tell me the bl*ody race order" feeling.  On the other media that RLM broadcasts this, I guess is less of a problem, because I imagine there are other visual elements to the broadcast that provide this information while the conversational element of the broadcast continues...  Just a guess though as I have been in the fortunate position of being trackside rather than unable to attend the race in person.

As I have intimated before I have attended many Le Mans events - though I am not advocating the issuance of attendance medals Ian.  The point is that I thought my experiences of the pre-RLM days and how race information was provided to (non-French speaking) spectators may be of interest to those who have not been as fortunate as me and may also help to shape elements of the debate.  I may not have much experience of posting to the CA forums, and if that has been evident to the more experienced 'posters' I am sorry, but I am not going to pretend that I don't have much experience of the event itself.

orry, but I am not going to pretend that I don't have much experience of the event itself and that some of the things useful in the past may, once again, be useful today.

[Kpy]

I went off on one at "Oldtimer", why, because a bloke who posted 9 posts, posted a subject on Club Arnage "Radio Le Mans - who needs it?" I suppose after he's had 5 copies of the CA guide to LM, in 2011, he'll post on another forum "CA guide to LM - who needs it" ***** ********

I thought we'd agreed to stop this "I've posted more than he has" stuff. It's boring and totally irrelevant.

[Jay (Team Cannonball)]

I would just like to say, that I didn't get involved in the previous thread, the same as a few other memebers because quite simply I thought there was nothing wrong with the RLM content. 

Keep up the good work.

And for those people who are moaning about adverts, will they please get a grip of reality please. If they think any commercial venture can exist without someone contributing to the bills they must be potty. I ask, do you watch ITV, Channel 4, Five and any of the host of satelite channels. Most likely you do, nobody likes adverts but we all understand the channels would not exist if there weren't any. BBC is only advert free because YOU pay 100+ notes for the privelge.

[delaney64]

I think this is a very interesting thread - and I'll nail my colours up straight away - I have been a Radio Le Mans listener for many years (from the start in 87 was it?).

I'd just like to make a few points on one or two of the posts and ask that no-one gets their panties in a wad - some hope there...

Big H makes the following point;

"I reckon the way forward here is to give more thought as how to satisfy the needs of the sponsors without alienating the listening punters, and obviously any sort of funding from the ACO would take the pressure off the amount ad content.
So, there you go, no ads. Or a lot less, and more subtle."

I seem to remember that there were few if any ads during track coverge this year and checking Hindy's post he talks about that and the other means of funding. So that's been done already - check!

ACO giving money - yeah right - dream on - we've had that discussion here before - Didn't we already know that the ACO take a sanction fee for the rights.

KPY said

". I’m really not interested in what Sébasitien Loeb, or any other driver has to say when he gets out of his car (unless there’s a problem), any more than I want to listen to a post Grand Prix press conference."

KPY - you are in a massive minority - hearing the drivers' comments is exactly why most people like the radio  This is not a PA commentary at some 20 minute clubbie - this is 24 hours of continuous broadcasting - the drivers are an intergral part of what is going on. Are you seriously suggesting that they don't bother talking to driver/team personnel? Don't answer that...

More from KPY
"I’m not interested in the commercial circumstances. They are for the operator to negotiate with the ACO on the one hand and potential sponsors on the other. I had no idea that John Hindhaugh and his friends were financially responsible for the show this year, and whether they showed a profit or loss is their concern, not mine"

Unless I missed something no-one here is suggesting you should be interested in the commercial side of things. Unless you are going to either a) put some cash in or b) pay for the service - I'm guessing that neither of those are not on your agenda.

However that doesn't make the commercial REALITIES disappear. Making statements like that just make you sound like a petulent child -  "I don't care, it's not my problem, I don't care!"  Come on you're better than that!

Radio Le Mans will stand or fall on a business case - if the sport and the sportscar community generally won't support it then it's clear to me that it will disappear. It also means that there is a broader audience to consider in order that the business case is satisfied. That doesn't make the show intrinsically bad -its just different now and yes the Internet is pat of that. Live with it!

When did RLM on the 'net start by the way?- I seem to think 1997 or 98?


I do miss the 'outrageous days' of the early years but I presume that would get the station taken off air nowadays - I don't miss the lack of overnight coverage (Still happening at the classic!) I don't miss scratchy walkie talkie messages from the far side of the circuit - I accept that the RLM guys can only talk about what they see on the TV coverage - if something happens at Mulsanne Corner right in front of me and it's not picked up on TV then they can't be expected to know - can they?

This is the new guys first year of Radio Le Mans - my opinion much better than under the last stewardship - it's clearly now run by poeple who care about the race and sportscars. They have already said they will take constructive comments on board but there are some here who just seem to like to moan and criticise - "the old days were better" really?

They had 15 records which you heard over and over - the Castrol Oil ad was OK for the first 20 times you heard it  - I remember the music shows at RLM in 87/88 the presenters sounded like they were drunk or high (or both) - Funny? - a bit sometimes - but also very embarrasing as I look back now. 

KPY thinks the service has gone downhill - I agree!

Since about 2001/2 there seemed to be a reduction in coverage with more Autosport and other magazine content and less race/event coverage.  I seem to remember Sheik Mactoum being interviewed in the first hour of the race (in 2003?) about what would become A1GP - clearly corporate politics at play there- great battle on the track 15 mins of non-relevant interview...

This year there was none of that - no long tyre company interviews, not anything from fuel suppliers - nothing to interrupt the racing.

So 2006 an improvement - yes - back to basics - definitely!

[Megabuck]

I've come late to this, and the prior 'RLM: Crap or what?' thread. I was working with the Grand Fromage, Baloo (or Smug Bastard, as I see he describes himself in the post-race Jox Jottings) et al doing the English language writing for the ACO website, and I have to say that it would be far, FAR harder without RLM. Even though we had bilinguals listening to the track commentary, RLM was often faster than them in reporting incidents - and on occasion got the story right when the commentary didn't.

Does this mean I think RLM is wonderful, and the sun shines out of Hindy's posterior? Well, no. I've only been doing LM since '95, and I do feel it's not as good as it used to be. But I'm not sure I could actually say conclusively which aspects of the service have declined. Two or three years ago I thought it was in danger of turning into the Hindhaugh show, but I don't think that's true any longer. When they first added Chuck Dressing, he added something new, but recently I felt he was rambling and irrelevant on too many occasions - but then, he wasn't there this year.

I agree that the hourly run-down was pretty erratic this year. I'd suggest they do a run-down of the top three in each class at the top of the hour, after the UK news, with a full run-down of the entire field, including retirements, on the half-hour

I haven't read every word in every post, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is the difficulty they face in trying to cover a 24-hour race, which includes long periods when nothing of any great significance is happening, on a live audio commentary with no respite apart from ads and the hourly news bulletin. Frankly, getting anywhere close to achieving this wihtout endless repetition is a major achievement.

I did think they should have challenged the Radical team, and their assertion that they'd cured water in the exhaust pipes with RadWeld. Hands up anyone who thinks a cracked exhaust manifold can be cured with RadWeld? No, me neither.

No, RLM were far from perfect - but they weren't a complete disaster either.

[monkey]

I for one would like to thank 'Oldtimer' or Pat (for Ian’s.........benefit. ++++++.) For raising this debate, I had mentioned before that I would not bother taking my radio next year. I will now. I genuinely feel that the constructive points raised in this thread, and the fact that RLM are big enough to listen will help the service improve and as a result make the station, (once again) a really important part of the Le Mans experience.

[wishy]

I would like to add my comments.....having sat in the background,so to speak.

I first visited the cicuit in 98,and was really pleased to hear the commentary of RLM as we would have been completely in the dark at that time as to what was going on during the race.

On the current rantings.We are all loyal to RLM,but as creatures of habit we do not like change,and feel the radio station is letting the trackside supporters down and is now preferring to support the WWW.

The majority of us who are now regulars have access to the web at home and.......now have to accept that RLM also has to cater for those who cannot attend the race for whaterver reasons,whether it be cost,commitments or logisitcs,and remember we have only really been able to use the net in the past 5 years for broadcasts via streaming,so RLM have given us the opportunity to listen at home when previously  it was out of our reach.

On a number of occasions last season I sat in front of the PC listening to RLM who were broadcasting  various races.....because I could not attend!!!!

So to Hindy and the crew ......keep up the good work......but remember us trackside boys.....and can you bring back the Friday eveing treks into the campsites next year and when is Mr Titchmarsh returning to the fold as he really took the pi""" out of me when I had a problem with the car and needed help with borrowing some tools to do the job,Which he (kindy) put out on air.

Wishy

[Snoring Rhino]

We seem to be coming to a positive conclusion on the RLM debate and hopefully helpful to them for future broadcasts - which is a good thing, and fits with the nature of the CA forum.

I doubt that RLM expects to be perfect for everybody; hopefully they will be able to keep the overall fan perspective both trackside and on WWW balanced with the commercial reality.

Apologies if my rebuttal of Pat's initial post was a bit strong for some (especially to you Pat), it just seemed to be a very negative and harshly critical soapbox that you were standing on.

[oldtimer]

Apologies accepted Ian.  Thank you.

I am not sure if this is the beginning of the end of this thread or not.  If it is then thanks to those who have contributed to what has been a lively and, on the whole, constructive debate.

If the thread does fade away let us not all forget what has been discussed.  Keep up the lobbying of the ACO to improve their trackside information systems - it will enhance evrybody's enjoyment of the event  - and let's hope that RLM can incorporate into their future broadcasts some of the suggestions that have been made to improve the lot of the trackside listeners.

[Christopher]

A little off topic, but here goes……

There has been mention in this thread that in the past there used to be 'information' screens around the circuit (I have only been going since 1997 and don't recall seeing them, so before my time I guess).

Some people liked them, others commented they were often inaccurate.

But surely with today's real time feedback and timing from the cars as they pass the pits there should be no reason for these screens to be inaccurate if they were re-instated by the ACO. The technology must exist that they would not need to lay down miles of communication cable, some sort of local transmission could be possible to the far flung reaches of the circuit.

I mean they use this timing technology to feed into the team garages and pit wall, why cannot it just be fed to other screens in other areas of the track?

Anyone know if this is technically possible?

I don't see this as a replacement to RLM, but could compliment it.

[monkey]

I have to admit that my recollection was that they were pretty much up to date most of the time, even in 1986/87 which was the last time I remember seeing them. This debate has established that they were not to everyone’s taste, but I have to say I really liked them. I agree with you surely the technology must exist??

As I mentioned my email has been sent to the ACO requesting that perhaps they could consider the reintroduction of the screens. I will post here if I hear anything from them.