Club Arnage

Ref T Shirt Comments topic.
 
As a member of this forum I believe I have a right to express myself, as long as it is not degrading, sexual etc.

I do not think you are correct in closing the topic above without a few more opinions, even support, perhaps, for Rick and JPC.

Unfortunately there has been an error, which Del felt, I believe, was very upset about although it was not his fault. Before he had a chance to talk to the printers he was in the stocks and was initially not able to account for what the outcome was to be after discussion with the printer.

I find it very strange that two guys can go off on one as easy as this seems. PFT perhaps? (Pre flight tension)

JPC, this comment is pretty silly, sorry if that is too strong, they are not going to phish CA when they can try it on PayPal clients (I know).
I quote 'At present it is just a holding/search page, but if they are on the ball and start seeing lots of hits because people are going to their site because they have seen the back of our shirts then they could easily put a Phishing, Gambling or Porn site up there which we would not wnat to be associated with.' I do not think 100 T shirts are going to be that noticeable in a 250k crowd.

Ok, so why no complaints from our Dutch friends?

Why so few complaints from the rest of the guys who are going to Sebring and have these shirts? (I have them and am not going to Sebring, perhaps I should claim some air tickets off Del?)

This is not meant to be offensive to either RIck or JPC, but I do think both the reaction and the censorship to be wrong.

Rick, JPC come out and play again, it is supposed to be fun after all... Steve, don't pee on my tent on the way back from the Stella bar.

>Martini...

Because I was trying to avoid this.

http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=8254.msg110545 (http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=8254.msg110545)

I think it was on the cards Steve, all that is left now is to pick up the toys.

Do you think a bad day at work comes into it?

And what are our Dutch and American friends going to think of this?

>Martini...

Martin. It is supposed to be fun, but I don't think slagging people off is Fun!

Further comments on here, and comments by Chris24 over on Sebring Fans forum as well just fuels the problem even more!

Fact, I am not willing to pay out £85 of my hard earned money for something that was wrong and not what I ordered!! If your order was for more than just one or two shirts you might feel differently as well!!

The Dutch guys haven't made up their mind yet. I have their shirts and am waiting to see if they are going to Sebring with me or going back! They might yet cancel. They might keep them. It's up to them.

Rick's order and my order accounted for 11 of the 34 shirts, the DfH order accounts for another 12. Gab and Canada Phil won't have had theirs yet.

So far you, Bob and Smokie have agreed to accept them. I believe that is 6 shirts, so at the moment more have been cancelled than accepted.

And for what it's worth, the t-shirts are made from Inkjet Printed Iron On Transfers with one instruction label saying do not iron and one saying that you must iron it, and the images and etxt on mine are more lopsided than the URL was on the back of Bob U's Discovery at Donnington! However I've already told Del I'll keep that one and as far as I am concerned that's the end of it!

JPC, your comment is fair. I did not know of the reason for the delay in the Dutch guys comments.
As to the standard of the shirt printing I received and opened my pack today but did not look closely. I do now see what you have mentioned and am a little disappointed as I have used 'Iron On' to adorn my shirts for a number of years, only to find that the wife irons them and they stick together. Not sure if this is the same principle.

Regards, stay with us...

>Martini...

I'm not speaking on behalf of the Dutchies here. Hell, I didn't even order one because I have 2 CA polos already and that's enough for me. I would like to give my opinion on the case however. I think everybody who cancels their order because of a misprint or low quality is in his right, no matter how hard the printer worked to get them done, because that's what he's paid for.

On the other hand, it's such a tiny mistake that a discount on the misprinted t-shirts should do. CA is a non-commercial community, so no real damage has been done. It's not that CA relies on advertising and would therefore suffer from less traffic due to a few misprints.

The mistake has been made and some sort of compensation seems in order (half price for the misprints seems fair), but I really don't understand all the fuzz and it really isn't something to get upset about. It's not like you're low on beer or something.

I've had a read through the thread - I have to say I don't understand why people got so uptight over it. I don't see any really offensive remarks - there are one or two where the poster should have recognised the sensitivity of the situation and saved his breath, and one or two which supported one side or the other in a rather unnecessarily extravagant or forceful way.

Steve was, in my opinion, right to lock the thread as clearly people were getting overheated on the issue. I don't regard that as censorship; it was a reasonable attempt to carry out the moderator role of maintaining standards. There was nothing more to be said that hadn't already been said, and it's actually pretty boring watching people slugging it out in a thread - which probably explains why folks drop in with "trolling" remarks, to try to make it more lively.

Lastly, I'll check with Del that he is coming up with a response which hopefully will satisfy all parties, and, most importantly, not cost him anything personally.

This whole debacle made me chuckle for the first time - in a very long time, on Club Arnage. It's a terrible shame that as soon as a topic that creates a good bit of heated debate arises, it's just as swiftly smothered by the Smokie/Brown Nanny State.
The spelling mistake on the shirt is hilarious, but equally (stupidly) inept. CA tee-shirts are a bit naff really - they are, you know - a bit crap, when all's said and done. That's not to say the efforts of the creators is anything less than admirable - it's the concept of a tee-shirt so that we can all be buddies together that's a bit peculiar to me.
While I'm having a go - what's happened to this bloody forum anyway?
It used to be funny, barbed, thought provoking, insulting, uncouth, honest.
Now it's all committees (I said there'd be trouble once we had a f*cking committe, didn't I), locked threads, pussy-footing around delicate sensibilities and flouncing-off in a strop.
There are some great people (and a handful of ar$eholes) who contribute on here - come on, let's get the character and banter back.
Am I alone in my views on this subject?   

I really dont want to butt in as I am not really a core member here and I have no real stake in this matter as i did not order shirt, but i will offer my perspective anyway.  :P

First and foremost, i have witnessed a forum i used to participate in self destruct to to a lack of civility and behavior that can only be described as e-drama. There is really no need for anything like that to happen here.

As in any economic transaction, if the product does not meet the standards set forth in the initial contract, the buyer has no obligation to make the exchange. obviously the details laid out by delboy suggest that it is not so black and white.

Nobody other than the printer should absorb the cost of the shirts that are not purchased.

I do not know a tremendous amount about screen printing and t shirt making other than my experience with 'iron on'. That being said, it seems that the printer might be able to fix the problem without having to reprint the entire shirt by either ironing on a new url or printing over the url with a dark blue background and a grey text or something. these costs should be placed on the printer.

i do not wish to stir the pot but only to offer some constructive advice.


EDIT
something like this

(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x82/goodduckling/clubarnageshirt.jpg)

the shirt looks great by the way

I am normally a lurker, but as I understand it the shirts were rushed for the benefit of those at the 12 Hours of Sebring. I'll be at Sebring and I'll be more than happy to take at least one the Club Arnarge shirts off of your hands. 2XL or better please.

PS. I like this site for the racing news and humor. Please don't f#$% it up with business.


Go team ECO Radical!!

Got to agree about the censorship, Steve editted my last post so it only showed my last sentance.  The bits which he editted supported both Rick and JPC in their rights to cancel and served as an explanation on my comments about Rick throwing his toys from the pram (Because its not the first time he has spat the dummy when things didn't go his way) But thats called life and its how you deal with these things that define you as a person. It was an is nothing personal against anyone and like i said on my post, I don't want this to spoil a great trip to sebring and hopefully Rick and JPC won't let it come between us at Sebring.

As for my comment on Sebringfans.com, Its only fun, on a forum that is still fun, so lighten up and go and look for your sense of humour. Afterall its the first thing that needs to be on the top of your list of things to take to Sebring

Because I have asked the rest who've ordered on our own forum, and not everybody replied yet. So far it's somewhat 50/50.

I am not going to comment about the rest of the subjects. If you want to know my opinion, let's talk at Sebring.

So, to recap...

JPChenet has died. A terrible shame, but who can say they're not surprised, the way he abused his body.
The role of Fundraising Head has been taken over by a blind Canadian jazz guitarist.
Rick Cutler has gone fishing for porn sites.
Matt Harpers favourite biscuits are Brown Nannies, (I've not heard of these, and assume you can only get them in the States), and he dreams of being smothered in them, a la Ann Magret/baked beans. And who can argue with that?
The ACO are still searching for buried body parts on Maison Blanche.

And my anus is still 'orrible.
H

Nice to see I get a mention in the ars£holes category Matt. Though I'm saying this through clenched teeth, I find myself agreeing with your general comments though. And you don't hear me say that too often.

I've been a fully participating CAer since 2001, and a Le Manser since 1988 and feel I'm reasonably well qualified to speak out. For me, traditionally, CA is not about pathetic arguements over teeshirts. It was simply a place that likeminded individuals could have a natter about cars and sh*t and some healthy random banter online. It is also somewhere I've made some fantastic friendships across the world, ones that I hope will last a lifetime.  Essentially, CA was just a forum for 51 weeks of the year and it was closed down for LM week whilst some fairly random meetings went on between the various groups at Le mans, including at the Poo Bar. Then on our return we all told lies about what we'd got up too. Oh, and there was a fantastic CA piss up in London at Xmas, and even that's not happened for a few years. Looking back, it seems to me it was a far more fun place then too. Most of the chat these days is about teeshirts and group trips to various race meetings. Whilst this is necessary, it does make exceptionally boring reading for the rest of us and could probably be better done on other forums.

In the old days (christ did really I say that?) sometimes the online banter could spill over into personal insult and gratuitous nastiness; indeed Matt, Fax, Oldtimer, Monkey and many others including myself have torn ruddy great lumps out of each other on several occasions. It was great!! However, I believe we did it with a degree of mutual respect and friendship. What I've seen over the last few days has left me shaking my head. I'm not taking sides here on the rights and wrongs,  I guess the least said the soonest mended, so FFS lets bury the hatchet and move on guys.

I only wish this situation had never happened in the first place and i believe the increasing formalisation of CA is solely to blame. What is clear is that this formalisation has left it bereft of what made it such a fantastic place it was in the past, and that's something I'm quite sad about. So I propose ALL CA committes are closed down after this years's race, and yes that includes the charity committee. If people want to collect for charity then each group like DfH should do their own thing. I'll gladly stick my hand in my pocket at their friday night do. Then provided there's enough funds to run the CA server, that should be that. Wouldn't the calendar proceeds cover this?

No more teeshirts produced centrally. No more sh-it rows about printing errors. No more wasted time and angst. Let's move forward to the way we were.

Nicely put both of you.

Dx

It's just occurred to me that you probably think that for the simple reason they don't make one big enough to fit you, you fat American twat. How about a Club Arnage Zeppelin cover, would that be of any interest?

It's getting more like PistonHeads on here every day!

And breathe...............

Keeping it brief, and with a voice of vague reason, the latest CA financial position is here: http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=8146.0.  

In essence, there is about £2000 in the bank, which means that CA is where it set out to be - namely, it is financially viable, with enough in hand to fund the server and have the funds in reserve to cover 12 months.  To avoid the "oh sh*t the server is about to close, oh god we can't let that happen" that we had last year.  Calendars alone won't cover that.  

Very little - deliberately - has been "formalised".  All that has happened is that a few CA people (herinafter and thereunto supposedly called "the Committee") gave some of their time to manage raising funds for the server.  That's all.  No nannying.  No tyrannical organisation.  No party-pooping.  No censorship (that's the mods).  No charity stuff (that's Doris's and I, for one, wouldn't tread on her toes).   

Just doing it so that all of us CAers continue to have a site that people can contribute freely to on any subject, at any time, within some vague boundaries, and without logging on only to find that it has shut down.  As a gentle reminder -  The purpose of Club Arnage is to provide a web-based forum, that is renowned for friendship, openness, humour, honest information and the absence of advertising and commercial gain, as a home for any individuals who share many and various dreams and interests that make up the Le Mans 24-hour race, and much else that takes their fancy besides.

So please don't blame what has happened recently on the "Committee" - it has done sod all to create the latest dummy spitting contest or lack of thread subject variety.  

Flak Jacket on....sense of humour firmly in place.....best get back now to laughing about BigH's latest medical problem and the latest work comedy of planning what we can scrape together from the latest pathetic settlement called the Defence Budget, granted us by a grateful government. ;D ;D ;D

MG Mark

i also feel it is bad to censor this subject, people are allowed to have there say good or bad just keep the wording clean and the insults to a minimum.

Both cases are have there point, so let the people who cancel there orders do so, but put them up for sale again and let other people wear them with pride. Del you should not have to foot the bill for these errors, but i understand that the printer has done his most to help you out, so show him the thread on here unless he is made from glass, he will understand peoples comments and see what he can do to modify the shirts so they can be re-sold. To people going to Le-mans and do not need the shirts in a hurry.

I will buy 1 if there are any extra left.

Andy - don't worry I am sure that once the inclement weather in this particular tea-cup has passed we will be able to resume hostilities again!  You are right - it was great and you are right about the mutual respect/friendship thing too.

 ;)

As a bit of a lurker, I have read all the posts with a certain amount of eager glee.

This stuff is somewhat ironically, very funny indeed.

Now what? - About 3 threads continuing the debate over some T Shirts where an extra R is inserted. I can see the guys' points about not paying for something that is not fit for purpose etc. - BUT it's a T Shirt for freaks sake, it does serve it's purpose as a T Shirt and it does what it says on the tin. Well, its says ClubArnarge on the tin!

In fact no-body has died and no-body is really out of pocket by a life changing amount of cash, I would imagine

Grown men arguing about this fact does have a comedy value to it and although I do not agree with censorship, this is really not what the forum is for and you all should see the funny side and move on. Let's hope the other guy's can kiss and make up in Sebring and come back with clear heads and news and views of Sports Car Racing - that' what it's about!

Bring on the 14th June !

PS. All new threads should have extra letters inserted in the tropic tritles!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions - something perhaps I initially did not take into account.  Equally, everyone has a different way of conducting a transaction, whether that be a verbal discourse or a business deal, and the progression of that transaction depends largely on the relationship between those concerned in the transaction.  In this particular case, I was the one conducting a business transaction, and progressed it as I saw fit in the circumstances at the time.

I agree with many of the comments expressed on this forum on this and every other topic, and again equally, I disagree with many comments. I’m sure all other people on the forum do likewise.  We must surely, though, have a common aim - to keep CA a fun place to be, and to ensure that it continues as an entity.  It may be that the way chosen 12 months ago is not the best way to achieve this – but that is subject to a separate discussion.

As a wrap (hopefully) to the T-shirt saga, please see the ‘Orders’ thread where I have posted a solution to the problem.

Del

Ohh boy, I am gone to the US for a few days and this forum has turned apeshit!!!

As far as the shirt goes Del, I will accept the one with the printing mistake, but also would like to have a proper one.

Concerning the comments by members; some of you need to seriously grow up and get a life >:(

Thanks Roy

Will add another to the order book for you.  Same specification?? 

Del

Whats wrong with being a fat American twat?

i thought they had closed down or the main members have now left PH  ???


ive not logged on for a few days and the (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/kev_mk3/smiles/shtf.gif) (sh*t hits the fan!)

what the hell is going on FFS (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/kev_mk3/smiles/doh.gif)


(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/kev_mk3/smiles/ohthedrama.gif)

now stop (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/kev_mk3/smiles/beatdeadhorse-1.gif)

To be honest I'm not too happy about finding out that the printing is inkjet iron-on stuff, because it is usually also iron-off. Contrary to many of the men here, I actually DO iron my shirts before wearing them ;D

Anyway, since mine's a 'special made' shirt I'll take it as it is and not be bothered about the misspelling.

@Knetter: I would love to get a live, but PLEASE do not make me grow up  :angel:

Nothing at all when your name's Randy Pruett.  ;)

Everything when you really come from Yorkshire!

Yes, please!!

 ???

What, with Arnage spelt wrong again  ???

Ok after having a good read through posts ive come to the conclusion that all this petty argument is over the letter “R” in the URL of Club Arnage


Yes the printer has cocked up but seriously the majority of people will see the shirts remember the name and google it so the site will come up regardless. I don’t agree with some comments but I do agree with others but come on because of the letter R????? Pathetic…………………….

It’s a free site with no membership cost so whats a little to support the place we talk about the sport / times we love……


Im off to pick the toys off the floor now that I had thrown from my pram :)  ::)

Mmmm.  pudding. ;D

Wish I was gonna be with you this year Randy. I'm off down under on friday but have a great time everyone.

i just wish us Welshies hadnt stuffed the English in the 6 nations this year.This site has been very niggly ever since.
PM

That's a very good point.

Are there any Frenchies on here.....................?

We will be supporting the Paddy's on Saturday ;D

Don't start Nobby   ;D

Wrong team turned up that is all...

>Martini...

Looking forward to the Welsh-Irish match on Saturday. It will not be easy at Roke Park for us Welsh but fingers crossed. Succeed and it's the Triple Crown.

Powermite, the english team did not play well. End of story.

I wish you were going to be there also.
It will not be the same.
We have lots of fun things in store this year.Sure you cant make it?

Who will I talk to when I need to regain my sanity?

i had already answered in the first topic, but I will reconfirm that I will take the old shirt I think  but will confirm when the whole DFH outcome is clear (since we put it in as 1 order)

What do you mean, regain?  ???

Ahem.... you got me bang to f*cking rights there, Harry, old son. Was nowt but a slip of a lad whan that movie came out and the scene referenced has left a long lasting impression on me. It has remained in the deepest vaults of the w**k-bank ever since. That woman was an utter Goddess. I would happily have crawled across broken glass just to throw pebbles at her turds. My whisful expression whenever the ol' ball and chain dishes out beans on toast is a constant source of mystery to the old gal.

This minor detail may have passed you by Zarse, but I am very thoroughly English. Granted, I'm no seven stone weakling, but that just means there's more of me to love. Come to think of it, I'm really not sure why you feel the need to ridicule my glandular condition - I'm guessing you probably laugh at pretty much anybody who faces difficulty in their day-to-day life.
I am very disappointed that the mods have not stepped-in and put a stop to this blatant disrespectful and bullying posting. Obvious double standards, in my view.

Hang-on Mark, I wasn't blaming the committee for handbags at 10 paces over dodgy tee-shirts - or how unimaginative our collective contributions have become.
It's all the cloak and dagger $hit that's gone on (postings/threads blocked, disappeared etc), we, the hoi polloi being told that 'certain subjects' may not be discussed, all manner of back-room scullduggery over sodding calendars, teeshirts, doing our bit for frigging charridy - that's what gets up my hooter - and no, this forum wasn't like that before all this bollocks.
I'm not taking a shot at individuals - all well intentioned, I'm certain - it's the 'management' concept of something that hithertofore managed itself that I don't appreciate.
That's what made this forum different - it doesn't need over-seeing.   

Well said, from a guy who still plays with matches......

Funny! See - this place can still be proper funny!

I think I've covered this one already, so why don't you just do one, slaphead.

Must be too young here, can someone explain

And Matt
 
Well said

You definitely get you T bags now!

well properly, maybe, if I have space, if their not confiscated, if I remember.  ;D

Matt & Big H are referring to a scene from the film Tommy by The Who.  http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k8T1ZR98aEA (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k8T1ZR98aEA)

Ade

 ;D

I have just emerged from winter hibernation - What is going on? Lots of chat about T shirts (bit of a pain in the R's I guess, but come on guys and gals - I had to read the artwork five or six times before I even noticed the problem.) and people arguing, getting upset leaving the website. All quite worrying really. And even more disturbing Mr Zarse referring to some of our 'discussions' with a notably  sentimental, possibly even nostalgic tear in the corner of his eye!  ;D Actually you are right Mr Zarse we have crossed swords a number of times and I am sure I have learnt something valuable on every occasion.

Time to start planning the trip for team Monkey I think. Now where did I leave my credit cards! Bye for now.

Oh and try to play nicely everyone. ;D

Might I be able to sample some of this Tea at Sebring?
I must be something special.

I am a Fat American Twat.

I love Yorkshire pudding,and tea.

Mmmmm.


Hi-Jack   !

bag of testicles if you ask me, no that you are.......

Just back from a luchtime pint................and also just PM'ed a mr Cutler to which i got bounced and i thought, hey ho LM is still on, FS and Del Boy tickets sorted thanks, my legs work, my kidneys still function to a degree my 2 kids are healthy whats to moan aboat........

a corner in bleu is still englis and wil have a humber parked on it come june  life is good + wokingham pints to work it out, got to be there

Hi fatty, Didn't think you could mention those word in the US without getting surrounded...

Missing you already, hi to Matt H as well.

>Martini....

It's like when you see a documentary about WWII, and you get two old combatants, one from each side of the war, strolling down the Normandy beach towards each other and tearfully embracing, evoking emotions of lost youth, the sheer senselessness of war and the memory of those who never made it from the fray. Well that's how I see it in my mind's eye Monkey. Will mankind never learn? Will Club Arnage?

Still, I always like to imagine Fred and Fritz go for a pint afterwards too and I think it might be the answer here too.

Sanity? Erm I guess I could send the Gimp over? He's got his head screwed on right. Oh well, sorry I won't be seeing you but have fun and say hi to John and all at Turn 10. I'll even miss seeing Matt Harper, but please don't tell him.

Like someone would miss having sore dick.

Send us the GIMP ! :o

Nice one Andy. I agree.

Now back to business - strictly speaking that should be Tommy and Fritz I think you will find!!   ;D

Hmmm - isnt it Tommy and Gerry?

 :-X

You stay out of this Fran, he's not worth it....

Oi Monkey! You looking at my pint???  ;D ;D ;D

 ;D

Missing you as well.
Saddens me to hear you wont be joining us this year.
I will see if I can throw in some extra HOOP-LA this year in your honor.

Andy who is that driving in your avatar?

f**k*ng wicked!

Gianluigi "Gigi " Galli.

Gigi Galli - Italy's answer to Colin McRae style wise. He can do the Scandinavian flick as well as as Colin could anyway. Good video's on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W23U4TqAlQ&feature=related