Le Mans safety and amateurs on the track (rant!)

[adinsen]

I may make some angry by posting this, but I hope 2011 will be the last year with amateur drivers at Le Mans. I really don't understand why they are there - heritage? If so, why is it important to keep?

I made myself unpopular with Radio Le Mans by twitting to them that I agreed with Romain Dumas when he ranted over the amateur drivers Saturday evening - for some reason the guys there think amateurs are the greatest and that the pros just need to adjust. One hour later, Romains car was demolished when Rocky tried passing an amateur.

Antony Beltoise (who took McNish off) is technically a PRO, but take another look at the team. Before and during the start of the race, I chatted with an elderly french gentleman (it was his 62'nd Le Mans). He knew both Beltoise and the team owner (the one with the polish name, I don't remember). They are not experienced race drivers - not at all! The owner is a former table tennis champion - and just another a rich guy with a "Luxury Racing" team. The name of the team says it all. How they have made it into the GTE Pro class, I don't know.

And I'm not saying anything about the Ford GT team...

I'm from Denmark, and I was obviously put down by TK not making a single lap of the race. But that's not why I'm writing this - for me, Le Mans is so much more than Tom K! The way I see it is that I'm travelling 3000 km to enjoy the place and watch the race. Le Mans is the greatest motor race on the planet! But there's no greatness watching rich people have fun so they can brag about it at the golf course or in the pub.

I read in my morning paper that TK has been asked to write a report to FIA. He is not pointing fingers at anyone, but he does say that the crashes occurred (and that actually included Jan Magnussens Corvette crash) while experienced drivers were trying to overtake inexperienced drivers - and that the crashes would not have happened between pro's. TK knows what he's talking about.

I think Le Mans should be a purely professional race from now.

[SpriteII]

The GTs and the less professional drivers are part of the challenge.  OK we've had a couple of nasty incidents this year but I'd still think they are a fundamental part of the race and should stay.  I'm sure a few of the 'amateurs' are actually much better drivers than some of the professionals.

[Barry]

On the same grounds some of the Pug drivers should also be banned, disgraceful driving when blocking the Audi.
Keep the Gentleman drivers in my view.

[Lazy B'stard]

Hi

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what you say.

Amateur drivers are the very fabric of what makes Le Mans so very special. The day they stop taking entries from these drivers is the day the race dies. It is part of the magic, the dream of any man taking part in the worlds greatest motor race. Look at the entry list. Two thirds of the drivers were gentlemen (and a Lady) drivers this year. Who would fill the grid?
 How could we have amazing stories like Jean Rondeau winning in his own car in 1980? Paul Newman finishing second in 1979 behind two Yankee amateurs? Mike Newton winning LMP in a small underfunded team with an aging car for two years in a row a few years back? I could go on, but these are the stories that make Le mans special.

 Look what happened in the World Rally Championship a decade ago. The teams went media crazy and pushed out the amateurs. We went from long 5 day rallys with 170 cars to a three day sprint with 30 cars. The fans walked away, the media became uninterested and it died a slow and painful death. Would you want the same to happen to our beloved race?

 Everyone who has ever sat on the pit straight and watched those cars limp over the finishing straight after 24 hours harbours a burning desire to one day take part in that race. Would you take that dream away?

 As for the accidents? This is motor racing. It is dangerous. It is already too sanitized. Tou want safe? take up lawn tennis!
 It was also very clear to me that it was not the fault of those Amateur drivers in the two crashes you refer too. Plenty of Pro drivers made mistakes, and do every year. Magnussen punted off Horst Felbermayer at 8am leaving him in hospital with a big repair bill for starters. He is a Pro driver. He caused an accident.

 As for the two Audi crashes. They were very much of their own doing. They all sat in the same drivers briefing on Tuesday morning and were told that the slower cars must stay on the racing line, and it would be down to the faster cars to make a clean pass. Both McNish and Rocky tried to dive down the inside of cars that were moving towards the apex. The AM drivers were doing exactly what they were told to do. They took a risk, they paid the price.

 I do hope that TK takes time to look at the bigger picture before he submits his report to the FIA. The FIA buggered up endurance racing last time they took an interest. We need to hope and pray that this does not happen again. It is alright pandering to the big factory teams and the Pro's, but when the interest dies and the boardroom decide to spend money elsewhere, than this magical sport we love so dearly will wither and die, just as Rallying has. I was a huge rally fan and watched it die. Please don't let me live through that again.

Si

[Rhino]

All you need is for the FIA to get involved and your in trouble. Back in the early 90's when they decided endurance racing should be 3.5 litre engines they had the smallest entry ever. A lot of amateur drivers kept it going.
Perhaps the cars were to quick, the diesels were running under the 3.30 lap time the ACO wanted.

[pedersenkorsager]

Why blame all accidents on amatures?. I am also not pleased that my team audi 3 was in the first hour, but i think it was risk that Allan took to be first. But thats not a reason to destroy Lemans by only using pro drivers. I would like to think that Pro drivers has the skill to drive amongst les skilled drivers without crashing.

[Nordic]

The pro's need to take a long hard look at thier actions tbh, diving into spaces when a GT car is already commited is foolish. I would not blame either of the two ferrari drivers for the crashes that befell the Audis.

There must of been 1000's of passes over the week that envolve a P1 car overtaking a much slower GT car or Aston, to only have the few coming togethers that happened is a testament to the skill of both the pro's and the am's.

IMHO McNish must look at his own driving, his crash was avoidable from is point of view, he could easliy have made a safe pass a couple of seconds later.

[SpriteII]

I think part of the problem is the current competitiveness at the top.  Audi and Pug are so close and their cars so reliable that both teams are both able and under pressure to push for the full 24h.  Time was you would not be sprinting all the time and you could make take a few corners to pass a slow car.  Perhaps they now feel the need to pass immediately.

[JDS]

There must of been 1000's of passes over the week that envolve a P1 car overtaking a much slower GT car or Aston,

Sorry, bit off topic but made me laugh out in the office when I read it ...... 

[Bob U]

There must of been 1000's of passes over the week that envolve a P1 car overtaking a much slower GT car or Aston,

Sorry, bit off topic but made me laugh out in the office when I read it ...... 

Oh come on be fair. The Astons weren't over taken that often

[Bentley boy]

I think part of the problem is the current competitiveness at the top.  Audi and Pug are so close and their cars so reliable that both teams are both able and under pressure to push for the full 24h.  Time was you would not be sprinting all the time and you could make take a few corners to pass a slow car.  Perhaps they now feel the need to pass immediately.

I agree the time difference between 1st 2nd 3rd etc is so small now missed overtaking manoveures here and there over 24 hours can mean all the difference.
Should it be changed no but it'll possibly get worse & more competetive if more factory teams join.

I've had people say to me why don't they stop the different classes racing together if accidents like this happen, that surely would be the end

[Andy Zarse]

Hi

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what you say.

Amateur drivers are the very fabric of what makes Le Mans so very special. The day they stop taking entries from these drivers is the day the race dies. It is part of the magic, the dream of any man taking part in the worlds greatest motor race. Look at the entry list. Two thirds of the drivers were gentlemen (and a Lady) drivers this year. Who would fill the grid?
 How could we have amazing stories like Jean Rondeau winning in his own car in 1980? Paul Newman finishing second in 1979 behind two Yankee amateurs? Mike Newton winning LMP in a small underfunded team with an aging car for two years in a row a few years back? I could go on, but these are the stories that make Le mans special.

 Look what happened in the World Rally Championship a decade ago. The teams went media crazy and pushed out the amateurs. We went from long 5 day rallys with 170 cars to a three day sprint with 30 cars. The fans walked away, the media became uninterested and it died a slow and painful death. Would you want the same to happen to our beloved race?

 Everyone who has ever sat on the pit straight and watched those cars limp over the finishing straight after 24 hours harbours a burning desire to one day take part in that race. Would you take that dream away?

 As for the accidents? This is motor racing. It is dangerous. It is already too sanitized. Tou want safe? take up lawn tennis!
 It was also very clear to me that it was not the fault of those Amateur drivers in the two crashes you refer too. Plenty of Pro drivers made mistakes, and do every year. Magnussen punted off Horst Felbermayer at 8am leaving him in hospital with a big repair bill for starters. He is a Pro driver. He caused an accident.

 As for the two Audi crashes. They were very much of their own doing. They all sat in the same drivers briefing on Tuesday morning and were told that the slower cars must stay on the racing line, and it would be down to the faster cars to make a clean pass. Both McNish and Rocky tried to dive down the inside of cars that were moving towards the apex. The AM drivers were doing exactly what they were told to do. They took a risk, they paid the price.

 I do hope that TK takes time to look at the bigger picture before he submits his report to the FIA. The FIA buggered up endurance racing last time they took an interest. We need to hope and pray that this does not happen again. It is alright pandering to the big factory teams and the Pro's, but when the interest dies and the boardroom decide to spend money elsewhere, than this magical sport we love so dearly will wither and die, just as Rallying has. I was a huge rally fan and watched it die. Please don't let me live through that again.

Si

Absolutely agree.

I think that not only does the OP have a Tom K fixation but that his understanding of what makes the race great is limited to when TK started winning. McNish was totally at fault for the crash thatcould have killed him and the public. It is therefore totally unreasonable to lay the blame at the lack of professionalism of the lesser drivers.

Beltoise did not "take mcnish off" and thus I have rarely read such an badly thought out, not to say pig ignorant, post on CA.

[Lord Steve]

Completely agree Andy (and others). Never forget the beginnings and essence of Le Mans. I'm sick and tired of works team drivers (and some daft spectators) blaming amateurs for the crashes. You are correct - they were briefed before the race and new the rules.
What next - Ecclestone??

[Stu]

The owner is a former table tennis champion 

And your point is?

- and that the crashes would not have happened between pro's. TK knows what he's talking about.

What a load of bollocks. Happens nearly every race in F1 with pro drivers.

[Lawnmower Man]

As I see it Endurance racing has always had the mix of Professional and "Gentlemen" drivers and cars of differing categories.  That is what makes the events so interesting to watch.

With the close result this year for sure every second is important.  However,  I think it is wrong to loose sight of the fact to win you have to be running at the end of the race.  That means staying out of trouble.

Without knowing what the three drivers were thinking in the moments before the McNish incident it hard to apportion blame for what followed.  IMHO asking the drivers after the event Is flawed since they will add their judgement on what happened.

t.