Ticket Ordering for 2011

[powermite]

is there any clue as to when the practice day will be?

PM

[Grand_Fromage]

Sunday 24th April - Provisional

http://www.lemans.org/en/news/ACO-unveils-its-2011-calendar_1992.html

[Barry]

I had a (very small) part in the launch of the new ticketing system and I've worked on and off for the ACO for the last ten years or so. What you might already know is that selling tickets for the 24 hours is not a major function of the ACO branch offices, particularly when you are talking about booking campsites. I can assure you that the ACO are not trying to con us as you are suggesting. What they do may not always work out as planned, but they DO have the members interests at heart. What they don't appreciate well enough is the fact that for most Brits who go to Le Mans, the social campsite experience is every bit as important as the racing (in some cases much more important). They have the idea that so long as you get a campsite place they have done enough, the location is not a big issue. They put much more importance on grandstand seating, and the members only period is geared around THAT rather than camping. I do my best to educate the frogs but as you know, you can always tell a Frenchman, but you can't tell him much!

So if the agencies ticket allocations have been reduced, where are all the tickets?

Tetre Rouge, Expo, Maison Blanche, Bleu Nord & Sud, Karting Nord, that was a lot of tickets that the ACO used to sell.

If I was in France, and had bought an ACO membership on the basis of priorty booking I would be demanding my money back.
Blatent case of mis-selling.
The way the British members of the ACO have been treated has been a compleat disgrace, and the ACO ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Don't forget the campers, who the ACO seem to regard as second class citizens, put a lot of money directly into the local economy.

Please feel free to pass these comments onto your contacts at the ACO.

[Lawnmower Man]

I had a (very small) part in the launch of the new ticketing system and I've worked on and off for the ACO for the last ten years or so. What you might already know is that selling tickets for the 24 hours is not a major function of the ACO branch offices, particularly when you are talking about booking campsites. I can assure you that the ACO are not trying to con us as you are suggesting. What they do may not always work out as planned, but they DO have the members interests at heart. What they don't appreciate well enough is the fact that for most Brits who go to Le Mans, the social campsite experience is every bit as important as the racing (in some cases much more important). They have the idea that so long as you get a campsite place they have done enough, the location is not a big issue. They put much more importance on grandstand seating, and the members only period is geared around THAT rather than camping. I do my best to educate the frogs but as you know, you can always tell a Frenchman, but you can't tell him much!

So if the agencies ticket allocations have been reduced, where are all the tickets?

Tetre Rouge, Expo, Maison Blanche, Bleu Nord & Sud, Karting Nord, that was a lot of tickets that the ACO used to sell.

If I was in France, and had bought an ACO membership on the basis of priorty booking I would be demanding my money back.
Blatent case of mis-selling.
The way the British members of the ACO have been treated has been a compleat disgrace, and the ACO ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Don't forget the campers, who the ACO seem to regard as second class citizens, put a lot of money directly into the local economy.

Please feel free to pass these comments onto your contacts at the ACO.

I have to agree with you Barry.   I paid €98 for VIP membership.  So far I've not recieved the normal package with this years program and Results etc.  Despite being on the site minutes after it "went live" and several times a day for the following week  I have not been able to book any ACO Tribune 17/18 tickets. 

So right now I'm what you might call brassed off with the ACO.

€98 pour rien du tout.

I strikes me they don't want me there.  They may just get their wish!!!!! 

I'd be intrested in their definition of  VIP.

There is nothing that one could describe as complex about what they sell.   

t.

[redstu]

I had a (very small) part in the launch of the new ticketing system and I've worked on and off for the ACO for the last ten years or so. What you might already know is that selling tickets for the 24 hours is not a major function of the ACO branch offices, particularly when you are talking about booking campsites. I can assure you that the ACO are not trying to con us as you are suggesting. What they do may not always work out as planned, but they DO have the members interests at heart. What they don't appreciate well enough is the fact that for most Brits who go to Le Mans, the social campsite experience is every bit as important as the racing (in some cases much more important). They have the idea that so long as you get a campsite place they have done enough, the location is not a big issue. They put much more importance on grandstand seating, and the members only period is geared around THAT rather than camping. I do my best to educate the frogs but as you know, you can always tell a Frenchman, but you can't tell him much!

So if the agencies ticket allocations have been reduced, where are all the tickets?

Tetre Rouge, Expo, Maison Blanche, Bleu Nord & Sud, Karting Nord, that was a lot of tickets that the ACO used to sell.

If I was in France, and had bought an ACO membership on the basis of priorty booking I would be demanding my money back.
Blatent case of mis-selling.
The way the British members of the ACO have been treated has been a compleat disgrace, and the ACO ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Don't forget the campers, who the ACO seem to regard as second class citizens, put a lot of money directly into the local economy.

Please feel free to pass these comments onto your contacts at the ACO.

I have to agree with you Barry.   I paid €98 for VIP membership.  So far I've not recieved the normal package with this years program and Results etc.  Despite being on the site minutes after it "went live" and several times a day for the following week  I have not been able to book any ACO Tribune 17/18 tickets. 

So right now I'm what you might call brassed off with the ACO.

€98 pour rien du tout.

I strikes me they don't want me there.  They may just get their wish!!!!! 

I'd be intrested in their definition of  VIP.

There is nothing that one could describe as complex about what they sell.   

t.

Im in a similar position , but not interested in the tribunes only the camping. 
I'll have to hope that I get BN as I did last year by applying in the usual fashion.
At least I'll get almost all the cost back by ordering 6 passes and 6 GAs.
And access to clean toilets!

[Kpy]

What you might already know is that selling tickets for the 24 hours is not a major function of the ACO branch offices, particularly when you are talking about booking campsites.

Strange. This from the current ACO billeterie page:

Pour les membres ACO :
Nous vous invitons à choisir parmi les modes de réservation suivants :

► ticket.lemans.org pour réserver et payer en ligne

► l’une des 12 agences locales de l’ACO :

    * Angers : 02 41 88 40 22 ; 7, pl. de la République
    * Brest : 02 98 44 32 89 ; 9, rue de Siam
    * Caen : 02 31 85 47 35 ; 20, av. du 6 juin
    * Lorient : 02 97 21 03 07 ; 61, rue du Mal Foch
    * Le Mans : 02 43 14 23 49 ; 60, av. du Gal Leclerc
    * Nantes : 02 40 48 11 11 ; 6, bd. G. Guist’hau
    * Paris : 01 44 90 00 24 ; 118, bd. Haussmann
    * Poitiers : 05 49 55 28 20 ; 2, rue Claveurier
    * Rennes : 02 99 79 11 11 ; 40, bd. de la Liberté
    * Rouen : 02 35 71 44 89 ; 30, quai de Paris
    * Saint-Brieuc : 02 96 33 16 20 ; 6, pl. Duguesclin
    * Tours : 02 47 05 11 11 ; 13, pl. de la Liberté

 
Are you seriously suggesting that this implies that we should not choose that option?

I can assure you that the ACO are not trying to con us as you are suggesting.

The con is this:
The ACO solicited membership for "VIP Passion 24" offering:
Nouveauté 2010 :UN ACCÈS PRIORITAIRE À LA RÉSERVATION
de places en tribunes et aires d'accueil pendant les 24 Heures du Mans 2011.
but so far the only camping tickets that have been available to members are for the campsites south of the axe 1st chicane to Porsche Curves along with the very unattractive Members Rouge site. All these sites were still available for this year's race in April of this year. Why should anyone want to reserve and pay for a place on one of these camping sites now?

What they do may not always work out as planned, but they DO have the members interests at heart. What they don't appreciate well enough is the fact that for most Brits who go to Le Mans, the social campsite experience is every bit as important as the racing (in some cases much more important). They have the idea that so long as you get a campsite place they have done enough, the location is not a big issue. They put much more importance on grandstand seating, and the members only period is geared around THAT rather than camping.

The ACO has access to its own sales figures and knows perfectly well that there is far greater pressure on campsite accomodation than on grandstand seating. For the 2010 race only the two ACO stands and Dunlop were sold out until quite late in the day.

The plain fact is that Passion 24 VIP members who want to camp on Houx, Houx Annex, Tertre Rouge, Karting Nord, Expo, Maison Blanche, Bleu Nord or Bleu Sud are going to have to buy their tickets from an agent. That agent will not only charge well over face value for the camping pass, but also insist on us buying two general entry tickets at equally inflated prices for each camping pass. That neatly negates the members right to GA tickets at a discount.

I'd love to be proved wrong.

Edit:

What they don't appreciate well enough is the fact that for most Brits who go to Le Mans, the social campsite experience is every bit as important as the racing (in some cases much more important). They have the idea that so long as you get a campsite place they have done enough, the location is not a big issue.

Wanting to be on a decent site has nothing to do with any "social campsite experience" as far as I'm concerned. It's to do with access to the the Village and Start/Finish area, along with decent washing facilites, electricity and water. It's a 2.5 plus km walk from anywhere on the Beausejour group of sites to the Village.

[termietermite]

Like you, Mr Cheese, I've been an appologist for the ACO for a long time.  I think that at the very least their staff on the front lines are polite, charming and helpful and I have nothing but praise for them as I believe they do a great job against the impossible odds of dealing often in a foreign language with an idiot system.

Sadly this latest attempt to offer a better service has been ill conceived and poorly implemented.  They may well have pulled out all the stops to get this up and running by the due date but it was a date that they set themselves in arbitrary fashion.  Far better to have put it off another month than release this joke.  I cannot give them the excuse that it was in "a language I don't understand" as, like Kpy, I understand them perfectly, thanks very much.

Having failed to book on line the first morning whilst simultaneously having the phone on continuous re-dial trying to get through to the phone number on the letter, I went into the "ticket office" at the circuit later in the day.  There I was told by the staff that they did not have the software to sell tickets and that I had to go to one of the addresses on the letter , or phone.  I asked them to tell their managers how daft I thought it was that the ticket office didn't sell tickets.  They agreed with me and said that they would be passing on my comment as they had spent the whole day explaining the same thing to a parade of customers (mostly French and locals) who had been in trying to buy tickets as they could not get into the computer or phone system.

When I finally did get through on the phone I was told by the woman on the line that the system was in a complete mess but that she would take a provisional booking although she had no idea what was still available. 

I explained my requirments and made it plain to her that I needed the ACO grandstand as it's the only one with handrails so it's the only one I can use.  I also explained that  I need a campsite with level access to the village and grandstands so my o/h can push me.  "There are special grandstands for wheelchairs," she explained.  Yes, says I, but one has no cover and the other is below the catch fencing and both are a long way from the loos and refreshments, thus it's the ACO one for me and I have had tickets for this for the last ten years which I have got with no problem by following the system and booking the year before. 

It is mad that a grandstand which is only open to members anyway, is completely full before the members even get a chance to book seats in it. Who are the people who managed to get seats?  Are they being sold through agencies and if so, why?   They are for us members, aren't they? 

By the time the ACO grandstand appeared on the website, it was shown not as sold out but as having all the seats in it reserved with just a few showing as "sold."  I e-mailed the ACO again and asked them if the booking I had made on the phone was one of the reservations.  I had an acknowledgement that they had read it but nothing else.  Next thing, we get a letter to say that the "priority booking" (ha ha) has been extended and that the bookings made by phone would be honoured, subject to availability.  Thus, I still have no idea whether I have tickets reserved in the grandstand or not.

Then suddenly last week, for about an hour, the ACO grandstand tickets appeared once again but by the time I had gone online again and found the postings on here and a pm from somebody giving me the heads up, all the seats were gone again.

Now, I'm not just a member of the ACO for the cheap tickets.  I joined because this is my passion, I joined because the race still gives me a greater buzz than any other. I want to support the race but I'm getting increasingly hacked off at those who run the booking system.  It's time they got better advice on how to market what is a great product instead of relying on it to sell itself, which is what seems to be happening.  In a recession  it does not take much to persuade people to spend their money elsewhere and when a group of people such as we have on here, who are together solely because this race exists, is talking about going elsewhere, is spending less and less money at the circuit, and is losing faith in the organisers (if they had any in the first place) then it's time the ACO took note.

M. Fromage, if you have any influence at all and any way of passing on the feelings of immense frustration which we are all feeling as a result of this latest farce then please do so.  I believe that many of the staff do their best but I reckon that the senior managers either don't care what we think or are just too incompetent to do anything about this.  It's not rocket science - it's a ticket reservations system for goodness's sake.

Priority booking, my *rse.

[Andy Zarse]

Jolly well said Termie.

I have thought this for years. What i can't understand is why any business would consistently refuse to enter into a dialogue with it's core customers to see how it's doing or how things could be improved. I know it's been suggested previously but could Mr Cheese not get a couple of us a non-confrontational audence with someone who might take note? Is that too much to expect?

[Lazy B'stard]

I completely agree with all your sentiments guys. Its an absolute farce this year. Last year i sat and watched the whole race from the comfort of my sofa with as much good food and drink as you can wish for. Hell, even the toilet was clean!
If things don't improve I will be watching the race from said sofa every year and spending my hard earned money travelling to Sebring or Spa instead!

[termietermite]

Mr Cheese, if we put together a properly thought-out summary of our frustrations and suggestions, would anybody listen?  If a couple of us offered to go along and chat to the ACO as Andy suggests, would a senior person turn up?

[Grand_Fromage]

Where the ACO is concerned, it is invariably more cock-up than conspiracy. For instance, nobody at the ACO thought to make an English version of the online ticketing system until the very last minute. It was then implemented in an unholy rush. I know that there are cynics out there that think the ACO just want to gouge us for the maximum amount of money. All I can say is that I've seen no first hand evidence either as a customer or from within. What I HAVE seen is well intentioned but sometimes misguided projects.

Kpy: I didn't say it was NOT a function of branch offices, it is just not a priority for them. Also, I reiterate my comment on campsites; the ACO don't appreciate the relative importance of campsite allocation, and they are over-concerned with grandstand seating.

If we did put together a list of our complaints/suggestions they probably would see us and the people we talk to would probably listen. I wouldn't hold out a great hope that it might change anything, but at least we can say we tried.

And another thing.. If you think that the big resellers of tickets and travel companies get a better deal then think on, they face the same issues that we face, just on a larger scale. I was speaking to the boss of perhaps the largest UK tour operator for Le Mans who said that they are equally kept in the dark and guessing as to what they might get.

Mr Cheese, if we put together a properly thought-out summary of our frustrations and suggestions, would anybody listen?  If a couple of us offered to go along and chat to the ACO as Andy suggests, would a senior person turn up?

[Barry]

I was speaking to the boss of perhaps the largest UK tour operator for Le Mans who said that they are equally kept in the dark and guessing as to what they might get.

Don't mind the mark up on camping tickets, but the GA scam is a disgrace.
Do the ACO condon profitering on this scale?
Are they so incompetant that they don't realize what is going on?


My 2000th post, what a depressing subject. What date is SPA?

[Lorry]

I don't think that anyone suggest that the ACO are trying to rob us.  Its the other way round - we feel sorry for them, as they sell a £50 ticket to an agent, who then charges us £70.  I'd rather pay the ACO £60 so we both win.

Money talks.  So lets guess some figures.  Agencies must sell tickets to about 20,000 Brits, at about £100 each, with a £25 markup, so the ACO are throwing away half a million pounds by being such a pain in the @rse to deal with 

[Grand_Fromage]

As I understand it, the ACO wholesale ticket allocations to travel operators on the understanding that they provide 'added value' for customers. That means selling you a ticket in conjunction with some other service, and not just a ticket alone.  That is the justification for the mark-up.

One problem the ACO face is that most of the 'campsites' they provide can't be called 'camping' under the French legal interpretation of that word, because they lack the amenities that description would suggest. There is also the annual shuffle around of campsite boundaries, the creation of 'new' sites and the renaming of old ones, some of which is outside the ACO's direct control because the land belongs to the city council or other 3rd party.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to collect a set of questions, grievances and suggestions to be presented to the ACO in early 2011. Too late for LM 2011 alas, but in time to make improvements for 2012.

 

 

[Rhino]

I'd love to have a business where my customers were willing to pay nearly a year in advance.
They must potentialy lose a fortune every year.