Safety Car Periods

[smokie]

The only thing I would say is that the presence of the tree and its location/proximity to the Armco is not currently "fact" - although far too many people have mentioned it for it to be a co-incidence.

http://blog.parathyroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AllanSimonsenTree.jpg

[Lazy B'stard]

The only thing I would say is that the presence of the tree and its location/proximity to the Armco is not currently "fact" - although far too many people have mentioned it for it to be a co-incidence.

http://blog.parathyroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AllanSimonsenTree.jpg

It's too early to speculate I think. We won't know until the coroner has his say. There's little clear TV or photographic footage to go off (in the public realm anyway), we don't have any in car data (although I seem to recall mention of a 75G impact somewhere or other.

I'm still shocked by his death. It's not the fastest place to go off and surely as it slid it scrubbed some speed off? The car didn't look as bad as some we have seen, and he was reported to be talking to the corner workers and extraction team. That tree has lost it's bark but there's not much else wrong with it, suggesting that the impact wasn't exceptionally heavy. I've done worse in my own forays into the trees.

I think that's why the news when it came was so shocking. We've seen some monster shunts at LM over the last few years and have grown accustomed to them having a happy ending. Looking back two years to Rockys crash, that was the one where you thought 'god rest' only for him to climb away from the wreckage. OK, different class of car and a different type of accident, but when you saw what was left of the car afterwards, you start to think these guys are indestructible.

I guess we will know over the next few weeks and we'll see what can be done to prevent another sad loss.

[smokie]

Probably some sort of internal injury/bleeding eventually took him, with all the organs being shaken up a lot, rather than any intrusive injuries...

[clkgtrlm1]

Does anyone know the optimum distance those barriers are required to flex to absorb maximum impact? I am assuming that these need to move some distance to perform correctly?? Certainly 6 inches does not seem to be enough to me! I can see that this position would not 'normally' be considered a place where a car would / could have a direct impact (being WELL on the exit of a pretty fast / well flat really , corner) but come on! Even I could have predicted that this is not going to be good enough, there should have been tyres and conveyor belts here.

[Robbo]

Having thought about the two enormous crashes by McNish & Rockenfeller two years ago, I fully understand how the LMP1 cars (and for that matter F1, and all other single seaters) are designed to shred equipment in order to dissipate energy during a crash.

GTE cars don't appear to have anything to shred during such incidents.

The Krohn Ferrari didn't loose much equipment during it's crash on Wednesday which resulted in a car change as did the #51 AF Corse Ferrari last year.

Just a thought.

[Lord Steve]

Brace yourself.  I can't find anything to disagree on in this post.
 

Whooopp-dee-dooo....

This is not the place for sarcasm.

[jimclark]

Allrighty. 'Just thought it made my point succinctly.  

[Boorish Grobian]

Sacasm aside, I'm just amazed that someone is pompous enough to dishonor to the late, great double world champion, and Indy 500 winner's name, by using it (and his portrait) as a chat forum user name.  Perhaps some of us on here should change our names to JuanManuelFangio, AlbertoAscari, or GrahamHill? On second thought, we have more respect for the deceased titans of the sport.
Fax

The alternative view is that it is a mark of respect, but as per above comment, not really the place for this discussion please. Smokie

[wishy]

I would tend to agree with Smokies comment on internal injuries, but we will know when the details if the post mortem are released.

My crash 3 years ago was similar to Allans in as much as I too came to an abrupt halt when my car was stopped by the armco from a 120mph spin.

I was able to communicate with the medical/rescue services and was totally unaware of how serious my internal injuries were at the time, but thanks to all involved on the day i'm lucky enough still to be here.

[Radar]

If that picture really is of the crash site, it's pretty shocking, but I guess we should bear a couple of points in mind: 1) the barrier had to be repaired very quickly after the crash. It's entirely possible that the mountings had shifted in the impact, and that the original barrier was further away from the tree (although that clearly didn't prevent the car from hitting it). 2) The ACO actually has a reasonably good record for protecting drivers in recent years. There are far more gravel traps and double-layer tyre barriers than there used to be and we've had some truly appalling smashes from which the driver has walked, or at least limped, away. As has already been pointed out, the crash site was on the exit of the corner, well away from the "normal" trajectory of a spinning/crashing car. My guess is this was a combination of poor oversight, sheer bad luck and the fact that a street circuit which has to be reopened to normal traffic very quickly can never be made entirely safe.

[gatordad]

I've been to a zillion races at Daytona and the wreck that Big E was in did not look "that bad" to me sitting in Roberts Tower.  Very few drivers wore the HANS device until after he got killed.  As for Senna...well, I was probably using a bit too much hyperbole there.

BTW, there is a picture of "the tree" posted on another thread I think.

[Rhino]

Having in the past looked at where the crash took place, yes the trees are just behind the Armco. Remember at the time thinking it wouldn't be good if someone hit them as there was no give in them. When Terte Rouge was re-profiled i thought it was a good thing as it angled the cars away from them. Sadly it was not to be.
Perhaps as we have been without a fatal injury, safety has stalled and now is the time to look into safety further. Having spent a few Friday nights at the Stella bar watching the Armco being tweaked by the local council crew it always made me wonder how Armco should be fixed. Most of the Mulsanne is pipes set into the ground with the Armco uprights slotted into it. This needs to be replaceable so is not cemented into the ground it is wedged in places with wooden wedges. Not sure about that...
As for tyre walls, they have to be fixed so they won't explode over the track when hit, and stop cars from diving underneath. Remember Kovalinen in his Mclaren skating over the gravel and submarining under the tyre wall, stopped short of hitting him but snapped the chassis, fortunately it held together with the kevlar.
Also sadly this weekend another driver Andrea Mame was killed in a 5 car crash in the Lamborghini support race at Paul Ricard before the Blancpain race. I think a review of driver safety in GT cars is definetly called for.
There are no easy quick answers

[Brad Zarse]

I worked at TRL in Crowthorne for a while, back a few years ago, and was lucky enough to witness a few Armco tests.  

The video below is not one of them, but gives you an idea of how far a barrier would be looking to move, to absorb the impact.  They are DESIGNED to shear the bolts and that shearing also helps with energy dissipation.  Clearly IF a tree was as close as it appears to the barrier, then that is going to ruin its effectiveness, and will potentially leave the ACO up a certain street, and very seriously lacking a paddle.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTodeeJ3-co

[jimclark]

I've been to a zillion races at Daytona and the wreck that Big E was in did not look "that bad" to me sitting in Roberts Tower.

I wuz gonna agree but it's obvious that ther is a majority that just don't get it...

God help us.....