Club Arnage

A question for Gilles or anyone else who might know...

I'm planning another trip to France and want to stop at the Old Grand Prix Circuit in Riems on the way through for the obligatory photo-shoot.

Can anyone confirm it is still there - I've read on various sites that it was due for demolition?

Cheers

Rich - Team Gulp Racing

Reims, you most surely mean Reims. The circuit doesn't exist anymore but there are some buildings still left alongside what was once the start/finish straight. It's a perfect scenery for some picturesque photo shots. Ahh, and the champagne...  :D

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There's some great pics here and a BP Logo Patio up for grabs if anyone's interested?

http://www.racingcircuits.net/archives/Reims1994/Pits.html

I'm sure i remember them saying last year they where looking into holding a revival style meeting there. It would seem a criminal waste if they just knocked them down.
Gilles get on to the town council, tell them to pop over to the Goodwood revival and see what a moneyspinner they could be on to. Better still arrange it yourself and allow free entry for all Club Arnage people!! ;)

There was talk of a revival meeting at Reims a few years ago. Unfortunately it never happened, and now it's too late - they've built over Thillois and messed about with the road between the pits and Gueux, and the grandstands and pits are mere concrete skeletons.
Dream on, but visit before it's too late.

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The revival was a corking idea and the trip was planned but alas nobody had told the local council (well, not quite, but it was the closure of the main road requirement that basically scuppered it all).

Anyway, visited in May 1998 and took the following, just to whet the appetite. As Kpy says, visit before it is too late........

Cheers

Rick

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims01.jpg)

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims02.jpg)

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims03.jpg)

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims04.jpg)

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims05.jpg)

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims06.jpg)

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims07.jpg)

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims08.jpg)

This thread about Reims made me think about the Grenzlandring. That was an old race circuit in Germany at the border to the Netherlands and it was once the fastest oval in Europe. The Grenzlandring was a ring road around a town called Wegberg which was build by the Nazis. After the war it was pure chance that it was used as a racing circuit. In its haydays in the early 1950's it attracted around 250.000 spectators in average although there were only a small number of races. In 1952 there was a huge accident which brought racing on the Grenzlandring to a halt. There was never a race there since. ::)

In the same way, Montlhery will be closed at the end of 2004  :-[. The last event will be the Grand Prix de l'Age d'Or next june.

For people form the other side of the pond, Montléhry is our French Goodwood...

Wow, they have a fantastic web site with lots of information at http://montlhery.com/autodrom_eng.htm in french, english and german. End of June 2004 is fixed in my calendar. Gilles, have you ever been at the Grand Prix de l'Age d'or ? That sounds very interesting, indeed.
(http://www.ville-montlhery.fr/images/actu/2001/agedor/02.jpg)

That picture reminds me of Brooklands................bloody shopping centre now :'(

Here's anohter one you guys might like: http://users.pandora.be/les.consultants.bvba1/sitges/

Wow!!! These are all great. Wonder if Mrs. R would like to do a family tour of Europe this summer?  ;)

Why is it that anything of any historical interest is scheduled to be destroyed in the name of the great God money, unless someone actually bothers to put up a fight to save it?

The Sitges place looks awsome. A bucket of polyfilla would soon have the track back ship-shape again. I have read about this place in old motor racing books, but I had no idea that it was still in existence.

I would suggest that anyone who has any interest in the history of the sport visit these cathedral's quickly, they are vanishing at an alarming rate. Some friends travelling through Normandy were recently horrified to find that the old Rouen-les-Essarts circut is completely gone, and I mean completely! Pits, Grandstands, everything! They even paved over the hairpin cobbles. We all know the plight of the Monza banking. This blight isn't unique to Europe either. The great old Riverside circut in California is now a sprawling residential community and the historic old Ascot Park bullring where the likes of Bill Vukovich, Parnelli Jones and Rick mears cut their teeth is now an office park. Price of progress I guess.
Fax

To continue on this thema: "Goodbye to historic automobile places" the ACO eventually destroyed the 2 houses face to Bleu Sud, remember the 2 houses on Maison Blanche where Steve Mac queen stopped in the opening sequence...  :'(

The ACO is erecting a concrete wall along the road, probably to keep safe the field where the houses were. In my opinion it maybe a little new campsite or parking or smarter an extension to the existing MB camp.  ???

Hi Rickmeister, Try the Mrs on with Fax's line about Cathedrals and add in some Ruins in the French Countryside. Reims is in the Champagne district I believe. Come on you old bullshitter make up a good story and take lots of pictures ::)
Canada Phil

Reims is the heart of the champagne district my friend.  :D

Please go to the thread entitled 'Saving Montlhery' to find the link to sign the petition to save this track. Lots of people have signed already, including Phil Hill. French government does sometimes listen, especially if being accused of cultural vandalism.

J' accuse.

On the top of the general discussion board there is the track day thread. I wonder if it would be a good idea to organise a track day at Montlhery during the LM week next year. Lets say Tuesday or Wednesday. It's only 185 Kilometers from LM to Montlhery via L'autoroute, so not a big distance. And it could be the last chance to drive on that circuit in your life time. Additionally, it would probably help to convince the French government to keep the track alive. What do you think ? No, I'm not drunk. :D

Nice idea if you are coming to LM in a sports car, I don't know if they let family saloons do this sort of thing :)
Although the thought of Andy Z's commer sweeping off the top of the banking and overtaking exotica on the inside has brought a smile to my face this morning :) :)

Hmmmm probably more like sweeping Andy Z Commer off the top of the banking!!

Absolutely impossible, I'm afraid. Access to the circuit is impossible outside the few sanctioned events. They don't do track days. You might as well ask the ACO for a track day on the full circuit at LM in July .....
Montlhery's problems lie with politics and finance within the French motor industry. They are complicated and unlikely to be resolved.

It's almost impossible as the organisers of the Grand Prix de l'Age d'Or already need a special autorisation to use the circuit...

... but this idea of a demonstartion during the LM week may be a good idea. I'm trying to go in touch with the author of the petition and try to see what it's possible to do...

That's good for a start. I believe Francois O'Born will be at Spa-Francorchamps for the 6 Hours in September (at least he was there last year with a Lotus 23). If so, I'll have a word with him.

Cathedrals and ruins might just work with Mrs. R (she likes old relics - she married one!) but the "dustbin lids" might need a bit more persuasion (financial probably).

Long suffering wifey was with me the day I shot the photos on page 1 of this thread, alas sunbathing was the order of the day back at the campsite and it was just me and my future Le Mans winning son aged 8 months at the time that made it to Reims!

In years to come he will treasure this photo below but all he says when he sees it at the moment is "why did you leave me alone by a main road?"!!!!!

Cheers

Rick

(http://www.maisonblanche.co.uk/reims09.jpg)

Feck! You trying to give me nightmares Barry?

All these old tracks disapering.

May I suggest that those that are intrested join one of the many groups that are there trying to save these places.
I am a member of the Brooklands Socitey wich did a lot of work in getting what is left of the Brooklands listed. We are also working closey with Merc about the proposed super showroom and demonstator track there. We are also active in try to save Montlhery from the "le buldozers".
Have a look at the web site www.brooklands.org.uk

Andy,

do you still want to left your Commer here in Le Mans next june to be able to present it to the Classic ?

I'm now one of the proud overseas members of the Brooklands Society...

... BTW I read in the last issue of OCTANE (what a good magazine,isn't it?) something about Brooklands and DaimlerChrysler. Can you tell me a little more?

Click on this, have a read and and sign the petition!
http://www.racingcircuits.net/

I Like the Commer diving down for the inside line  mental picture better. Probably due to total brake failure but Andy going for the gusto seemed fitting  ::)
Canada Phil

Have been thinking about taking the Commer on a trackday. I think Dreamracer still has some places available.

It would be interesting to see what it's like at the limit, lethal probably. Front suspension is classic double wishbones with coil over shocks and anti roll bar, similar to an E type. But  the front subframe was nicked off an old Humber Hawk or something which is why the front wheel track is inboard of the wings by a foot on each side and far too narrow for the body. A typical piece of great British design screwed up by penny pincing accountants.

As you sit forward of the front wheels, when you go around a left hander you think you are going to nose dive and corkscrew into the ground . I think a banked oval would totally confuse it.

Oh Gilles, thanks for remembering about leaving the Commer in France for a couple of months. Theoritically yes, but will have to see nearer the time. Do you have somewhere in mind?

yes I've got somewhere in mind  ;)

BTW what was the firm which built Commer vans'  ??? ? Are you not able to fix it again by equivalence of spare parts?

Some Lotus guys use to go to Renault garages, as some parts in the 70's and 80's were the same (basically the engine was the same, wasn't it Mark ?) and Lotus and renault spare parts price may not be the same...

Commer was the light commercial vehicle part of the Rootes Group, which also manufactured various Hillman, Humber, Sunbeam and Singer cars. In the early 1960's, Rootes was taken over by the mighty Chrysler Corp. My Commer has some Chrysler Star emblems in various places. I think Chrysler owned Simca in France too. Commer was also sold in export markets as a Dodge Spacevan, due to the French connection? So it is related to the Viper, it could be argued!

In 1979, Chrysler pulled out due to increasing losses and the business was sold for about £10 to PSA (Peugeot) and the car division was renemed Talbot. (Gilles you may remember early 80's Talbot Alpine and Horizons, with their rattly Simca engines.) The Commer van continued to be built in small numbers until 1983. It was a crap vehicle in 1969 when mine was built. How it compared to say a Merc van circa 1983 does not bear thinking about. The factory in Coventry now makes Peugeot 206 and 307s.

But spare parts are not a problem, all available from Speedy Spares in Brighton. Very cheap, eg a new piston set (4) is about £15!! Body panels can be difficult to source.#

History lesson over but how about a piece in Automobile Historique??

Gilles

Glad you have joined Brooklands Society, were are an odd bunch. The site is also historic for flying as well as racing, I think the prototype Hurricain was built there.

As for the asscoiation with Merc. This will be a large show room and museum and a demonstration track. Built largly in the center of the old track. Odd realy, as Merc wernt that successful at Brooklands. But I guess a historic motor racing sit not far from some rich parts of London, is a good reason to come.

Shame it could not have been a British car company but we have non left.

MG? TVR? Lotus? Morgan? Proteus?


BTW, it could be so nice having Ford makes the same deal with Montlhéry and having a Jaguar showroom.

The bi-historical plane and car history is a common point with Le Mans, as the Wright brothers took off just where the hippodrome stand now (face to the Chinese restaurant on the Hunaudieres (sorry, MULSANNE) straight)

Yes Chrysler bought Simca in the 60's, and after sold it to Peugeot at the late 70's...
... it explains that the first 205 engines are Simca engines developed in the early 60's by Simca.

Your maintenance appears to be not so hard BTW.

Plus you don't need to leave your Commer a couple of months in 2004, as the Classic appears to be in early June, so maybe 3 weeks after the 24H.

Just returned from France and thought I'd give a bit of an update with the Reims Circuit situation.

I took directions with me but as I came off the autoroute all the roads seemed different to the directions.

They are actually half way through what seems like a huge building project and all the roads in the area are being upgraded or made into dual-carriageways.

Anyway, after hunting around the local area I came across a roundabout with 5 exits - only, the fifth exit was 'Route Barree'.

So what does a Brit do when travelling across France and someone has placed something between him and his destination? Yep - I nipped around the barrier and after half a mile of totally empty 'closed' road came across the old circuit buildings.

All the buildings are now very dilapidated and starting to fall down. The entire area is totally overgrown and you can no longer see the BP mosaic.

It seems the old circuit is earmarked for demolition as the road has been closed off and has just been left to fade away.

Seems a real shame to me, and gives even more incentive to try to preserve whats left of all the other old circuits mentioned in this thread.

Sounds sad but I took some photos from another website of the last Grand Prix held at the circuit and stood in the exact positions they were taken from.

I'd recommend the slight detour to anyone going past Reims this year - the whole place is very atmospheric and is really worth a visit while it still stands. :'(