Club Arnage

About time too......

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070725/tuk-uk-britain-carriers-fa6b408.html

Being built by UK companies too.

Good news, anyone want to have a sweepstake on how much overbutget it will go?

It's about time the RN had proper aircraft carriers again rather than those Harrier ski ramp jobs.

Steve, I'll think you'll find that although the Carriers are bigger, they still have the 'ski ramp' at the front.

Good news for Pompey and the remaining shipbuilding industry.  it's just a pity it's a French design!!!!!

Its just a shame they don't still have Harriers too, to fly off those lumps of fossilised steel tied up in Pompey.

Broke my heart seeing them tied up and unwanted. Twenty five years or so old is nothing for a ship, is it? Ask HMS Victory, parked just round the corner from them.

I think that an overspend and time overrun can be virtually guaranteed....all neatly adding to the already large hole in the defence budget. 

The dear old Harrier will almost certainly be out of service by the time the first carrier hits the water, and whilst there's no replacement yet, as JSF is being built by Lockheed Martin, I suspect we'll get them well before the floating airfields....

The names are suitably royal and deferential, but whatever happened to using good old inspiring carrier names like Illustrious, Ark Royal, Invincible etc etc....

MG Mark

The last I heard the CVF was going to be built with ski jumps, but with an option to remove and fit catapults, as the final design of the JSF was still a bit in limbo.  The version of the JSF that needs the ski jump has trouble taking off fully loaded as its too heavy.

Notice that they don't fully admit that they will be using the Thales design, as the Big and Expensive (BAe) design was rubbish   ;D ;D

What happened?

Well they cant reuse them whilst the originals are still hanging around can they?

If the JSF is going to be in service before the "Redouteable" and the "CDG" or whatever the EU decide to name them after they take over the Royal Navy and RAF (not much Army left to play with now is there?) They can probably fly them off the real Invincible, Ark Royal and Illustrious which may still be OK with a fresh coat of paint. I mean look how tiddly HMS Belfast looks from afar.

WTF is a JSF?

I believe it is something called a "Joint Strike Fighter"

Has VTOL and Viffing and is supposed to be not only a bit stealthy but also a bit dangerous and nasty in attack and defence...


We used to have a programme called P1154 in the late sixties early seventies...



However, I digress.

 :)

Names of 'warships' have always been 'inspirational' and create a following outside of the RN.  Take HMS's Sheffield, Coventry and Manchester as an example. Their 'Home Cities' are proud of them. On the non city based, Fearless, Albion, Bulwark, Hood, Vanguard etc.  Very Proud and very inspirational names.

We aleady have a QE2 & QM.  But PoW was also a famous and powerfull ship from eons ago.

God bless all who sail in then (eventually).

Regarding the Harrier's, The 'rights' were sold to the yanks who still build them and are always updating them. The Marine Corps think they are the bees knees.  What do we do, stop building them!!

These are awesome aircraft and we should be modifying/updating/building them still. These are ideal for sea based operations and in fact for any small operational areas.

Bloody governments, remember the TSR2?

Unfortuantely not.  The current carriers are tiny, and were originally LPHs (Landing Platform Helicopter), a bit like the current HMS Ocean.  They were retrofitted with the ski jump later in life.

Rumour has it, at one point in the design programme cost saving attempts mean that the CVF flight deck was shortened so much the JSF couldn't take off.  Then it was realised it was shorter than the CDG, which just won't do.  Its suspected that somewhere in the design docs its written in stone "the CVF shall be at least one inch longer than any french equivalent".   ;D

About time too indeed! I was working on CVF as early as 2004 when I was at BAE. Quite a few people relieved that 3 years work isn’t down the pan I imagine. When I was still there the plan was to assemble the ‘super blocks’ at the different yards (BAE in Glasgow & VT in Portsmouth) and then float them round to Rosyth in Edinburgh.

For a look at the JSF go and see the terrible new Die Hard movie as it features for about 5 minutes near the end. Quite funny as it hasn’t passed safety of flight yet!

" The current carriers are tiny, and were originally LPHs (Landing Platform Helicopter), a bit like the current HMS Ocean.  They were retrofitted with the ski jump later in life."

Not quite John boy, it was Hermes that was retrofitted with the ski jump, the Harrier carriers were built in that configuration, which is a damned good thing because the good old Illustrious was able to be a vital part of the Falklands Taskforce.

But yes they were originally intended to be chopper carriers but the Navalised Harrier received some Government recognition at just the right time to disperse a huge political storm for ... (guess which Governing Party)


Peter we have another good debate again huh!

I suppose it will be good to have some stealth in the air in the future, but why destroy our own production base this way? What a bunch of clowns...

Didn't the labour goverment who originally said there was no need for aircraft carriers, thus the old Ark Royal was scrapped. They then realised they were wrong and introduced through deck cruisers hey presto The Invincible class.

I can see the need for a carrier strike force, on a practical level, how on earth are we to protect them on operations?  Where are the Frigates and destroyers that are needed as Fleet protection?

Had a senior moment there, couldn't remember which of the "I"s was first, Invincible then!

We can always borrow other vessels from the rest of Europe of course, committed aint they?

 :(

Too true Bill, that is what happens when say NATO goes to war, it would be a mixed strike force, something like the Gulf at present, but during normal peace time, unless they are on exercise, we don't have enough surface ships to cover the need.  Belgium has more ships than us ???

All we have now is the equiverlent to a 'Fisheries Protection Force'.

Bring back the Cod Wars and we'd be *ucked!

As long as the SUN readers keep voting as Murdoch tells them we will always have Gordon the Scottish Taxer ruling what used to be a kingdom.

It really honestly scares me because the tree hugging idiot the cowardly tories gave their "MAIN MAN" job to is little, if anything, better

I think a UKIP or BNP vote is all I can do to protest with...

And once we had a Navy that was bloody worth the money

An Air Force that spelled out "FORCE"

And an Army that stood proud across the world and was looked up to, even by its adversaries...

And even a police force, not a police service...

My God, must be time for bed...

Perdu,

Can't argue with anything you've said.  100% with you.

Get everyone out voting, if they don't vote they have no right to complain.

BNP, probably no no, but UKIP!  Farage seems to be doing a good job but are they really serious about forming an 'administration?

Lib' Dems, only chance would be in a co-alition.

Tories, At least we'd get a referendum on the 'treaty'.

Labour,  more taxes, more regulation, etc.  Have you read George Orwell?  1984 is Labour's bible.

Why the f**k I'm still in this rain sodden, God forsaken, over taxed country I don't know, but it's my choice through necessity.

Thanks Matt. I bet it turns out to be some kind of flying thingy like we used to call Aeroplanes which morphed into Airplanes ::) What ever it is it's over budget already and it may or may not actually fly ;D
Phil

There are currently 6 Type45 Destroyers being built in Glasgow (possibly more to follow). 2 have been launched already and ship 3 is sitting proudly on the side of the Clyde.
The type 23 friggates aren't that old either. They were built all through the 90s.

Yup, 6 Type 45 only.  Originally was going to be 12, then cut back to 10, then 8.  6 are under contract, the other 2 aren't and if they every are it'll be so far into the future that they'll probably be a new class of 2 anyway.  So bascially we'll have two shiney new carrrier, with nothing to fly off them, and no frigates/destroyers to protect them.   :( :( :(

Finally a topic on here I know something about.  I can be a nerd too.  ;D ;D

Excellent news, it's great having that little bit extra of griff, with a bit of luck we can get indignantly pissed off too ;D

Our military is in a right old state all the juicy postings have long gone, so not much chance of a posting other to the sandpit again after coming back from operations.

Isn't this where we were 5 years ago?

And whilst shiny new carrier 1 is in for a respray, we only have one left to rule the world.  Having 3 was a better idea, ,as one would always be in dock

JSF images here:
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&prfr=false&ci=15401&sc=400&ti=&mm=&dd=&yy=&cpi=&bs=&es=&fti=&rsbci=15401&rsbi=

-Lee

Certainly hope it fly's since the rear fuselage is constructed about 150 yards away from where i build Eurofighter wiring looms !

Phil,

Aircraft please...... JSF is the big programme for the Lockeed Martin F-35 Lightining II  http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/jsf/ (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/jsf/).  The STOVL variant is the one they've having weight issues with (like too much of it), but the various variants will end up replacing a lot of aircraft give nt enumber of nat5ions signed up to the production and beyond phase

MG Mark

As far as I'm aware we are the only ones committed to the STOVL version at the mo.  The US don't want it for their carriers.  The US marines (I think?) may want it as a replacement for their harriers.  But if they don't sign up we could be in trouble as it won't be made just for us.  Could be looking at a marinised Typhoon yet (and thant's not an aircraft soaked in sauce overnight).

On the up side, the CVF are being designed so that they can be retrofitted with steam catapults and arrestor gear (another sucessful British invention we no longer use), so we can adopt the other version of the F-35.

The easiest way to wind up the retired naval bods in our office is to get them talking about CVF, T45, it ain't like it used to be....  Hours of fun  ;D  ;D

TBH there's an easier way to wind up the ex navy blokes I work with. ;D

John Boy, either Sea Typhoon, I guess buying from the French would be out of question 8), or use the Tornado's in store ;D

And i thought you meant bigger ferries to get to france!!