WEC 2013

[JDS]

Bahrain, Japan and China? Japan apart, does anyone in those countries give a sh*t about sportscar racing; and judging by the empty grandstands a few weeks back in Brazil, likewise?

Did you see the Bahrain coverage today? nobody there at all - the occasional shot of a local walking around outside the stands, but never saw a soul in the stands 

Have to agree that Silverstone in April is not the best of choices - anyone remember an April where it didn't rain? I'm starting to think that there is serious mileage in GF's statement that the WEC is doomed.

[Kristof]

Stands were empty ... After the finish there was a shot of the grandstand, think I saw 20 people on it.   Brazil was empty, this was even worse and I can't think it would get any better in China.  They might get some interest in Japan with Toyota but that's it.

Whoever pays to get a race, they'll have it.  Rather that than a race on a track were the fans can come over and watch it apparently.   Next year Silverstone, Spa and Le Mans will have their spectators, everything else will be on deserted tracks.  Guess the teams won't be happy about that ?  Driving in front of empty stands, marginal media coverage of the race ... Can't imagine they want to race something like Bahrein and Brazil 'cause those are the big markets for their cars or sponsors ?

[Boorish Grobian]

This is what I was bitching about when the FIA released the WEC calendar, they scheduled races in places where nobody gives rat's behind about sportscar racing, and no one is going to show up. But because of the FIA's dumb-ass regulation that a country can't host more than one race, they won't go to Road Atlanta, where they could have raced in front of a packed house of spectators that actually care about sportscar racing.
In hindsight, I'm going to call out Big Cheese for being a complete f**k*ng hypocrite!  He was the one pimping the WEC!  And I called it a pile of rubbish from the outset!
Its amazing a what making a living off the sport will do to people opinions?  One minute you support the WEC and its decisions, the next when it clearly is going to fall like a house of cards, your on the side of the critics.
The nice thing about not being employed by the sport, and just being an enthusiast, is that you can call a spade a spade.  The WEC was never going to fly, from the outset, and GF knew it, but he was going to pimp it for all it was worth because he could make a buck off it.   Now it's clearly going to take a sh*t & die, and he's going to say he called it?  Give me a f**k*ng break!
Racing should be done by Racers, not by people looking to make a buck off of it.
Fax

[Nordic]

Rose tinted glasses are great. Its been a very long time since sports car races have drawn big crowds at anything thing other than a few key races outside the USA.

I expect if tracks like Monza, the 'ring, Paul Ricard thought they could make a race work for them they would pushing to have a race there. The European appetite for long distance races has faded,

The WEC could work, and may still do, its got 2 works teams and maybe one day the Porsche will finally turn up. But it lacks big sponsors behind the teams. Remember Group C, you had Rothmans, Martini, Canon, Silk Cut, Boss, AEG, Castrol, Shell etc. All looking for a return and marketing the races. nowadays the big buck sponsors have gone, either banned or in F1.

Fax, I don't often think you talking out your ring, but GF does know a thing or two about sports car racing, maybe even more than you.

Not sure what your grand idea would be, you never say but IMHO the WEC (which in reality is just a name) as a concept could work. it needs much better promotion and to rebuild interest in Europe before flying all round the world.

How you do that is to get drivers the general public have heard of, sponsors who invest not just in the team but also the races, get the top tracks interested, maybe have shorter 1hr races on a Saturday or big money sprint races like the old Norsring. 

[Boorish Grobian]

Correct Nordic, I was off base with that remark.  I've since modified my post. I was aggravated with GF, I said from the outset the schedule was crap and he kept telling me was wrong.  Well, the schedule (and the WEC) has turned out be a dud.
As far as getting high profile drivers to participate, Grand-Am does a good job of attracting NASCAR and Indycar elite on weekends when their not racing (which isn't often).
I think your right, outside of the US, and the LM 24hrs, there just doesn't seem to be any interest in sportscar racing.  I don't really understand what happened to the appetite for it in Europe, since the demise of Group C.  There was a time not long ago where Group C rounds attracted big sponsors and big crowds.
However no, I don't think with the current level of interest, and with the current regs, a WEC will work.  That's how I've felt from the outset, and one could take one look at that schedule and see there were going to be races where no one was going to show up.  My grand plan. ditch the current prototypes, and go with a silhouette formula, and shorter races that are TV friendly.  Fans just don't have a appetite for true prototypes anymore, go with something purpose built for racing but resembles a production vehicle, Group 5 if you like.  I think the era of LMP is dead.
Also, race in places where people will actually show up, if it means having three races in the US, so be it, at least you know there will be interest there.  If begin to sense a buzz in more remote markets, then go that direction.
fax

[Brad Zarse]

Correct Nordic, I was off base with that remark.  I've since modified my post. I was aggravated with GF, I said from the outset the schedule was crap and he kept telling me was wrong.  Well, the schedule (and the WEC) has turned out be a dud.
As far as getting high profile drivers to participate, Grand-Am does a good job of attracting NASCAR and Indycar elite on weekends when their not racing (which isn't often).
I think your right, outside of the US, and the LM 24hrs, there just doesn't seem to be any interest in sportscar racing.  I don't really understand what happened to the appetite for it in Europe, since the demise of Group C.  There was a time not long ago where Group C rounds attracted big sponsors and big crowds.
However no, I don't think with the current level of interest, and with the current regs, a WEC will work.  That's how I've felt from the outset, and one could take one look at that schedule and see there were going to be races where no one was going to show up.  My grand plan. ditch the current prototypes, and go with a silhouette formula, and shorter races that are TV friendly.  Fans just don't have a appetite for true prototypes anymore, go with something purpose built for racing but resembles a production vehicle, Group 5 if you like.  I think the era of LMP is dead.
Also, race in places where people will actually show up, if it means having three races in the US, so be it, at least you know there will be interest there.  If begin to sense a buzz in more remote markets, then go that direction.
fax

From what I can tell, you are suggesting:

* Three races in the US - Thus eliminating the "World" element.
* Shorter Races - Thus eliminating the "Endurance" element.
* I'm pretty sure if you look at most of it, you're suggesting there should be no "Championship" involved either.

Perhaps we should just leave the whole world that isn't single seater racing to Nascar. They can spend their time going roundy roundy and see who gets lucky?

[Lazy B'stard]

I can see some sense in Fax's comments. Not sure on the shorter races thing, but as for geographical locations....

Shorter races for TV. Firstly, as much as a love sportscar racing, it doesn't always make for great TV. It's like cricket. You either like the long game or you don't. Shorter races would be like 20 20 cricket- better for TV but not really cricket in the true sense.
 Last years Le Mans was fantastic for us die hards, but to the casual observer it was probably dull. If you try and change the sport in an effort to impress the casual observer, you destroy the sport. Take a look at World Rally as a good example of this. So, made for TV sport isn't the answer. How does the sponsor/ manufacturer get value for money if the sport isn't TV friendly? I don't know. I will leave that to someone with more brains than me.

Geography
 This is where Faxy boy has it just about spot on. Why go to countries that are not interested, especially when you have a new series? Would it not be better to have races in countries where there is a culture, history and passion for Sportscar racing? What is going to attract sponsors, manufacturers and race promotors.... A busy vibrant circuit or a desolate track in the arse end of nowhere with empty grandstands? So we have to have a calendar heavily based in the US and Europe for 4-5 years (just as F1 was in its early years), but at least it will build a stronger foundation- create a buzz, an excitement, a following. Sponsors and manufacturers will then see a worthwhile market- more teams, more interest. The popularity would grow and THEN it can go global into new continents.

At the end of the day, everyone is going to have a different opinion on what the WEC should/could be. At the moment it's clear to see that they have got it very wrong indeed. I suspect it will die a death, taking the feeder series with it (ELMS is already dead and ALMS has made a shrewd pact with the Devil to try and survive).

We can only hope that true sportscar races such as Sebring and Le Mans survive. And at the moment I'm not feeling so sure of that.

Si

[Grand_Fromage]

The WEC can exist because manufacturers want to race in emerging and developing markets. Without works teams involvement, the FIA don't have a credible championship.

TV is the most important thing in funding motorsport and spectators at the track somewhat less so. Even in F1 events, the trackside spectators are more 'set dressing' than major source of revenue. The WEC have a problem in that they need TV money but they also insist on 6 hour races that don't fit well into a TV schedule.

Like it or not, it is money that drives racing, and the WEC 2013 calendar is driven by money. The WEC needed a race in North America but they needed a race that was within budget and at a venue acceptable to the ALMS, and of course, one that does not clash with the F1 season. I'm not too surprised that the ALMS are not keen to have the WEC heavyweights overshadowing their 'swansong' Petit Le Mans prior to the "Grand-American Le Mans Series" in 2014. If you listened to the RLM interview with Gerard Neveu (WEC boss) on Saturday, the subtext seemed to be that the WEC was not in glowing financial health. Yes I'm enthusiastic about the WEC and I think an endurance racing World Championship is an excellent thing, but I'm just doubtful about its longevity in its current form, and in the midst of a gobal recession.

As for the folks who put together the 2013 calendar, they had an impossible job. I feel for them because I know they they knew the selections of dates and venues would'nt be popular with race fans. But.. you have to cut your coat according to your cloth.

[Lazy B'stard]

I understand that money is the number one requirement when it comes to Motorsport but the money comes from the marketing man. Marketing man can't be impressed by the rows of empty grandstands at every round. I doubt the TV viewing figures amount to much either. So where is Mr Marketing Man going to get his return? Who is going to go out and buy an Audi or a Toyota next week? Probably very few.

The WEC has tried to run before it could walk. It's not going to attract new fans and it's turning the old fans away in droves. How is that a step forward?

It has so much potential. Multi class racing is always going to be great- there's more overtaking in an hour than in a whole season of F1 without having to resort to dodgy tyres and moving flaps. Then there are the races too- Le Mans is probably the most famous race in the world. It's a damn sight cheaper to compete in than F1 too. Just ask Toyota.
 Everything is in place for something fantastic. I bet Bernie is pissing himself when he thinks of the WEC. I has the potential to blow F1 out of the water with the right team behind it.

The fans trackside might just be 'set dressing' in terms of direct revenue, but it's the fans that buy the sponsors products, buy the cars, make up the TV viewing figures, spread the word, create the buzz and drive a sports popularity. These are the people who should matter, because they are the end user, it is they that provide the money that a sport needs, not directly at the turnstile, but in the end of year report for the big manufacturers.

Someone (I can't remember who) on here told of the owners club corral's at Sebring. Once it was all Corvette, Ford Mustangs etc. 10 years ago you would spend hours in the car park looking for an Audi. Now the Audi corral is just as big as the Corvette corral. Those cars belong to the fans. They are paying for the racing, not TV.

Ignore the fans and you kill the sport.

[Boorish Grobian]

Brad, I'm not sying do away with long distances races, you know damn well what I mean, keep the blue riband endurance events Le Mans, Sebring, Petit, etc.  But time to do away with the 1000ks, or 6hr format.  They were great back in the day, and no one lives with rose-tinted glasses on more than me, but racing needs to be TV friendly like it or not.  I think the ALMS and Grand-Am both got it right with the 2 1/2-3hr format.
The notion that if you have more than one race in a country, it takes away its "World" element is pig-ignorant.  Simply put, race where people want you there...
And Brad, its easy to knock NASCAR, I do all the time, but have you ever seen their TV and attendance figures? The folks running the WEC would give their left arm for those kind of numbers, as would the sponsors involved.
Fax

[oldtimer]

Correct Nordic, I was off base with that remark.  I've since modified my post. I was aggravated with GF

I didn't see the post before it was modified but even after modification your views Fax are expressed, as usual, in a pretty forthright and unsavoury manner.  Anyway speaking of calling a spade a spade - you are behaving like a w****r.  Grow up.

[Boorish Grobian]

Good one oldtimer, that was a insightful contribution to the debate.
Fax

[oldtimer]

It wasn't meant to be a contribution to the debate it was meant to make you consider whether your petulant and childish antics are really appropriate.  A forlorn hope I fear.

[Boorish Grobian]

I'm not going anywhere, if you don't like it, don't read it.
Last time a checked, this a forum to express opinions, not just one's that agree with you.
Fax

[Rhino]

If they were going to shorten races, how long would they be? They are saying F1 races are to long. Would it be better if they had a few short races like the old Nuremberg race, do DTM still use it.
I still think they miss out on the best marketing tool. The cars should be proper 2 seater's. You could have a session on a Friday for journalist's and prize winners to travel in the car. Remember back in the early 80's when they used to do that.