Autosport names Tom Kristensen as the best driver never to race in Formula 1

[Grand_Fromage]

http://www.tomkristensen.com/en/news/2013/7/tom-k-named-the-best-driver-never-to-race-in-formula-1/

[Nordic]

Thats a bit sweeping!!

TK is undoubtly a good driver, and way better than some that did race F1, but the best? I really dont recall him setting the world alight in lower formula.

There would be many indy car drivers of the 70's and 80's that I would score higher for example.

[Grand_Fromage]

A.J. Foyt has been suggested, if you don't count the years when the Indy 500 formed part of the F1 calendar.

[Boorish Grobian]

With all due respect to TK, who I have enormous respect for, I can think of a good many drivers who I would rate above Tom.  As mentioned, Indycar in the 70's & 80's abounded with great talent, Rick Mears (before his leg shattering Sanair shunt) was as good as anyone in F1 at the time.  Super Tex, Parnelli Jones, the Unser brothers, Johnny Rutherford I would all rate higher than Tom.  And the name Jeff Gordon springs to mind instantly, would without question have been the next World Champion from the US had he not chosen to go the stock car route.
There was also a fellow named Bob Sweikert, who won the 1955 Indy 500, but was tragically lost soon afterward.  Many of the road racing journalist, Jenks included, thought he was a talented as anyone racing in Europe in that era.
Fax

[Lawnmower Man]

Hmmm...

I think this is a very difficult thing to judge.   It's going to be very difficult for anyone to beat TK with his number of wins at Le Mans and in such a short period too.  Jacky Ickx took 14 year to amass his six wins   TK has six consecutive wins and a total of nine wins in 16 years and I guess he's not finished yet.   But what competition has he had, the Audi Team like it or not has a very impressive record at Le Mans.  I always remember an interview with Ronnie Peterson.  When asked  how he could come to terms with having to play second fiddle to Andretti the reply. 
'Well I can drive for Lotus and be second or I can drive for another team and be third.".

In the 1980s Porsche were as dominate as Audi have been in the 2000s but it wasn't the factory winning all the time. 
(Interestingly it was Team Joest that triumphed over the Works Porsche in 1985.)   Thus it was much more difficult for a single driver to be as dominant as TK has been.   

To pick up on the A. J. Foyt point surely the Indy 500 was not an F1 event but merely a round in the Drivers Championship as was Le Mans at one time.

I wonder how TK would do against Ickx if we were really able to compare the two.  (Yes I know Ickx drove F1.

t.

[Boorish Grobian]

Comparing Ickx to TK purely as racing drivers? I like TK, but my personal opinion is that Jacky in his prime was head & shoulders a quicker, and superior racer to Tom in his prime, I don't think its even close.  Tom has been a fine Sportscar and DTM driver, but during the late sixties and early seventies Jacky Ickx was simply one of the best racing drivers on the planet.
Fax

[Martini...LB]

I know Jack-Shxt about racing when it comes to the knowledge that is passed on in these hallowed pages, BUT, I think you should read the magazine...

I will still know J-S but it might enlighten their idea of the top 50.

>Martini...LB

[Boorish Grobian]

Took at the list, its much as i thought it would be from a birdcage liner like Autosport.  Way too heavily slanted toward contemporary stars (the past twenty years or so).  I can think of a great many stars of the sixties, seventies, and eighties that should be on this list.  Of the contemporary Indycar stars, Franchitti yes, but certanly wouldn't rate him higher than Mears, Foyt or Jones.  Gary Paffett at 8? Really?  Will Power, Jorg Muller, and Nicolas Minassian? Hell he couldn't even cut it in the IRL  What the hell are they doing on this list?  Al Unser Jr?  Joking right? I'd put his father and uncle on the list, but not that coked-up, wife beating hillbilly....
I liked Stephen South enormously during his F3 and F2 days, but he raced in F1, granted he failed to qualify his McLaren at Long Beach, but he had a F1 drive.
Greg Moore and Gerry Birrell are good calls, but I would have rated Moore much higher than Wheldon.  Dan obviously was good on ovals, but struggled badly on road courses, its one of the reasons he couldn't find steady work in Indycar his last few years.  Wouldn't have placed hin nearly that high.
Just  curious, where's Al Holbert, or Hurly Haywood?
I love Rossi, as well the rally guys, but they don't belong on the list.  Like I said, typical tabloid crap from Autosport.
I put Rick Mears at the top of the list, the most dominating driver of his generation, in a loaded with talent CART era.  Tested for Brabham twice, and was quicker than Nelson Piquet at the height of his powers as a F1 driver.  Bernie was desperate to sign him, and tried like hell, but Rick liked driving for Penske, and didn't want to have to uproot his young family to Europe.
Fax

[Grand_Fromage]

And another thing...

Autosport tends to support the notion that F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport.

[Lawnmower Man]

Comparing Ickx to TK purely as racing drivers? I like TK, but my personal opinion is that Jacky in his prime was head & shoulders a quicker, and superior racer to Tom in his prime, I don't think its even close.  Tom has been a fine Sportscar and DTM driver, but during the late sixties and early seventies Jacky Ickx was simply one of the best racing drivers on the planet.
Fax

Exactly. 

Another thing we might tend to forget is what was required of a driver in the 20^th Century.  The driver not only steered the car but he had to change gear using a stick shift sans Synchromesh, coordinating Clutch and Engine speed.  The only feedback the engineers could get was that given to them by driver.  The only way the driver knew he had a puncture was from the handling of the car not the race engineer telling him on the radio.   The cars weren't as robust as they are today so the driver needed to drive with the thought of taking care of the car too.

t.
   

[Nordic]

Its a shame modern era drivers are sheltered from key elements of driving, such as changing gear, however i'm sure there are talents they have demonstrate that drivers from yesterday did not.

I suspect the same drivers would be top F1 drivers, but its impossible to compare drivers from era's.

[Grand_Fromage]

The modern race car steering wheel dashboard is becoming more and more like a games console.

If I was king I would eliminate all electronics except for lighting, ignition and basic gauges like temperature and battery state. No tree-hugging KERS or dopey DRS. Not because I'm a techno-phobe, but because I think the soul has almost gone from a sport that is very dear to my heart. I want my racing heros to be valiant titans not the petulant kids prevalent in F1 currently.

Its a shame modern era drivers are sheltered from key elements of driving, such as changing gear, however i'm sure there are talents they have demonstrate that drivers from yesterday did not.

I suspect the same drivers would be top F1 drivers, but its impossible to compare drivers from era's.

[Lorry]

Didn't Ickx win the Dakar too

I think we're looking down the wrong end of the telescope.  The question should be "Who is the best driver never to race at Le Mans"

Must be Hunt or Lauda - they ought to make a film out of that

[Canada Phil]

Didn't Ickx win the Dakar too

I think we're looking down the wrong end of the telescope.  The question should be "Who is the best driver never to race at Le Mans"

Must be Hunt or Lauda - they ought to make a film out of that

I'll Rush to second that Lorry 
Phil

[Lawnmower Man]

Didn't Ickx win the Dakar too

I think we're looking down the wrong end of the telescope.  The question should be "Who is the best driver never to race at Le Mans"

Must be Hunt or Lauda - they ought to make a film out of that

Good point Lorry,   I have seen one or two of those "Celebrity" races where you get all sorts of Drivers competing including Rally drivers and F1 drivers.   It always seemed to me that the Rally Drivers did much better than the Racing Car drivers.  Of course a Sierra Cosworth or whatever is closer to a Rally car than an F1 car but even so one might expect a seasoned Track driver to be able to push the thing around a track faster than than a Rally Driver.   I have the feeling that Rally drivers have a much better feel for car than F1 drivers who are more used to being able to have the car tweaked to their liking.

t.