Club Arnage

As the "senior serving" on the forum (so it is alleged), it may be advancing age but this year seems to have flown by, as the clock has almost ticked around again to mark Remembrance Day, and with that, a gentle reminder....

The 9th of November is the day this year, marking 90 years since the Armistice Day of World War One, remembering the people that died in that conflict, and the many others around the world since then.  So, please give generously to the British Legion's Poppy Appeal, either here http://www.poppy.org.uk/ (http://www.poppy.org.uk/) or in the collecting tins in the shops, or on the street, over the coming week. 

If you feel it to be right, then wear your poppy with pride but, even if you do not, then I would simply ask that you still contribute, in recognition of the many who have made the ultimate sacrifice that preserve the right for you to choose.  And, amidst the hectic lives of today, if you can spare a moment for a private or collective act of remembrance on Sunday, and on the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, then that would be good too.

Two minute’s silence is a small price to pay
To remember our dead on Armistice Day.
So find one name marked on a grave,
But do not mourn the life he gave;
Just think about the man below,
Who lived and died, maybe years ago,
And remember him as uncle, father, or son;
Only then will his final battle be won.

Remember the fallen - care for the living,

Thank you,

MG Mark

Another good way of donating, is to text the word POPPY to 80848, only costs £1.50, Poppy appeal receives 90p

Done.

That's easier than me getting in my car & going to look for a collector.

Landman

Bearing in mind a text costs about 5 pence, what happens to the othe 55p?  ???

Network provider's profit I suspect Andy.  Bastards!

Dx

I took my money to the box at Tesco and can be sure all of it gets to those that truly deserve it, Tesco watch the boxes like hawks to protect them.

but a chunk of money is far better than no money for the RBL so a text payment is fairy nuff

bill

Plus you get a downloadable poppy screensaver, very cool.

There are now only 5 Brits still alive who served in the Great War - equitably, there is now one each from the Army, RN and RFC who live in the UK (aged 112, 110 and 108 years) and 2 others in Australia.  All 3 from the UK, Henry Allingham, Harry Patch and Bill Stone, God or whoever looks after us willing, will be at the Cenotaph on Sunday to lead the wreath laying.  Of those 3, from a light blue viewpoint, Henry Allingham is our man, being the last survivor of the Battle of Jutland, served on the Somme and was there in the RFC at the formation of the RAF.  Many went before you, few of you are left now, and many more following in your footsteps. 

I'll be heading for Upwood Cemetery on Sunday, to pay respects to 2nd Lts Albert Parks and 2nd Lt Adam Thompson, who didn't make it to France, but died when training in an FE2b at night with 191st (Night) Training Squadron, Royal Air Force on 7 September 1918.  Then at some point, I will head for the RAF memorial at Runnymede, overlooking the Thames, to do the same for those not fortunate to be found and marked in such an individual way - all 20,239 of them.

MG Mark

This is quite a nice article.  It sums up what I feel in some of these areas of now beautiful and tranquil French countryside where so much devastation happened so many years. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7712321.stm

The Beeb reports today that one of the 5 (108 years old, managed to avoid the trenches due to Armistice Day) has died... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/7712943.stm

Many thanks Mark and others for their words.
As always (being an ex-Merchant Navy engineer officer) I would like to add the words of remembrance on one of the inscriptions on the Merchant Navy Memorial at Tower Hill, London.


http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/british_cemeteries_memorials_ext/tower_hill_mem.htm (http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/british_cemeteries_memorials_ext/tower_hill_mem.htm)

We flew Tony Iveson, one of 617 Sqns surviving aircrew in the BBMF Lancaster last week - first time he'd flown in one since his last trip in one 1945.  An unusual RAF service history, in that he learned to fly in the RAF Volunteer Reserve before the war and then in 1940, he flew with 616 and 92 Fighter Squadrons, flying Spitfires out of Kenley during the Battle of Britain and survived ditching a Spitfire in the North Sea after a combat with a Junkers 88.  After qualifying at the RAF's Central Flying School in 1941, he went on to be a flying instructor in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. On returning to Britain, he was was posted to 617 Sqn in 1944; amongst other operations, he flew on all 3 attacks that 617 made on the Tirpitz.
  
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/DambusterAceFliesTheLancasterAgain.htm (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/DambusterAceFliesTheLancasterAgain.htm)

Which leads neatly into the Bomber Command veterans, who will stage a unique tribute to their 55,73 fallen comrades (Bomber Commands casualty rate was a staggering 44.4% rising to a 60% loss rate if you include 29,839 prisoners of war and over 8,000 wounded) by wearing their Irvine flying jackets and carrying their flying helmets when they lay a wreath at the Cenotaph.  On one raid alone on Nuremburg in March 1944, the Command lost 96 aircraft and with that more men than had died in the whole of the Battle of Britain.  There's a campaign running at the the moment to raise the money for a memorial to the men of Bomber Command, bacause there isn't one.... 

MG Mark

Thanks Mark for stating this thread.
http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/  has pictures of Canada's Bobmer Command memorial.
Moe links to follow
Phil
 

Just finished reading "Bomber Boys", all about these unsung heroes.

Well worth buying, or borrowing from the library.

Landman

It annoyed me last weekend when Lewis Hamilton was described as a hero. A few weeks ago our olympic athletes were described as heroes and footballers are often called such for breaking into a sweat.

 Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Tony Iveson above is a hero. All his comrades, dead or alive are heroes, all our lads serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are heroes. Any serviceman or woman prepared to pay the ultimate price whilst serving their country is a hero.

Our modern society seems to have lost sight of the true meaning of the word hero and hands the accolade out all too easily and for the wrong reasons.

Well put Bob.

part of it is the "political correct society" we now live in, dumping down of everything, so we don't offend the "minorities". Ba$tards should get a grip and realize how bloody close we were to talking German.

I have that book but havent read it yet. 

I picked it up in a charity shop because my dad (DFC) was in Bomber Command and thought it might give a bit of insight into a subject he would never discuss himself.

F

Fran,

It's not what I'd call "an easy read" but well worthwhile your time.

I'm not sure I agree. I cannot see how it's got anything at all to do with political correctness or indeed dumbing down or offending minorities. We simply live in different times to sixty years ago. Sure, all the armed forces are to a greater or lesser extent "heros" but to my mind world class sportsmen, along with aid workers, paramedics, firemen and all sorts of other worthy "unsung" deserve the name "hero".

So who's definition of hero do we use? Lewis, like all racers, risks life and limb. Sure the rewards are huge but so are the risks. Johnny Wilkinson is a true hero in my book. He puts his body on the line for his country and conducts himself in sporting manner. How is that not heroic? It's hardly his fault that he wasn't born in a time when conscription to the trenches was de-rigeur.

There are two equally valid sub-definitions of the word hero:

1.  A remarkably brave person: somebody who commits an act of remarkable bravery or who has shown an admirable quality such as great physical or moral courage, the will for self-sacrifice, and strength of character.

2. Somebody admired: somebody who is admired for outstanding qualities or achievements.

The second definition refers to the cult of personality, which to some degree or another, has the freedom to happen because of the acts of the first.  On Sunday, unless I'm mistaken, it is some of those who fall into the first category that we are remembering.....it's not just about risking life and limb, it's about why you are doing so. 

MG Mark

I think that we know who the true 'heroes' are.

Stand up & salute all of our boys & girls of whatever conflict

 :angel:

Not long got back from our Rememberance parade in Staffordshire. good to see lots of folk out on the freezing rain young and old. Lest we forget, we WILL remember them.

Lots of attendances at places various yesterday from the crew here, either locally in Bucks, or at home elsewhere for those not here at weekends.  Comparing notes over a beer after dinner tonight, the feeling is one of a great deal of support from everyone, for both times past and present, which is heartening and probably ironically brought about by current operations as well the various media campaigns for the 90th to ensure that the past is not forgotten. 

Beginning in 1939, the two-minute silence was moved to the Sunday nearest 11 November so as not to interfere with wartime production should the date fall on a weekday.  Recently, people have observed a two-minute silence on 11 November as well, resulting in both Armistice Day and Remembrance Sunday being commemorated formally in the UK. 

So please pause for a couple of minutes tomorrow, the 11th of the 11th month at 11 o'clock, which is the true moment at which the guns fell silent, because the orders were to continue the advance until that point, and of course casualties were taken even up to that point on the final day......Canadian George Price is recorded as the last soldier killed in the Great War, shot by a German sniper near Mons, and died at 1058.

Thanks to all contributing and/or just reading, and here's the Kohima Epitaph,

When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say,
For Their Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today

Mark

I changed an appointment today which was due to start at 10.30, I think it's important to have an act of collective rememberance tomorrow at 11.00.

PS Chris Z, Simon Z and myself went to the ceremony at the Cenotaph in London yesterday (long story) which meant the alarm went off at 05.00... on a sunday if you please... oh well, it was something I've always wanted to do if for no other reason than to hear Elgar's Nimrod; my own choice of funeral music...  :angel:

Also FWIW, we were right up close to proceedings and we saw Queeny, The DofE (lookin' good for nearly 90), Chas 'n' Horseface, the Boys (William's a very tall lad), Anne in her Navy trousersuit, Zara (up on a balcony, and she is well hot! >:D) Also, saw our gurning slackjawed, one eyed PM G Clown MP, "Call me Dave" Macaroon, oh and that Lib Dem bloke who's name nobody can remember. Finally, also on parade was Mad Thatch having her hand held by John Major, who isn't grey but is looking quite old these days. She used to be Prime Minister you know...

My dear chap,

Indeed, I am impressed - a veritable portfolio of gold stars deserved there - and, seriously, a beer or two from me next time we meet!

Mark

I concur, shame you can't cach us all on friday.

Once again so many good posts on a subject dear to our hearts.
I recently discovered .....
Mount Kuleski
2494m (8182ft.)
Located west of Lladnar Creek and 5 km west of Sparwood. Park, Major headwater Kootenay River.
Latitude 49; 42; 35 Longitude 114; 58; 50, Topo map 82G/10

Mount Kuleski is in the Canadian Rocky Mountains.
Many of you know I always visit either the memorial or the graves of the crew who died in the crash of RCAF Halifax near Arnage.
F/O Stephen Kuleski was the Pilot of that aircraft.
 May 1944

Canada Phil

Maximum respect Andy.  I look forward to hearing the long story on Friday. 

Sadly I have to report that I am absolutely disgusted that the company I work for do not formally mark the Armistice.  Thankfully Hart Council do.  They had a brief gathering at the war memorial next to the council offices here in Fleet, marked the start and end of the two minute silence with canon fire, and councillors said a few words and prayers. 

Looking at the wreaths once it was over my attention was caught by one for a son killed on 1 April 2007, and as much as today is about something that happened 90 years ago it is also about the conflicts that are being fought today, as well as all those that took place in the intervening years.

Dx

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/11/war.vets.photos/index.html

:salute:

total respect to Andy, Chris and Simon, well done.  

And Mark for formally maintaining our composite presence on the commemoration, thanks all.

Doris, I have to say there's no way that you are really MIA, always there when it matters.

All meeting at the end of the week have a good un.

Just a mention about "work" not commemorating Remembrance Day, some of you will recall I was an AA man for many years and although the despatchers always tried to keep the 11 o'clock slot quiet, when they went to 'automatically despatched by the computer' jobs they couldn't make the software do this on a one off basis every year.

But every Remembrance day they sent out a message at shift sign on that we could leave "acknowledging" jobs until the silence was over, without penalty.

"Ack-ing" on receipt was expected at the rest of the year.

Just a small thing but I respected them for that (if little else)

Well done everyone.  This is our first year in a new building at work and I wondered how they would manage a silence, we had an email this morning saying there would be a long'ish blast of the fire alarm to signify the start and a shorter blast to signify the end.

It was lovely, the building was silent...except for the lady near to me who clearly hadn't read the email and kept remarking how quiet it was...doesn't take rocket science to work it out even if you haven't read the email but anyway...

We also had a two minute silence at Brands on Sunday, wonderfully orchestrated by Brian Jones who has just the voice for it. 

Same here. I don't know if it is because it is the 90th anniversary and people see it as more important but everyone here stood and bowed their heads for the 2 minutes. The radio was playing in the background and did remind the listeners but this is the first time this has happened here en-masse since the week after 9/11. It made me feel quite proud.

I was very impressed today aswell as i was working in a large leisure centre and when the annouced the start of the 2 minute silence the whole place fell quiet which i didnt expect  :)

Good turn out again at the Cenotaph today, with what seemed to be most of those serving in MOD Main Builidng out in the sunshine in uniform with the populace for the ceremony, with the final 3 surviving WW1 veterans living in the UK rightly taking centre stage.  Henry Allingham, the oldest, was determined to try and stand but was not able to do so, and Harry Patch, the only "Tommy" left who actually served in the trenches of Passchendaele, was accompanied by Jonathan Beharry VC (gained in Iraq) which was a moving sight.

For our part in the light blue, the meeting that I was in today started at 1100 on the dot by observing the two minute silence, before moving through updates on current happenings in fields afar, to the future size, shape and nature of what we might become under a grateful Government's "Public Value Programme" (aka further big efficiency savings = big cuts on the way).  Something of a counterpoint to the day and rather ironic.

The 65th anniversary of D-Day in northern France should be good next year and, if you can't get out there as TOATB suggests, then take the Pompey Caen night crossing and wake up to the view that they saw as they approached the shore.  Failing that, here's the iconic footage of the ramp going down and disembarking http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k3azRAPPlbs&feature=related (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k3azRAPPlbs&feature=related)

MG Mark

 

While picking up my daughters from browies last night at a local village hall, I saw hanging on the wall a gift from the 2 Canadian Battilion who had a HQ nearby.

It was a map that showed the route the troops took up through france (Close to Le mans and Rouen) then the low countries then Germany.

I had never seen it before and was strangely moved by it.

There was also a piece on the local news last night about another local village hall in Balcombe. The walls are covered with a fresco painted by Neville Lytton that depicts the tragic and heroic troops of the frist world war. While it is very close to my home, I never knew it was there.

http://www.balcombevillage.co.uk/VictoryHall.htm