Club Arnage

I see from another thread that you can now buy tickets from 'team Lagoustine', they are currently able to offer over 100 Houx annexe tickets and many for other sites and grandstands.

One of their proud boasts on the web page is that they have been set up by 'fans for fans'.

Bollocks. most, if not all, fans know well enough where to get tickets from without the help of yet another agent taking a slice and hoovering up tickets and reducing supply.

A pox on them.

(I wonder if you get a poxy shrimp sticker as well)

Although I agree in principal, Nordic, I did sit next to a couple of guys last year who had used them.  They did seem to have got one of the less "rip off" deals around, in fairness to the Langoustines.

I don't disagree that the prices on the web page are better than some, but to say they are doing it because they are fans and want to help fans is wrong.

If they had not bualk brought the tickets in the first place, then we could get them direct from the ACO.

I agree totally with Nordic.

If the ACO could actually run themselves properly there should be no need for ticket agents. That way the genuine fans could buy the allocation they actually wanted and pay the proper price for them.

It brings me back to thinking about approaching the ACO ourselves. We would buy 4-500 tickets. Why can't we gain agent status and therefore all get our tickets at face value instead of relying on other rip-off merchants or bumped allocations.

Ergo the best way to combat the ticket agents is to become one!

Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree about the agents, but this particular bunch do seem to be one of the "least worst", if you see what I mean.

it is crap but i just bought 2 x HA tickets off them :(

This might sound funny, but I think it's wrong to slag off travel agencies. Travel agencies see a way of making money, and I would do the same if that would be my core business. It's the ACO who's at fault as far as I'm concerned, as the ACO give the travel agencies the oppurtunity to buy such amounts of tickets. The ACO probably think it's a lot easier to send 150 tickets to one address, compared to sending those same tickets to 50 individual addresses :-\

Sadly the truth!

But I'm not suggesting we setup a website to fleece other race goers, rather just try to ensure Club Arnage members get what they want. The ACO, being an incompetent lot, seem to prefer dealing with as few people as possible.

I'm sure they've screwed up your multiple submission because they were outraged at having to deal with so many bits of paper at once  ;D

This is not just an ACO problem, but is true for almost any event these days - sporting or otherwise and in many countries.  Agencies are the lazy option, and must save organisers a mint. Sadly, the poor punter ends up paying twice - the basic ticket prices are no smaller and the agencies add rip-off fees on top.  Humph.

Needs must, I do normally use another agent myself so I am part of the problem I guess, but just think how much easier life would be if you you could pop onto the ACO site and buy what you need direct from them online.

I think that about everything over here, Nordic. For reasons which passeth understanding, they seem alergic to internet sales for so many things.  Buying on line is still in its infancy in comparison with so many other countries. 
If I log into my bank account over here on line, I even have to pay a fee for each visit!   

I have mixed views on all of this.   I don't entirely dislike the concept of ticket agencies but I do hate what I regard as the blatant profiteering of Just Tickets and similar who add a considerable mark up to each camping pass and then insist on you buying two GA tickets (each with mark up) per camping pass as well.     

Team Lang do have a good reputation and seem to be popular amongst "fans" and, let's face it - they've got Houx Annexe tickets and it's likely that individuals aren't going to get much of a look in so what else are fans likely to do?   

I guess the difficulty for the ACO and the like is that it IS easier to sell 200 tickets to Just Tickets and let them administer them rather than have to administer them themselves. 

What I don't understand is that (having spoken to Guy/White Rabbit Racing) if you want to book a designated chunk of space at LM the ACO want to charge considerably MORE than the face value of that space for the privilege of a designated area.  I just don't get the logic of that, they are offloading a chunk of space, without having to administer it themselves so why charge more? 

I think, no matter how much I think that the (various parts of the) ACO run the most fantastic event around, their ability to administer it is pants and illogical. 

I think to be an official ticket agency you need to be registered as such - I guess with one of the travel associations (like ABTA but different?) which requires a pretty large bond to guarantee your solvency.    Guy is hoping to get this status next year so can probably shed more light on it. 

 :(
 

I think that the ACO's stance on things purely comes down to money. Although sad, it is not that surprising. The established agents buy 10s of thousands of camping tickets and this makes things very easy for the ACO in terms of paperwork and postage. It is the most cost effective way of doing things. They definitely have a policy for keeping some tickets aside for general sale but this can easily go out the window. For example, this year they are loosing a lot of space in Maison Blanche but the customer they are least likely to bump is the oldest and biggest agent of them all, since they are investing the most money. This means the smaller orders get pushed out. Its sad but almost inevitable. If the good people of Club Arnage wish to become an agency it will be nigh on impossible to get onto Maison Blanche in significant numbers anyway since the big agencies have locked it out. The ACO aren't really bothered what happens to the tickets once they sell them because it never comes back to bite them. They are probably unaware of the small amount of disgruntled fans out there and if they were aware I doubt they would do anything about it because they make up such a tiny percentage of the income from the race.
Regarding agency status, this is simply an agreement with the ACO whereby the agency concerned is given preferential treatment when the tickets are allocated. Nothing to do with ABTA but it is another reason why the agents have got a lot of Maison Blanche tickets and some of you guys have been bumped.

Well it seems that with some products the French are leading the internet sales  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRL1SeTJ1rk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRL1SeTJ1rk)

Just spoke to nice lady at ACO.
My form was delivered by termietermite on June 3rd 2007.
The ACO hasn't processed it yet, but she found the form.
She couldn't tell if I will get my 4 HA tickets!
Just ordered 2 HA from Team Lang as a banker!
Used them B4 and glad they exist.
I too would like to get on my high horse, however I'd sooner get to LM2008!!

Jesus I've just googled and your right, ticket agencies are still not governed by any statutory reglation despite recommendations by the OFT in 2004 that they should be! 

Presumably that means if you buy from a ticket agent there is absolutely no guarantee that your money is being kept "on trust" so you don't lose it to their creditors if they go belly up.

To add to Piglet's comment.

If it was that simple then we'd all be doing it. There seems to be a lot of grumbling on Le Mans sites about 'rip off agencies' so let me add a few points to consider.

To start off with, it costs in the region of €10000 to become an official ticket agent (for just one season!) so you've got to sell a shitload to make it worthwhile. You only get a 5% commission on sales too so do the maths. ???

In terms of renting a private space. It is of course possible but there is a minimum space you have (about 100 cars worth) and the price per sqm is about 4 times more than it would be if you simply bought 100 camping tickets. A hell of a lot more. Trust me! So, if TL's prices seem inflated then you know why.

From a personal point of view, for 2007 I am taking 15000sqm of space. I am putting up fencing, employing security marshalls, paying for a private toilet/shower block and adding a members bar and catering. So I am providing a lot more than a standard camping place and crucially, I am limiting the number of cars coming into that space so everyone gets loads more room than they would normally. And of course, that pitch is guaranteed no matter what day they show up and I can also put aside larger spaces for groups.

I have to run this event as a 'business' however, all I make out of it is enough to cover my costs. My end sale price is as low as it can possibly be without going into loss. Because I am a fan doing it for the fans but trying to offer a little more into the mix. It takes a lot of hours to arrange and administer so in the end, it's not actually particularly profitable. The likes of Airtrack make profit when I can see how much it costs to run a similar operation to theirs and they are charging nearly 200% more than I will!

Notwithstanding, the use of my own chat forum in the run up to the event and the fact that everyone will be together in one spot means that I am lucky enough to develop an awesome team spirit and everyone feels like they know each other by the time they arrive. Everyone sharing plans, getting together for convoys and posting up pics of their cars before the off all stickered up. It's also perfect for newbies and those flying solo as they can easily meet people in the group who can show them the way and new friendships developed. We even have a boy/girl couple that met on my Le Mans tour in 2006 and are still together :angel:

So there's an example of by the fans for the fans. My absolute resolve is to provide value for money and at all times, to keep the cost of my camping operation as minimal as I can possibly make them. There are other events that I will do in due course where they might be more profitable but Le Mans is done for the love of it.

I hope this explains why tickets from independent operators have premiums.

Awww, Mr E36GUY, I've nearly got through a box of Kleenex, now I'm going to have to start on the curtains; and my colleague across the room retired to the gents a few moments ago. I've just heard a bang, and there's a whiff of cordite in the air.
10000 Euros for a license, organising 15000sqm and a hundred odd cars just for the love of it?? Yeah right, and there's a team of campanologists up my right trouser leg.
H

I'm not sure that sarcasm is quite called for do you?

It's merely trying to explain why there is a premium attached to the cost from an 'agent'

I'm not an agent so the €10k part doesn't apply.

Yes, I do it for the love. Nothing more and nothing less. I love Le Mans, I love taking people to Le Mans and really get a massive kick from putting it all together and seeing everyone arrive and have a good time. I cover my costs and that is it. Would you like me to show you the post event accounts? ::)

I'm sorry you can't appreciate that some people actually do do things for the love of it. I give you Club Arnage as a classic example. How much time and money do the organisers of this site spend on the website, paying for the bandwidth and the hosting as well as the countless hours preparing and updating their Le Mans guide which is without doubt the undesputed bible of the event? Do they make money from it? No. It's for the love. 

Have to admit I can understand where Guy comes from. We offer our members a full week of Le Mans with a complete package; campsite, entrance ticket, car parking, food, drinks and entertainment ex transport to- and from Le Mans. All for €400 a full week, which is about the same as Guy is asking. Only difference is we ask our members some help in setting up and breaking down.
We work with our budget, and it took me two years to figure out how to set (and work with) a budget for a week. The last two years we didn't have a penny left after the week, which is -to me- the way it should be for a group like DfH. Le Mans is cheap compared to F1, but it ain't that cheap :-\

Not questioning your good intentions but just trying to do the math and see if your offer could be an alternative for our group if all else fails.

So you rent 15.000 sqm at 4 times the price of an ordinary BSJ ticket.
That would be 15.000/35= 428 *47 = 20.116 * 4 = Some 80.000 euro just for the pitch.

That is when you allow 300 cars some 268 euro per car on costs for the pitch alone.
Now throw in something extra for security, fencing and the bogs/showers etc then a ticket with you would cost say 350-375 euro??

Now we usually have 5-6 cars/pitches and now would have to pay some 2000 euro extra?

For bogs and showers that are usually at various campsites and that you can find good alternatives for such as the ACO-member facilities, the swimming pool etc

For a bar, not complementary I guess, so nothing we cannot organise ourselves.

For a 50 sqm pitch, but actually that pitch cannot be 50 sqm because also you would need to have access/firelanes between pitches. So 40 sqm per car would be more like it?

For security, well now that is a big plus indeed as we were visited by thiefs at MB last year also.

For the possibilty to arrive late, well sorry arriving with the exploratory team on Monday kinda adds to the fun.

All in all I must say that the above plus the fact that it's on BSJ makes it NOT worth the extra 2000 Euro to our group.

Now I do know that Airtrack and others ask much more and I do believe that you are doing this at least partly for the love of it but alas it's not an alternative for us.
Good luck and I'll come and have a look at Camp White Rabbit in June

Sarcasm? Surely not!
Here's me thinking you just happened to turn up when the fans here were looking for tickets, to tell us all about your company that, co-incidentally has lots and lots of the damn things, for a price of course. I can't speak for everyone, but my opinion is that you are using CA for free advertising, after all, there's your company web address at the end of your very first post.

To compare yourself to the people who give their time to keep CA going is sooo wide of the mark. The point is, no one at CA handles bundles of money, except for that which goes to our nominated charities.

Holy sh1t, now there's a surprise!

Do me a favour! Apart from Andy Zarse, we haven't all just fallen off the Christmas tree.
H

In fairness BigH - he is a friend of Piglet who she had been speaking to and she asked to come over here and explain his set up when CA had been talking about the possibility of setting up something similar for future years!  He isnt simply some chancer that has wandered in plugging his service. 

Now play nicely!

F
(The Wise One has spoken)

H, I was in Shanghai for Christmas this year and I can assure you there were no trees to fall off, although there were plenty of wagons and there may have been a little bush. The whole Chinese Christmas experience was utterly ghastly as you can imagine.

With regard to agents and "block bookers", sure, I'm as cynical as the next man. On this occasion, and slightly against my better judgement, I'm prepared to give our new member 36-Double E Man the benefit of the doubt. There are folk who go to Le Mans who just can't be arsed to do the graft like most of us on CA and so they're prepared to pay for the privilege. I'd rather their money went to "enthusiasts" like Langoustine and White Rabbit rather than the professional leeches such as MRI, Airtrack or Gobble and Swallow or whatever they're called.

Bloody hell a Christmas hat and tinsel on Mr Zarse, that must be why you look as if you are having a ball ;)

Thanks for the support guys.

Not looking at chancing it with CA in terms of a sales opportunity. I have been doing this long enough not to march in unknown to an established forum without checking with 'Der Management' hence why I have the support of the likes of Pistonheads.

@ Bas. You're not far off in your calculations mate. Good effort!

Just think Nordic, they got their spaces without any hassle!

Just read the forum and see the problems us 'regulars' are having  and quite a few of us are ACO members.

When I started going to LM, I requested MB from 'Just Tickets'. Bit over priced but had to book ferry with them as well. After 4 years with them they bounced me to BN.

There I met my current crew and we have since stayed together but booking direct with ACO.

Every frigging year we have problems bur still seem to get Expo most times.

Yes ticket agents baulk buy and they starve us small folk of a lot of our enjoyment because of a lack of certainty.

Not wanting to be pessimistic, but reading the T&Cs on Langoustine's site:

j/ Ticket availability is subject to Team Langoustine's requested allocation being supplied by the relevant circuits.  Should the required full allocation not be made available to us, tickets will be allocated on a first come, first served basis.  We therefore reserve the right to return deposits if we are unable to provide the required places or alternative seating.

Presumably, they're just as vulnerable as any of us 'solo' bookers. If they don't get their requested allocation, instead of getting some camping tickets through the post you receive an envelope with a refund, stuck to which is a post-it saying "sorry".

Hmmm....