Club Arnage

Utter and crass stupidity.....

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1285441,00.html (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1285441,00.html)

From memory, I can't recall that many sections of the A420 on which that sort of speed is achievable, even in a 911 Turbo.   His words to the police on being stopped sit pretty well up the rankings of understatement, both being caught doing that speed and being in a firm's car that he wasn't supposed to be driving in the first place.   

It seems that the company concerned http://www.helphire.co.uk/index.htm (http://www.helphire.co.uk/index.htm) is in the business, through one of its subsidiaries, of supplying prestige cars to owners whose cars have been accident damaged.  Guess they need to vet their employees a little more carefully in the future....
 
MG Mark

From Helphire web site - I wonder if the car he was driving?

Like the bit in bold.



Think this could be (http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1590217.jpg) next means of transport  (http://platinumgalleria.com/radio-flyer-classic-red-tricycle-12.jpg)

The car in the photo is not a Turbo - it's a standard looking C2.

A 997 Turbo would be a great deal more money than £49k

The fella is obviously a fool. Agree with Catchpole, far too lenient.

I agree.

On his release (At least 18 months from now) his licence should also be endorsed to ensure he only drives an FSO polonez.

Didn't Top Gear show those Gatsos didn't work at over 170 mph? This one did ;D

And yes, I agree. Driving fast can be fun, but 275 kms p/h is insane on public roads :-\

Agreed, far too much spare time!

Anorak firmly in place.

Turbo is easy to spot though - great big holes in the body work , behind the doors, for the air to get across the coolers.

It was not a gatso that cought him, it is was a police car speed gun in a layby.

Far too small a sentence, 6 months in prison and a 5 year ban, Forced to take license after and restricted to cars with under 100Hp in future. That would send the message home.

Agree with Peter,  but on release give him a C5. No not the Citroen but the Sinclair.

Dont want to seem like I think its ok to do those sorts of speed on A roads but I personaly think that the faster driver is far more alert to what he is doing, and I do think that the speed limits on some roads is far too low, I spend up to 10 hours a day on U.k roads I see all kinds of drivers have to say that the person most likely to cause problems and accidents is the slow and over cautious driver. I do find it very hard to get my work done in light of some of these speed limits camera sites and the usual old fart etc etc drivers who see 30mph limits and slow down to 25mph very frustrating if you have to be somwhere! Might I also point out that German motorways are unrestricted (correct me if I am wrong its been a while since I have been there) the greater speeds dont cause death and destruction in any greater numbers than in the uk. If government and all the other do-gooders get their way we had just as well go back to a poney and trap, that will also probably incur legislation ,methane polution, waste by product tax per bucket blah blah blah, My point is that it wont be worth owning a car anymore for fear of being called a lunatic or being jailed for daring to drive our cars over 30mph...................rant over!  >:(

ok. try this on for size.

a car travelling at nearly 3 miles a minute on an a road. hits a piece of debris and suffers a tyre failure. your wife and kids in a car travelling in the opposite direction get killed / seriously injured.

Autobahns are all to be restricted to 155 or possible less in the near future.

There are plenty of airfield / trackdays available, where the speeds are not restricted in any way.

There's a time and a place for everything. His time is too short, but the place is correct.

Now we all speed, over the limit a little bit, but not by this much.

Agree if you want to go that fast stick to a track or airfield. Not a flipping “A” road.

Know a guy who was told once by a policeman  (before speed cameras)

That if you are going to speed, the best place to speed is on the motorway, because there are no pedestrians and everyone is going in the same direction (well 3 lanes at least). But it’s still very dangerous anyway.

There's a time and a place to do 172mph, although there are very few of them and an A road nr Abingdon is not on the list

Supposed story of Winston Chuchill at a cocktail party where he'd had a few brandies:-

Chuchill - Excuse me madam but would you sleep with me?

Woman (outraged) - No! Certainly not Winston!!

Churchill - Hmmm, would you sleep with me for a million pounds?

Woman - Hmmm, yes I guess I would...

Winston - Ok, would you sleep with me for a tenner?

Woman - No of course not! What sort of woman do you take me for?

Churchill - Madam, we have already discovered what sort of woman you are, we're simply negotiating the price....

All I'm saying is that we all speed, it's simply a question of degrees. Ok, hands up those who have never done 120mph on the road as either a driver or passenger? Quite a few of us I expect. Clearly 170mph is ridiculous and dangerous and deserves a stretch inside. But do we all have such clean hands? A blow out at 110mph wouldn't be a stroll in the park and it's just as liable to kill an innocent third party on his way to the newsagent for a Daily Mirror and twenty Bensons.......

I agree Mr Zarse on all the above. I wish my Ex Boss and his brother could read all this as they both hit 180 mph plus on the puddletown bypass, one in a porker Turbo and the other in a Lamborghini Murch.
Its not big and not clever.... I did 125 mph on the empty M3 on Xmas day years back.... then slowed to 70 and realised just how much ground I HAD been covering. Had anything happened.... who knows. Wont be doing that again.
OH.. AND I HOPE THE DRIVER OF THE WHITE LAMBO GAYARDO WHO WAS DOING WELL OVER A TON IN THE WET ON THE M27 ON MONDAY MORNING CHOOSES HIS CRASH ZONE WELL.... IF IT HAD BEEN WHEN I SAW HIM IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CARNAGE. PRICK!!!

A few points here that raise a few concerns for me.

"faster driver, more alert"
This may very well be true. However, the laws of physics remain the same. The faster you are going, the more distance you need to stop. Not all other road users will be "tuned in" to someone who is smashing the speed limit. 10, 20 maybe even 30 MPH over on a motorway is not too much of a problem. Statistically, the safest road type.

"slower drivers likely to cause more accidents"
Well, actually, whilst very irritating, they are not particularly high risk. Exessive speed is the root cause of around 70% of collisions apparently.
My experience is that if I encounter a "slow" driver, I can normally negotiate my way past him without incident.
The "fast" driver that approaches far more quickly than I was anticipating, is the one that seems to represent more problems.

"Autobahn speeds"
I can support this with data or evidence, but I have seen a number of autobahn stacks, and they weren't pretty. If there is a m'way smash, the higher the speed, the worse it'll be. The only caveat to this that I can think of is poor weather. A lower overall speed in poor vis conditions may result in a higher impact speed. When weather is good, you get a chance to break before impact earlier than in poor vis conditions. viz M4 smash in fog about 10 years ago; average speed 60 MPH, but massive stack, as nobody could see it. 10 dead I think.
Risk of fatality in the UK per 100,000 head of population is 6.7
Germany is 10.
Figures taken from a recent TRL study.


I hope we are not restricted to the pony and trap, as I love driving my car.

But stupid speeds on public roads are just that. Stupid.

Sorry folks, this wan't particularly well written as I've had a sherry or 2.

Just modified this.

Interesting point......

Germany :- 61% road deaths are car drivers, UK :- 50%

Pedestrians, Germany :-13%, UK :- 27%.

So, if you are driving, do it in the UK, if you fancy a walk, go to Germany!

Ayrton Senna was caught doing 120mph+ on the M25 at Chertsey in his red Porker.

The cop walked to Senna's car and said to Senna...   'Who do you think you are... Nigel Mansell?'

Also just outside Chertsey about 2 / 3 months ago....

Bugatti Veyron on wet road spun and smashed itself!
Damage - more than my house is worth.
Driver OK but had never driven over 70 before.

Lesson - Learn on a track.


There is a time and place for doing speeds like this.  Any public road whether A road or motorway ain't one of them.

But as has been put by another poster, who hasn't broken the limit.  My 155 in my Cossie on the M62 scared the sh*t out of me in 1991.

Before we hang the poor bloke (and look at the state of him at 33 for gawds sake) do we know all the facts? I've never been on the A420 so can't comment, but what time of day was it? Dry or wet? Good vis? Amount of other traffic? His driving standard/ ability level?etc.
 Speed does not kill- crap driving, poor anticipation, lack of attention, inexperience etc are the killers. 
 It worries me that so called yummy mummys are tooling past schools at 35 in 2 tonnes of RR more than what this chap got up to.

(http://forum.drinkingforholland.com/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif)

Why does 35MPH worry you if speed isn't the problem?

I can only think that the chap wasn't particularly experienced at driving at 170MPH. Obviously, his anticipation skills were inadequate, or he would have had time to slow before contacting the hazzard(speed gun).
I do happen to know the road in question. Whilst it's not one I use regularly, I struggle to see how, even with superb observation, anticipation and concerntration skills, 170MPH can be considered acceptable and suitable for the actual and/or likely hazzards that may develop.

Coupled with the fact that the fella probably has limited experience of the vehicle (he was also charged with aggravated vehicle taking), I would put my money on him not being up to the task, if all went wrong at 170MPH

Absolutely. If experienced racing drivers have difficulties with bends at that speed on a circuit, anyone else is bound to have difficulties on a public road. No matter how wide the road is, it's not suitable for speeds in access of 120 mph. Hence his way of bringing the car to a stop.

Well said bud, I did not say I thought it was ok to do silly speeds on A roads but what I was trying to get across was the crap driving standards (In my opinion) of many drivers on the roads today, they seem to have total disregard for other road users and a f--k you attitude to everybody else on the road! ie I will pull out in front of you and then stop and wait to turn right even tho there is nobody behind you, and I will do 30mph on A roads totally oblivious to the mile of trafic behind etc etc etc, try going up and down the A31 on a regular basis and then say the slow drivers dont cause problems!   brings to mind the saying " I've never had an accident but I've seen loads in my mirror"      Statistics stink...traffic surveys everywhere Q, what do they do with all that info? A, bugger all ! yes we know that there has been a huge increase in car ownership so what has the gov done to improve the roads ......nothing! where does all that road tax and fuel duty go? not on our roads! anybody that has been to France will tell you that the roads there a brilliant........

Absolutely true, driving standars are pretty poor at times.

However, the granny doing 30 in a 60 shouldn't present too much of a problem to the driver approaching at 60, if he/she is applying the suitable observation/aniticipation/concerntration techniques.
I think I had the misfortune to encounter more than my fair share of these drivers today! Infurriating to say the least.

With regard to driving standards, my feeling is that due to the fact that testing hasn't changed a whole lot for decades, it's probably totally unsuitable for the roads today. How have vehicles, vehicle performance, vehicle numbers and attitudes changed inthe last 40 years? Massively. Driving testing has barely altered, apart from the theory test addition.

Also, as far as I am aware, there is nowhere in the Highway Code or the Road Traffic Act, that says, as a driver, you need to be able to sustain your ability to hear, see properly or be able to read. Perhaps even have them in the first place!
Deafness, tunnel vision, single eye blindness and iliteracy are no bar to gaining, or maintaining a driving license.

An interesting read is here:-

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=16878

Although I don't know the road in question, I do know about highways desgn and engineering.

I also know about driving through experience of FF, mINI 7 & Miglia, Sprinting & Hill Climbing at speeds unacheivable on an open public road. I Surrey about 20 yrs ago, I also attended a Police 'Driver Safety Course' over 12 weeks of evenings. That was an eye opener.

Experience and traning is paramount, anticipation, and more importantly ' Reading the Road'. Those from 'the boys in blue' that rad this site will concur with this.

Going to Highway Design. This is a black art and should only be addressed after several nectars from north of the border. So what I am about to tell, is a big secret, it wasn't me honest guv. We have a thing called the DRMB (Design Manual for Roads and Bridges). If you include Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland. We have in excess of 2000 pages. I would put the link here but the suicide rate may go up!

When I used to race, I spent hours walking the tarmac and looking at 'lines'. The 'Blues & Twos' have to rely on some local knowledge but above all anticipation (planning) and they do 'read the road'.

The speed merchants we keep hearing about that seem to be very accident prone have not gained the 'knowledge' of high speed driving.

As mentioned in an earlier post, 155 scared the sh*t out of me on an empty motorway, on a track no probs.

There is a time and a place for speed.  It aint the public highway.

Treat everyone else on the road as a F*****g suicidal maniac and you should rarely have a problem. (Police Handbook!!!)

Treat everyone else on the road as a F*****g suicidal maniac and you should rarely have a problem. (Police Handbook!!!)

Yep - "Roadcraft"

A good read if you enjoy your driving.

 ??? What could demonstrate more of a f--k you attitude than driving at those sorts of speeds on the public highway? 

Whatever the circumstances it just is not acceptable   :police:

I am pretty sure that I know the stretch of road in question, having travelled it a fair few times between home and Shrivenham - there's only one stretch that fits the bill, which is about 3 miles of dual carriageway with a roundabout a third of the way along = max of 2 miles of dual carriageway.  Otherwise, it's single carriageway, nice and winding country road.  Dry, wet, good or bad vis, it doesn't matter - it is simply not the place to be doing it. 

Granny's doing 30mph is a hazard that we're all aware of and make allowances for, no matter how much they, or combine harvesters doing 20mph, get in the way.  It happens and they have as much right to be on the road as anyone else.  At least they are probably taxed and insured.....

MG Mark   

Astonishing that anyone thainks this is acceptable

Sorry if my comments have offended anyone- i was not, as I said aware of the full facts on this one. I'm just not keen on lynch mob justice. I still stand by my belief that speed does not kill. Bad driving is the killer- if that stretch of road/time/conditions were not appropriate then its bad driving practice.     
 Lets remember also that Police driving standards can be pretty poor- i have navigated for a bobby on stage events in the past and remember spending alot of time in upside down cars!

I think its a matter of practice.  If I drove at 180 mph frequently I'd probably get quite good at it, but I'm used to the Bath Road at 40mph, so couldn't cope with 250 feet per second, however talented I may be.

And the locals don't expect anyone to do that speed when they pull out onto the main road.

Yes I've read "Roadcraft" and I still have accidents

well I stand by what I said and this was once again confirmed (the f--k you attitude) whilst camping last w/e a shed-puller tried ripping off the front bumper of my motorhome with the back of their caravan(I was parked on my pitch and had not moved) the owners got out, inspected the damage to their shed and then buggered off......thanks! £500 of damage done to my vehicle so Mr W of Ross on Wye you think that nobody saw you do it but keep an eye on your letter box...arsehole!!!!!!! >:(
As for the standard of police drivers well, they should be setting a good example but that is seldom the case, they also speed, dont know what indicators are for wander from lane to lane ya-de-ya-de-ya.I saw one the other day with a mobile phone stuck in his ear so....I could go on.

Hey how about a new thread? shop a cop? or how about dumb driver of the day?
I dont profess to be the worlds best driver but I struggle to cope with todays dare I call them drivers better still other road users, I do around 250km in my 26ton tanker(and work in between)a day and am usually chewing the steering wheel by lunchtime.
I used to enjoy driving but these days its rarely a pleasure, I did however enjoy my recent trip to the Dordogne and down to the Pyreneese 1700 miles at peek holiday time and never got held up once........well done France

I was tootling along last week in the barge on the A19 when a focus cop car went past at around 80- no blue lights on. I got about 800 yds behind and started to track them. The road was wet and traffic was fairly heavy. Within a mile we were doing 95+. An emergency perhaps? Nope. Our girls in blue pulled into McDonalds!
 I got 3 points in North Wales last year for doing 64 on a empty A road at 7:30am. Double standards or what?

Hey sconey you should have made a citizens arrest ha ha ha ! no seriously I do believe a lot of them think they are above the law like that tw-t who "was just trying out his car" he got let off lightly as I recall instead of being made an example of! and the youth who robs the local shop of a few quid gets 3 years and the company finance director who rips off his co for 5mil will probabley  get a suspended sentence= double standards!!!!!!!!!!! You just have to shake yer head bud :police:

Although there are laws that govern us mere mortals, that includes the 'enforcing' agency. We are now planely seeing the emergency of two groups - them and us.

I see regularly cars parked on footways with a ticket and within 100ft a Police car on the footway and no ticket!. It is an offence.

'Yellow Lines'.  yes, they have been de-criminalised, they are a total waste of time in our village. It's now a council job, the 'boys in blue' won't touch them and they even obuse them.

My Great Aunt god rest her sole, in the late '50's was flagged down by a 'Bobby' and told to 'follow that car'. He got in and they did follow it.

After about 5 miles he shouted  'Stop here'. (the 'car' was now getting away rapidly). My aunt obeyed.

He got out and went into a house...........he also had the front door key. It was about lunch time BTW.

From now on, my cameras are fully charged up, I might start a regular blog for these characters and post to their HQ's.

perhaps he should have used these as an excuse.  ;D

(http://www.octanecreative.com/Parodyville/as_seen/images/speeding_tix_ploy.jpg)

Isn't McDonalds full of criminals ;D

Probably would have done the ton but had to finish the donut and phone call.  And I have it on good authority that they only use Blues and Twos for Starbucks and the chippie.

I have often thought about putting a video camera in my truck and capturing some of those drongo's wafting around our roads and sending some footage to tv companys but no doubt they would not show it for fear of damaging the authority involved (or shaming them) I expect I would be breaking the law for taking one of my hands off the wheel!!!! hey thats another issue.....what about the next bit of upcomming legislation, no smoking while driving...........thats bound to be a good earner for government coffers along with "safety cameras" hah ! what will they come up with next, no farting at the wheel or eyeballing a nice pair of legs while you are stuck in another traffic jam! .......police state  >:(

Had a detective in at work yesterday- works on undercover survelance ops. He says that they regularly train drivers to drive at speeds in excess of 130 on public roads all the time. Its one thing doing those speeds to save a live but practicing???
 Have they not heard of track days?

Problem is, on a track you don't have the traffic you have on a public road. No matter how good you can be on a track, driving in traffic on such speed is also something that has to be trained, and you can't simulate such a situation. But they won't let someone train on public road if he/she didn't had some proper tracktime yet. ;)

At the other end of the scale I just got a nasty letter quoteing "photographic evidence" of me doing 36 mph in a 30! Seems to me to be a bit unfair (although I am biased), the evidence is that I was not travelling excessivly fast and I would have got the same for 59 mph which is far to fast for the area. So it looks like I will be contributing to the Dorset Counties christmas fund.  >:( 

I thought they had to provide evidence (i.e. a copy of the Gatso photo) with the speeding ticket.  I'd ask for a copy in case they've lost it, and ask for the calibration certificate.

Clarkson got off on a technicality

Ian you have to keep a sharp look out for those camera vans (safety camera team) as they lurk all over the county ,new hidey hole westbound A31 just past the St Leonards hotel outside the kennels , time you realise what it is its too late dude.

how do you ask for this, without p%ssing off the Police Orificer ?

M27 Pompey (J12) to Cadnam (J1). This appears to be a plod driver training ground... watch out for the Black skoda ST?,S there are 3. Have  the reg no's but not gonna list that for obvious reasons.
Would any of you think it is sensible to practice rolling road blocks on a busy Mway that is accident prone in rush hour.....? Seen it and heard it on the radio several times. Daft!
Use of blue lights is also in question locally to me.....
they are only to be used in emergency situations... yes? or to warn other road users of the approach of an emergency vehicle.....
Why did plod flash all his blues on me, make me pull in to Minstead turning (other side of road) and then hammer off with no lights flashing.
Traffic cops used to be decent blokes and \I know of people who have dragged with them using their timing gear on quiet roads to get actual speed readings.
The bike cop that let my mate ride his Pig Pan (No pun intended)while he tested his hopped up 'blade near Dorchester says it all.

The Skoda Swine drivers look like Mel Gibson in Mad Max..(Spiky hair black clothes) Big vests and shades.

Be careful... you can see the lights in the grille and they all have 3 ariels. normal black skodas have just the one.

Also used to inform drivers of an impending danger. Normally though the rear flashing light bar (roof mounted) will indicate Red.

Don't sound like our  :police: Robbo does it...

The unmarked cars usually have roof bars across the car, these have the lights built in. Most people remove these along with the roofbox or bike rails.

The locals used to warn me about the M27, but in those days it was bottle green 5 Series.  Never knew why, and they leave the M3 alone