Monaco GP Penalty Farce

[Robbo]

Your right Chris, everyone's entitled to their opinion.  I've always thought Schumacher a complete jerk, and he's done nothing to change my opinion.  As for Sunday, yes the race officials screwed things up by pulling in the safety car like that on the last lap, but did Schumacher seriously think they were going to throw the green flag with one hundred yards to go in the race?  Everyone else had enough sense to realize what the situation was...
Fax

Makes you wonder if Ferrari knew the rules why Alonso felt the need to go sideways after getting on the throttle too hard thus allowing Schui to get past!

[Robbo]

At the end of the day, anyone with an ounce of common sense, and an understanding of motor racing knows that when the field starts the last lap with the yellow flag displayed and the safety car deployed in front of the field, its game over.
Chris you yourself have been a fan of the US disciplines of the sport where this is a regular scenerio.  I've always personally found the use of a safety car on road courses ridiculous, but that's another argument altogether.  Again, the Monaco officials screwed things up by pulling the safety car as the field exited Rascasse, but Michaels a grown man, he should know the regulations.
Fax

I'm not sure you are fully aware of the new rules regarding the pace car in F1!

Common sense says leave the pace car out to cross the line and take the chequered flag but because of the "show" they decide to pull the pace car. If you pull the pace car, the race is back on - simple as that! Even if it is for 200 yards!

The "show" is the reason for the change in NASCAR finishes isn't it?

[termietermite]

It was a mess which was f*cked up because of contradictary rules which had not been well thought through.  I'd have divided the available points up between the two drivers and left it at that, then re-written the rule book to make it unequivocal.  Because now it's just going to run and run and damage even further a sport which is already going down the pan.

[jpchenet]

Surely, EVERYONE knows that when the safety car turns it lights out it means it will come in at the end of that lap and racing then begins after the cars go over the start/finish line, not from the second the car pulls off! There is no differentiation in the rules applying to the last lap!

In fact, from the F1 site

"When the race controller orders the safety car to leave the track again, a similarly exact procedure is followed. At the start of its final lap the safety car will turn off its orange flashing lights. Competitors must still remain behind in formation, but they know that at the beginning of the next lap they will be racing again. The safety car will pull off into the pits at the end of the lap and - as they cross the line - the competitors restart their battle."

Simples! :-)

[Robbo]

Surely, EVERYONE knows that when the safety car turns it lights out it means it will come in at the end of that lap and racing then begins after the cars go over the start/finish line, not from the second the car pulls off! There is no differentiation in the rules applying to the last lap!

In fact, from the F1 site

"When the race controller orders the safety car to leave the track again, a similarly exact procedure is followed. At the start of its final lap the safety car will turn off its orange flashing lights. Competitors must still remain behind in formation, but they know that at the beginning of the next lap they will be racing again. The safety car will pull off into the pits at the end of the lap and - as they cross the line - the competitors restart their battle."

Simples! :-)

There is now a new safety car line which is before the start/finish line. Once the pace car has left the circuit, you can overtake from that line, however this doesn't apply on the last lap of a race!

[knetter]

I am sorry Robbo, but you are wrong. The overtaking is only allowed after the start finish line has been crossed, once the safety car pulls in. Has been that way for ages, so Schumi is the one who f**ked up, not the stewards of the meeting and therefore his penalty was just.

[Robbo]

I am sorry Robbo, but you are wrong. The overtaking is only allowed after the start finish line has been crossed, once the safety car pulls in. Has been that way for ages, so Schumi is the one who f**ked up, not the stewards of the meeting and therefore his penalty was just.

Not correct!
The rule has been changed this year!
That's why there is a new line - After pit entry and before the start/finish line.

His penalty is just because that rule does not apply to the last lap of a race.
The point to ponder is why stop the overtaking on the last lap?
The FIA don't want a safety car to take the chequered flag so they bring in the safety car then expect racing drivers to stay in queue like good little boys over the line even though the track is clear for racing!

Well done Schui for trying it - I'm sure Hamilton or Alonso (who obviously did hence the sideways!) would have done the same.
Hopefully this will prompt the FIA to drop this stupid rule!

Imagine this scenario on a track with a long drag to the line???

[Kpy]

No Knetter

Article 40.7 of the sporting regulations has been amended, so that the second paragraph now commences:

With the following exceptions, overtaking is forbidden until the cars reach the first safety car line after the safety car has returned to the pits: ...

However Article 40.13 states:

If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

Thus the first safety car line is the point at which which drivers may overtake once the safety car has pulled off, unless that happens on the last lap, when Article 40.13 applies.

 

[Nordic]

Good for Damon, sixteen years ago Schumacher screwed Damon out of the title at Adelaide. As we like to say over here...Paybacks are hell!

Matter of opinion that one Fax, Damon lost the title himself. All he had to do was wait a few corners or a lap or whatever and Michael would have been out and Damon taken the title. Instead he chose to try and pass Schumy and the rest is history. Michael had every right to regain the track and since he was also in front going into the next corner, he also had the right to turn in, damaged car or not. Also how was Michael supposed to evaluate the full extent of his damage in less than 100 yards of race track.

Utter rubbish! Of coarse Hill was going to make a pass, as you rightly pointed out, if MS did not know the extent of the damage to his car how would Hill? for all he knew MS may have been able to carry on.

He saw a chance to pass and had every right to do so without his rival turning into him.

Aside from that, if that was the only example then fair enough, but when you add in the JV crash there is only so much benfit of the doubt any one driver deserves.

[oldtimer]

There is, of course, a simple solution to this problem and it will stop any such argument in the future.  Run the entire race behind the safety car... the event would be just as exciting as it is nowadays.

[knetter]

No Knetter

Article 40.7 of the sporting regulations has been amended, so that the second paragraph now commences:

With the following exceptions, overtaking is forbidden until the cars reach the first safety car line after the safety car has returned to the pits: ...

However Article 40.13 states:

If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

Thus the first safety car line is the point at which which drivers may overtake once the safety car has pulled off, unless that happens on the last lap, when Article 40.13 applies.

 

Well if that is the case, why did the team not tell him not to pass, they should know the rules!

[termietermite]

Mercedes have already said they will not pursue this.

As said above, to my mind (even more so now that the FIA have admitted to having caused the farce in the first place) they should add up the points available and divide them in two as though they had crossed the line together.  But I still reckon Alonso was trying so he thought the same as Schuey did.  I don't have any time for MS myself but in this case he was at least half in the right.

[nopanic - neil]

Mercedes have already said they will not pursue this.

As said above, to my mind (even more so now that the FIA have admitted to having caused the farce in the first place) they should add up the points available and divide them in two as though they had crossed the line together.  But I still reckon Alonso was trying so he thought the same as Schuey did.  I don't have any time for MS myself but in this case he was at least half in the right.

Mercedes - Ross Brawn, when he was being interviewed, by BBC, just after the race, he had all photos, timings and everything to defend his position. As if nothing was going to prove them wrong (Crumbs, he even showed the BBC full colour pics from the in-car camera at the overtaking point) - What made them change their mind?

Also MS as far I could see just did what anybody would have done, FIA caused confusion with the regs, and all MS did was go thru the open door left open by the FIA, so to speak .

Next time to decide the result, how about a duel challenge, my way, which would have been great for TV.

We not talking about duelling pistols, but some thing in keeping with the sport, like racing the cars at each over and who chickens out first, or drag racing 1/4 mile (both a bit to dangerous) so may be,champagne bottles cork firing - who can hit a moving Bernie at 20 metres.

Something like that or any other ideas for a duel? - Anyway still beats waiting hours for results from the Marshalls.

And think of the ratings, I'd watch a race to see what would happen to good ol' Bernie.  

The more I think about the last one is the best, could even get the public to design the games - a sort of  "Bernie Jeux Sans Frontières"