A New Winner!

[Nordic]

The issue of safety cars and indeed driver behaviour around yellow flags was discussed several times.  Basically they were saying that the drivers do not slow enough for yellows these days.

In F1 they use lap times and sector times to check if the drivers are slowing enough and I guess they could do the same here although I suppose part of the problem is the different classes of car and the sheer number of them which would make checking them all more difficult.

It does seem that a new system would be good if only one could be found which protects marshalls drivers etc.

It would be easy to have a sector speed limit that had to be observed by all cars, the penalty would be harsh to the offender, but alot harsher if an offender went of the track into a marshal, so a pace care is the only sure way to contain the speed.

Part of the proble was that slow moving trucks were on track, mybe a few more of those at key points would reduce the need for them to trundle round the track.

[Nobby Diesel]

I've seen photos that show that Allan might have been going a bit wide to avoid a spinning Ferrari (see the slow moving car getting back up to speed that the Corvette overtakes). As for the lack of tyres/padding in front of the barriers, we had only been talking about this on the Friday evening.

Incredibly sad  

That would be my thoughts too.
This is the most revelaing footage that I have seen so far http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIVpzKqCLBE

It clearly shows 3 cars spinning on the same patch of paint. The first is the 43 car, which recovers then rejoins. Then the Ferrari, followed by the Aston. Other cars do appear to run over the paint, but I think these 3 were wider than the others and perhaps ended up with both wheels on the paint.

[landman]

They we not the only ones this weekend.

I have a mate who is a marshall at MP19 [and yes he did have to deal with the crash and AS] and he allows up to the post to stand just behind the catch fence but with an unobstructed view of the cars for photos & video.

Whilst I was up there on Saturday afternoon I saw the Alpine car [35?] lose the back end in exactly the same position.  The difference was that the left rear gave way and the car then bounced in to the right hand side of the track just down on to the Mulsanne.

What was also clear is that just as the cars hit the mid-point of Tertre Rouge the surface is slightly uneven & this causes the cars to "wobble" and to go light at the front for a second or two.

Therefore if AS saw that spinning Ferrari whilst "mid-wobble" and had a light front end to his car there might have been very little control.

I'm no expert, not a driver, a marshal or anything other than a fan, but to me there seems to be no one major issue here, just several small problems which, in isolation, would not have resulted in Allan Simonsen losing his life.  However on Saturday they all combined to create "the perfect storm".

I just hope that all involved will look at this calmly & rationally to assess what, if any, changes are required.

No doubt the French judicial service will dig their teeth in to this, which worries me on various levels.

RIP Allan.

[Nordic]

There is a respectful tribute in the Daily Telegraph to Allan Simonsen, contained in the Audi ad that marks their victory in the race.

I'm no expert, not a driver, a marshal or anything other than a fan, but to me there seems to be no one major issue here, just several small problems which, in isolation, would not have resulted in Allan Simonsen losing his life.  However on Saturday they all combined to create "the perfect storm".

Pretty much my thoughts as well, two others spun on the same corner within moments of each other without the dire outcome that befell the Aston. Hate to think this will lead to the removal of the trees or more track modifications, but its the way of the world that someone/thing will need to be blamed and a reaction will need to be seen to have undertaken.

Hopefully if a problem is found it can be resolved without wholescale change.

[Boorish Grobian]

I ll go back to my original thought of why no tire barriers there?  There are several other places on the circuit where the cars are travelling at a pretty good clip, with, from what  we witnessed this weekend, very flimsy barriers, close to the edage of the circuit, again with no energy absobers in front of them.  The Porsche Curves from what I can tell have no tire barriers to speak of.  The thought of a car getting into, and penetrating the barriers there is pretty horrific.
Fax

[smokie]

Looks to me from that amateur clip that he went to go inside the potential incident unfolding in front of him, then realised they were heading inwards so changed to go outside them, but overcompensated and simply had too much speed to get round. If he had time to think, he probably thought the gravel would be the safest option.

Tragic.

[Jager]

As already noted, it was sadly something of a perfect storm. Yes, in hindsight tyre barriers would have helped, but who would have predicted a car turning 90 degrees to the track ?

As indicated above, there was a large tree right behind the armco. What were they thinking ? Had AS managed to go two feet either left or right, the results might have been different. Unfortunatley it appears it was a direct hit.
 


PS - Not my photo, but trust its OK to post in the interests of the discussion.

[Grand_Fromage]

Hitting a barrier that is touching a tree is basically not a great deal different to hitting a tree.

As already noted, it was sadly something of a perfect storm. Yes, in hindsight tyre barriers would have helped, but who would have predicted a car turning 90 degrees to the track ?

As indicated above, there was a large tree right behind the armco. What were they thinking ? Had AS managed to go two feet either left or right, the results might have been different. Unfortunatley it appears it was a direct hit.
 


PS - Not my photo, but trust its OK to post in the interests of the discussion.

[mulc99]

Erm. Just my twopenny worth. Wasn't the last driver killed at LM during a race, before Simonsen, also driving an Aston?  Having said that, I feel that the ACO should change the circuit back, It seems that major profit rules now.

[Boorish Grobian]

No, it was Austrian Jo Gartner in Kremer Porsche 962 way back in 1986, crashed shortly before where the first chicane is now on the Mulsanne.  There was a extended safety car period that year to rebuild the barriers as well, along the lines of three or four hours (the slow pace behind the SC caused the demise of the Joest car which had been in the thick of the fight for the lead).  But his crash had done enormous damage to the armco.
Fax

[Nordic]

Erm. Just my twopenny worth. Wasn't the last driver killed at LM during a race, before Simonsen, also driving an Aston?  Having said that, I feel that the ACO should change the circuit back, It seems that major profit rules now.

Are you maybe thinking of the nimrod crash that, if I recall correctly took the life of a marshal?

The photo of the barrier is chilling. You don't need to be a genius to see the problem with having a tree that close to the armco. I would hope that all the armco is now reviewed.

[Andy77]

I think , there was a fatal crash in the mid to late 90s. Just not in race but practice . I don't remember much of it though. Perhaps this one?

[Grand_Fromage]

I think , there was a fatal crash in the mid to late 90s. Just not in race but practice . I don't remember much of it though. Perhaps this one?

Sébastien Enjolras died on test day in 1997 when the bodywork came off and he flew into the trees on the infield between Arnage and Porsche curves.

[mulc99]

Stand corrected. Thank you all. Was it not Gartner driving Nimrod?

[Nordic]

Gartner was driving the Kremer Porsche 962 (or 956)

One of the differances now was the information available, we were unaware of the outcome of the Gartnercrash until we got home.

The Nimrod crash involved both team cars,I think the driver was John Sheldon, he was badly burnt i think as well. The only way we found out the seriousness of this one was looking at the local paper pictures.