Senna

[Grand_Fromage]

For what its worth, here is my take on Senna.

He had success in karting but never beat Terry Fullerton. He had success in British F3, winning the championship in 1983, but pretty much either won or crashed out, particularly in the second part of the season. This style would characterise his F1 career. There had been uncompromising F1 drivers, like Mario Andretti and others that came after him like Schumacher, but Senna had more than fearlessness of Mario or arrogance of Michael.   

He was undoubtedly a quick driver, but it was his uncompromising and religious self belief that set him apart. This confidence manifested itself on the circuit. Fellow competitors in F1 soon discovered that if you got in his way, or attempted to block a passing manoeuvre, he would rather have an accident than allow anyone to get the better of him. I don't think it was the same style of calculated bullying and blatant cheating that bought Schumacher his world championships, but a simple belief that he was the best, and deserved to win at any cost. His attitude did not endear him to the other drivers, and most significantly to his team mates. It polarised attitudes towards him by the press and the general public. Race fans either loved him or hated him, it was almost impossible to be neutral.

Love him or hate him, the Senna movie is worth a watch, but I wouldn't walk a mile...

[Andy Zarse]

Watched this film for the first time last night on ESPN2 over here. Good lord what a mountain of crap!  Can't beleive viewers have actually bought into this Senna worship BS film?

This so-called film is a load of old shyte about an oaf.



Of course I haven't actually seen the film, but when I do, needless to say, my reaction will be similar. 



PS KPY did kindly give me a copy DVD at Le Mans in 2011 but the disc was corrupted and it wouldn't play nicely. A bit like Senna himself.

[Boorish Grobian]

In hindsight I was a bit over the top in my remarks last evening, things like that happen when you've spent the night at the pub with some mates watching olympic coverage.  But my thoughts are essentially unchanged, it paints a very biased, sainted view of Senna, which or course was far from reality.  The film does include some remarkable footage from the Imola weekend in 1994.
The bit I found the most interesting was a very heated exchange between Sir JYS and Ayrton, when Jackie mentions that Ayrton had been involved in more collisions in the past 36 month's than the rest of the previous world champions had collectively in their careers.
Some interesting footage from the era, but won't go to any efffort to seek it out again.
Fax

[hgb]

I just saw the trailer of the film on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOzq927y15o) and it shows footage which I have seen before, and commented in a better way. The Top Gear documentation is ok but maybe this is due to Clarkson trying to be cool and younger than he is. This is better, more insights, youtube for "Ayrton Senna - The Right To Win". Well, he went into the wall at Imola without any sign of breaking. Has the world just lost another Jesus Christ because he was just "above" the car in that moment to see if all is well ? Or not... I can't say. I have no personal memory of him. Still, very sad and just wrong to see someone die in a race car.

BTW, great dicussion so far... I like that.

[Perdu]

I have seen the DVD, as it was a Christmas present it was only proper to watch it

once

I'm amazingly unlikely to ever waste the time again


can you tell I was unimpressed?

[Stu]

In hindsight I was a bit over the top in my remarks last evening, things like that happen when you've spent the night at the pub with some mates watching olympic coverage.  But my thoughts are essentially unchanged, it paints a very biased, sainted view of Senna, which or course was far from reality.  The film does include some remarkable footage from the Imola weekend in 1994.
The bit I found the most interesting was a very heated exchange between Sir JYS and Ayrton, when Jackie mentions that Ayrton had been involved in more collisions in the past 36 month's than the rest of the previous world champions had collectively in their careers.
Some interesting footage from the era, but won't go to any efffort to seek it out again.
Fax

Plus 1, I downloaded it when it came out and deleted it as soon as I watched it. For me it was a bit like those 999 rescue programs where everything is glamourised over the top around the main subject.
One bit that tickled me was the drivers briefing with Mansell wearing a cap which was only missing his ferret collection. F**k me, am I really that old  now.

And , adding a bit more, i enjoyed the Audi - Truth in 24 and also TT, Closer to the Edge  hundreds of more times than Senna. I was at Monaco the following race after Senna died and I'll never forget the 2 front row empty grid places with just the flags painted at the front for Senna and Roland Ratzenberger, (Le Mans competitor as well) who also lost his life at San Marino the previous race.

[Lorry]

I'm a little worried because Prof Sid Watkins liked Senna, and Sid seems a sensible chap.

Sid also says wonderful things about Bernie Ecclestone, so I'm rapidly changing my opinion

[nickliv]

Sid says wonderful things about BCE because, back when he had scruples, he helped Sid make tremendous improvements on safety, in particular in helping Sid exert pressure over circuit operators in order to get things brought up to scratch. Came as a real surprise to me too when I read Sids first book, knowing more of BCE now than I was aware of back then.

[Lazy B'stard]

Jenks also adored Senna. If I have to single out one motor sporting hero it has to be Jenks. I also have a soft spot for BCE. Yes he is a bit of a tw*t sometimes, but you have to hand it to him, he has transformed F1. There is an element of panto villain about him but he has always fought his corner and stood up for what he believes is right (wether right or wrong is a matter of debate). Those who do know the real BCE always speak kindly of him, so I suspect he has a good side. I sometimes wish we had Bernie running the country. We certainly would  not be in the sh*t with him at the helm!

As for Senna and the film. I dislike both.

[Jules G]

So how shall I tell my 12 year old to stick the senna DVD as he bought it for my birthday, or shall I watch it once or shall I list it on the sell and swap thread

Answers on a postcard please

[Grand_Fromage]

It was actually in qualifying for the SAME race and the day before Senna's demise.

Roland Ratzenberger, (Le Mans competitor as well) who also lost his life at San Marino the previous race.

In fact, Max Mosely (to his credit) went to Roland's funeral when all the big names and media were obsessing over Senna's.

[Fran]

he bought it for my birthday,

I hope you will do what any gracious person would on receiving an awkward gift!

Say thanks thats brilliant, watch it (preferably with him) pointing out any good bits (there must be something there), pointing out also "that doesnt seem very sporting behaviour" where appropriate, and then leave it on your DVD shelf!

[Martini...LB]

Good call Fran, very diplomatic.

You could also tell him he could borrow it if he wanted to...

>Martini...LB

[Stu]

It was actually in qualifying for the SAME race and the day before Senna's demise.

Roland Ratzenberger, (Le Mans competitor as well) who also lost his life at San Marino the previous race.

In fact, Max Mosely (to his credit) went to Roland's funeral when all the big names and media were obsessing over Senna's.

It did come out a bit wrong but thats what I meant. 2 litres of red wine to blame 

[Jules G]

he bought it for my birthday,

I hope you will do what any gracious person would on receiving an awkward gift!

Say thanks thats brilliant, watch it (preferably with him) pointing out any good bits (there must be something there), pointing out also "that doesnt seem very sporting behaviour" where appropriate, and then leave it on your DVD shelf!

Good shout Fran