Marshalling changes

[lynxd67]

The marshalling has changed quite a bit Werner, or so it seems, Following a briefing a month back there are no longer "posts" or "Chief Marshals" but sectors and sector chiefs. over 250 marshals have disappeared in the mix too. Many posts have seen their allocations reduced quite sharply with on one post I know but 18 for the whole race. Posts inside the circuit don't help deal with accidents on the outside, except in the case of danger to life. As I understand it, to use the Rockenfeller accident as an example, if he had exited the track on the outside the post opposite on the inside would then radio and await assistance from marshals from Indianapolis on the outside to arrive.

[Werner]

Cheer Werner.
 Just to update, I've uploaded most of the changes to the marshals section. I just need to do the hybrid part, and i can do that in a couple of weeks after Silverstone - if that timing works?

Yes, that timing would be fine.

[Werner]

As I understand it, to use the Rockenfeller accident as an example, if he had exited the track on the outside the post opposite on the inside would then radio and await assistance from marshals from Indianapolis on the outside to arrive.

So in a situation like this drivers have to wait longer for help than before. WTF...

[Jason]

As I understand it, to use the Rockenfeller accident as an example, if he had exited the track on the outside the post opposite on the inside would then radio and await assistance from marshals from Indianapolis on the outside to arrive.

So in a situation like this drivers have to wait longer for help than before. WTF...

Yes and No. While marshals will be persuaded not to cross the track to an incident, there will be more intervention vehicles.

[Canada Phil]

My concern with cuts to volunteers like this is going to be is the grass roots of the sport not just in France but all across Europe and in fact the world. My club here in Canada struggles to find enough recruits to replace the aging marshall group.
As we know it is boots on the ground and skilled heads on shoulders that are needed when it all goes wrong. Lights & computers are tools on their own they can no save lives.
Phil

[Werner]

Good point, Phil. May be it's time to re-think that whhole volunteer marshal model. Professional training and a reasonable salary for teh week ends could make this more attractice - and in the Pro-Series like WEC, F1 and so on there's enough money around. Just re-allocate some of the TV money...
It's different for the amateur motor sport series series though, they'll depend on volunteers for marshalling in the future also.

[Jason]

Phil, Werner, while I agree in part with full time safety teams, you then fall into wage, tax and h&s liabilities, and ao forth.
This is an issue that gets made every so often. I personally feel there should be certain roles that are full time paid, but backed up with support by experienced boots on the ground that have local knowledge. Sadly this is the way things will end up - Rapid Response teams as the marshal population is only getting older

[lynxd67]

I'm not concerned about wages to people who marshal out of passion, but is there something wrong with offering expenses for example? I mean, talking to English marshals who come to Le Mans they seem to have a choice every two years as to whether to do the 24 hours or the Classic. With petrol, ferries, expenses et al they aren't far off £1,000 of their own money fo just one event. I feel we need some of that TV money to pay for these expenses.

[Lorry]

Life's like that.  I've just helped organise a little event, and about 100 marshals and officials all donated their time and expenses, as they would at the British Grand Prix.  If they were paid it would have more than tripled our entry fee.  Most of the entry fees goes to the landowner and MSA insurance/approval, and a bit on the medics, rescue/recovery and patching the tarmac etc.

The good news is that the Field Kitchen burger van donated burgers to the marshals and we made quite a bit for charity, including the proceeds from a cake stall 

There's no TV fees, but search Hullavington on Youtube. 

[Jason]

I'm not concerned about wages to people who marshal out of passion, but is there something wrong with offering expenses for example? I mean, talking to English marshals who come to Le Mans they seem to have a choice every two years as to whether to do the 24 hours or the Classic. With petrol, ferries, expenses et al they aren't far off £1,000 of their own money fo just one event. I feel we need some of that TV money to pay for these expenses.

But the minute you start paying marshals, above tokens for petrol or food, you are into payment. And the money has to come from somewhere.

Anyway, can we take the marshal discussion to the general board, and keep this thread for the 2015 guide

[JDS]

Phil, Werner, while I agree in part with full time safety teams, you then fall into wage, tax and h&s liabilities, and ao forth.
This is an issue that gets made every so often. I personally feel there should be certain roles that are full time paid, but backed up with support by experienced boots on the ground that have local knowledge. Sadly this is the way things will end up - Rapid Response teams as the marshal population is only getting olde.

Also, because LM is where it is, I.e in France, it would be all but impossible to pay marshals even if the ACO wanted to - the French employment laws are virtually medieval in their indecipherability, incredibly complex and make it impossible to pay a non-national without them being employed by a French company and as soon as you employ them the employing company must pay yearly social contributions up front etc. and that's all before the "should we pay Marshals" debate even takes place ......

[Grand_Fromage]

From personal experience, if you are self-employed, working for a French company in France becomes a lot simpler. Not easy by any means but much less complicated.

Phil, Werner, while I agree in part with full time safety teams, you then fall into wage, tax and h&s liabilities, and ao forth.
This is an issue that gets made every so often. I personally feel there should be certain roles that are full time paid, but backed up with support by experienced boots on the ground that have local knowledge. Sadly this is the way things will end up - Rapid Response teams as the marshal population is only getting olde.

Also, because LM is where it is, I.e in France, it would be all but impossible to pay marshals even if the ACO wanted to - the French employment laws are virtually medieval in their indecipherability, incredibly complex and make it impossible to pay a non-national without them being employed by a French company and as soon as you employ them the employing company must pay yearly social contributions up front etc. and that's all before the "should we pay Marshals" debate even takes place ......