Ticket Ordering for 2011

[Grand_Fromage]

I had an extensive meeting earlier this week with a Le Mans ticket/tour operator.

The gist of the problem is this; the ACO recently tightened-up on the reselling of tickets. For ticket resellers to buy from the ACO, they have to pay a substantial membership fee to join the club of official ACO agents (sound familiar?) and then apply for an allocation of grandstand/camping tickets. The ACO ticketing department then have a think about it for a while then send each agent a list of what wishes have been granted, well in advance of tickets going on sale to ACO members and the general public. This allows the agents time to plan and print brochures etc. Agents do not enjoy the discount given to members, they pay the cover price and have to add a commission on top of that to cover admin+credit card percentage. In the end, they make almost nothing on just a ticket sale alone. They have to sell other trackside benefits or ferry crossings to make it a viable business. Unless the ticket/travel operators get first crack at the allocation, they couldn't function.

Unfortunately, by the time the website opens to ACO member booking, quite a lot of the available places have already been allocated. This leads to discontent among ACO members who thought that membership gave them a significant advantage. The ACO have no idea as to how much unsold allocation they may get back from the tour operators, so they have waiting lists.

If we want certainty and a true first crack at allocation, CA needs to form an alliance of some kind with an official ticket/tour operator. Such a cooperation already exists for the Radio Le Mans travel club, but RLM take a percentage. If we were to do something similar, we would put any commission percentage into the CA charity fund. So folks, put in your order for 2012 (too late already for 2011) and your wishes may be granted if we can get a large enough group together. I'll start a thread for 2012 bookings and we can start right now. It will not be as cheap as going it alone with ACO membership, but if certainty is what you are after then this is the way to get it.

GF

[Robbo]

Don't we already have something like this in place with Team Langoustine??

[Grand_Fromage]

Possibly...

In the past, we could have approached the ACO directly as a 'Club Arnage' group, but now if we were to do that, we would have to pay the 'official agent' membership fee. For instance,(AFAIK) PCGB used to go through an agent, then they went solo, then had to go back to an agent again when the new rules came into force. We just need to muster as large a group as we can, then go fishing for the best deal among the ticket/travel agents.

Don't we already have something like this in place with Team Langoustine??

[DelBoy]

Once again, this strikes me as treating the symptom rather than the malaise!!

Are you now saying, GF, that you don't think there is any chance of 'educating' the ACO, and asking them to come up with a more equitable solution for ACO members?? 

There must be several possible solutions to the problem, but if the ACO do not know that many of us:

-  want to camp together on a site of our choice
-  do not want trackside (or other) hospitality
-  are quite happy to buy our own ferry tickets
-  etc, etc

......then they will probably not even be thinking of a solution.

Del

[Grand_Fromage]

Very true, it treats the symptom not the problem, but it doesn't stop us from also approaching the ACO with our points of view. We can even bring it up in discussion as a kind of 'look what you made us do'.

Once again, this strikes me as treating the symptom rather than the malaise!!

Are you now saying, GF, that you don't think there is any chance of 'educating' the ACO, and asking them to come up with a more equitable solution for ACO members?? 

There must be several possible solutions to the problem, but if the ACO do not know that many of us:

-  want to camp together on a site of our choice
-  do not want trackside (or other) hospitality
-  are quite happy to buy our own ferry tickets
-  etc, etc

......then they will probably not even be thinking of a solution.

Del

[Nordic]

I does strike me that sometimes we can come across a bit like spoilt brats. Just because we have been mostly going for eons is there an assumption that we should get first choice on tickets?

Granted if the ACO had a scheme where its members are assured of a 24 hour period where they can advance book tickets it would help, but I suspect the ACO have found that even then demand would outstrip supply.

Speaking for myself I am not one for huge groups and would prefer to be in my own little corner doing my own thing, miserable bugger that I am.

I have used many means to get the tickets I want, ACO, agencies and the sell and swap section. Never been let down yet, not got anything sorted for 2011 and may even give it a miss, but if we do go, sure something will turn up and we will claim a spot on HA or another favored site.

Was toying with trying the TL Terte Rouge site but nearly fainted at the cost and feel it may be a bit up market for me!

I think it all went downhill from when they stopped selling tickets on the gate, but I guess those days are gone and to a large extent we are at the mercy of the ACO.

Well done GF for tackling the problem with the ACO, hopefully you have some pull with them (or photos of the ceo humping a sheep dressed as a cow singing the french National anthem) and maybe devise a system that is seen to be better.

[termietermite]

I think what is depressing many is the fact that the so-called "priority" booking which we were offered as a result of the new membership packages, merely meant that we could buy the same as any other member of the public, but reserve them in advance and pay for them earlier also.  Not much of an incentive to renew.  It thus seems to me that for the cost of my membership, I could subscribe to this group effort which the Cheese is proposing.

The flaw for me in this is a) I do like the members' collectors' pack and b) I want to sit in the ACO grandstand. 

Now, I may have misunderstood, but I was under the impression  that the ACO  members' grandstand was for members.  Call me nuts, but is this unreasonable?  Thus when, on days one, two, three and beyond when there were no ACO grandstand tickets available on the brand new website, I smelt something like a large barrel full of fish.  If this grandstand is exclusively for us and we have only two seats per member - who bought all the seats at 7am on day 1?  When the seats did finally appear, there were none available together and it is only by great good fortune and perhaps an ability to communicate in French and play the disabled card to boot, that I have finally got two seats together.

Now, GF, are you telling me that these seats are sold by agents?  How can this be if they are for members?  What the f*ck is that about?

If I book via this new scheme, then will we get back together as a group on MB?

Is it worth cultivating our relationship with Team Langoustine somewhat further and combining with them in GF's proposal, thus improving our clout and our financial base, but asking for places in the campsites we want (Houx, MB, wherever) and grandstands?  If we want the same campsite but don't necessarily want to be together (I admit that, like Nordic, I have already asked for a pitch "on the fringe" of the CA enclave as my o/h goes nuts when it's noisy and he wants to sleep), will this be possible or is it "in a heap or nowt"?

If we do this, can we get ACO grandstand seats or can this only be booked via the website?  If we can, that that brings me back to my first point - why are these ever sold via agents if they are for members?   

This needs a lot of thinking about. 

[Barry]

Bleu Nord tickets went on sale on the website today.

[Grand_Fromage]

It is still true that to buy ACO grandstand tickets from the ACO you need to be a member of the ACO, but you don't need to be a member of the ACO to sit in the ACO stand. I'll ask some questions if ACO seats being made available outside the ACO.

One thing I rather suspect is that the long standing unofficial 'pencil in' of members who buy seats year-on-year may still be operating rather like a debenture system. I'll see if I can get any answers....

I think what is depressing many is the fact that the so-called "priority" booking which we were offered as a result of the new membership packages, merely meant that we could buy the same as any other member of the public, but reserve them in advance and pay for them earlier also.  Not much of an incentive to renew.  It thus seems to me that for the cost of my membership, I could subscribe to this group effort which the Cheese is proposing.

The flaw for me in this is a) I do like the members' collectors' pack and b) I want to sit in the ACO grandstand.  

Now, I may have misunderstood, but I was under the impression  that the ACO  members' grandstand was for members.  Call me nuts, but is this unreasonable?  Thus when, on days one, two, three and beyond when there were no ACO grandstand tickets available on the brand new website, I smelt something like a large barrel full of fish.  If this grandstand is exclusively for us and we have only two seats per member - who bought all the seats at 7am on day 1?  When the seats did finally appear, there were none available together and it is only by great good fortune and perhaps an ability to communicate in French and play the disabled card to boot, that I have finally got two seats together.

Now, GF, are you telling me that these seats are sold by agents?  How can this be if they are for members?  What the f*ck is that about?

If I book via this new scheme, then will we get back together as a group on MB?

Is it worth cultivating our relationship with Team Langoustine somewhat further and combining with them in GF's proposal, thus improving our clout and our financial base, but asking for places in the campsites we want (Houx, MB, wherever) and grandstands?  If we want the same campsite but don't necessarily want to be together (I admit that, like Nordic, I have already asked for a pitch "on the fringe" of the CA enclave as my o/h goes nuts when it's noisy and he wants to sleep), will this be possible or is it "in a heap or nowt"?

If we do this, can we get ACO grandstand seats or can this only be booked via the website?  If we can, that that brings me back to my first point - why are these ever sold via agents if they are for members?  

This needs a lot of thinking about.  

[termietermite]

Bleu Nord tickets went on sale on the website today.

Here we go again!   I booked a pitch on BSJ for my friends who are coming with us, because there didn't seem to be an alternative and now BN is available.  This is the kind of thing that we need to find out about - why is this happening?  I can't cancel the BSJ spot now so they're stuck with it.  Happily they are young, fit and French and are just happy to come along.  But I feel as if I have been conned into buying  inferior spots. 

Thanks, GF, for your response - it really would be interesting to know what the mindset is. 

The ACO has been very good to me but I feel I have only got what I wanted by booking seats all over the place, regardless of cost, and waiting until they joined the dots - I also feel that a lot of this is about the sympathetic staff on the ground, rather than those who make policy.  Whether the fact that I've had the same order for the last 12 years and have been a member for only a slightly shorter time has made a difference, I do not know.  But it is telling that those who have been on the "preferred" list for years, have been asked to join the ACO to benefit from the priority service.  Thus I'm still not convinced that it's about priority customers, but it will be good to know.

Marketing was my profession and sorry, but the ACO is cr*p at it.

[bob]

Don't want to be with big group or boom boom

music just want ticket for a BN pitch

[Grand_Fromage]

We don't necessarily have to arrive at the track in a group, we just need to buy tickets in a group to get the ACO to take notice.

Don't want to be with big group or boom boom

music just want ticket for a BN pitch

[termietermite]

It seems to me, Bob, that if we do have a big block of tickets then we actually could have more control over this, not less.  If we were all together or, better still and perfectly possible given how the ACO have dealt with TL in the past, then we could have a "quiet" and a "noisy" group and could select which we prefer - there's nothing at all to stop us partying together but, like you, I really need somewhere where the cars are the major noise, not music or some footie match so that I have more chance of sleeping and not having to listen to my o/h grumbling about other people appalling taste in music .

Nowhere on an LM campsite is ever guaranteed quiet, let's face it, and we can hardly stop anybody having a good time, especially given that this is a motor race with a great big week-long party attached, or vice versa!    But we could perhaps have a relatively peaceful enclave on a site we want to be on, not too far from all our mates.  A plan?

[Kristof]

Nowhere on an LM campsite is ever guaranteed quiet, let's face it, and we can hardly stop anybody having a good time, especially given that this is a motor race with a great big week-long party attached, or vice versa!    But we could perhaps have a relatively peaceful enclave on a site we want to be on, not too far from all our mates.  A plan?

Great plan !

In the past, we could have approached the ACO directly as a 'Club Arnage' group, but now if we were to do that, we would have to pay the 'official agent' membership fee.

Any idea how much that "official agent membership fee" would be ? 
Maybe it's worth considering to pay that fee, and add it to the ticketprices that would be sold to CA members ?  I'd rather pay extra to CA than to an external ticket agency.  If CA could become an official agent, you'd have complete control over the tickets, camping ... and it would be easy to divide a campsite into a "quiet" and "party" area.

[Grand_Fromage]

If memory serves me right the fee to join the 'club' of agents is in the region of £2000, so we would have to get rather a big group together. It was too steep for the Porsche Club GB, who now go through an agent. If we were to go through the travel company I spoke to last week, they could do it on the same basis as they do for the 'Radio Le Mans Travel Club'. RLM advertise the 'travel club' and get a % for each sale. We could work on a similar basis but put the money into the CA charity fund. One minor drawback of the plan is that we would not get ACO members' discounted rates, we would only get the normal advance purchase rate, but of course, all things are negotiable...

I have seen how much organisation goes into sending out packages of tickets. If we went completely solo on this,  we could have a contingent of 200+ packages to sort, collate, check contents and mailing address and post out. It is not a trivial job. I would rather leave that responsibility to a travel company.

Nowhere on an LM campsite is ever guaranteed quiet, let's face it, and we can hardly stop anybody having a good time, especially given that this is a motor race with a great big week-long party attached, or vice versa!    But we could perhaps have a relatively peaceful enclave on a site we want to be on, not too far from all our mates.  A plan?

Great plan !

In the past, we could have approached the ACO directly as a 'Club Arnage' group, but now if we were to do that, we would have to pay the 'official agent' membership fee.

Any idea how much that "official agent membership fee" would be ? 
Maybe it's worth considering to pay that fee, and add it to the ticketprices that would be sold to CA members ?  I'd rather pay extra to CA than to an external ticket agency.  If CA could become an official agent, you'd have complete control over the tickets, camping ... and it would be easy to divide a campsite into a "quiet" and "party" area.