Club Arnage

I know many people dislike these petitions, but if you can find the time, please sign this one.

I know there are a few on here with a closer than most, connection to The Red Arrows.

Thanks.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/SaveTheReds/

I would be a great shame to see them disappear from the sky's due to another batch of government cutbacks......the next thing they will probably disband will be the army and air cadets as well......oh and our armed forces!!!!!

Done!

Done

Are these people really dedicated to destroying ALL forms of excellence in our society?

Disgusted of Streetly

 :)

I think that's already well advanced. Many support services are now PFId, or well on their way to being so.

Hi
I have done it for myself and the missus. We are very fortunate to see an air display in the Channel Islands every year, which includes the Red Arrows. We are also top money raisers per capita.

Will also send the link to the local paper.

>Martini...

I have signed it, but if i had a choice years ago, I would have dropped the Red Arrows to fund the last flying Vulcan instead.

In fact they could have paid for the repairs to be carried out on XH558 so she could have continued flying with the RAF Vulcan display flight for what it costs the RAF to operate the 10th and largely unseen back up Red Arrows Hawk for a year.

That was a no brainer for me, but we all know what happened with the Vulcan display flight.

Chris the 10th Red Arrow is a spare so that for any display they can fly the famous Diamond9.

The thing is the Red's are reviewed every year.

Done.

And now being dense.....but what is PFId?

As the collective noun goes, what a wunch of bankers. From a government who can't estimate the cost of anything they do and waste billions. I'd quite happily kick Tony Blair and his brown nosers until my foot fell off. I also signed one yesterday at the same site against the roadpricing/car tracking. I'll not be signing the 'Replace the National Anthem with Spandau Ballets Gold' though.

PFI is Private Finance Initiative. For example, the fire station where I work which the Local Authority owned, was knocked down and rebuilt in the same place and is now rented from Jarvis for 25 years. Ends up costing a fortune and the companies make vast amounts. The new M6 toll road is PFI over 25 years and the road has now been paid for in 3 years by the tolls generated. So virtually 22 years of pure profit are now left for the builders instead of the Government.

Thanks for the explanation......but if it ends up costing more in the long term......why do it?

Long may they continue to grace the skies and fire the imagination of young and old alike.

At the risk of opening a debate about the relative merits of the Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Patrouille de France and the Frecce Tricolori, the Reds are, in the words of the Tina Turner song - simply the best, better than all the rest.....so sign up.....please. 

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/gallery.html

MG Mark

Because it's the only way that governments can make ends meet now. They sold off all the "state industries" during the Thatcher days to raise money, some went for a song. Maybe the most obvious was privatisation of the rail service, which is already costing the taxpayer an arm and a leg in subsidies to the operating companies. They have no industries left to sell, so they are selling other state owned assets and renting them back at vastly inflated costs (e.g. the HM Revenue and Customs real estate was sold to an offshore company), or getting private companies to build new hospitals then leasing them back. That way, capital projects (hospitals/schools etc) can be initiated now, which is what they want/need, and paid for later. In the services, and I stand to be corrected, many of the logistics operations and other ancillary operations are now carried out by private companies (e.g Halcrow move tanks, ALL services training is about to be handed to a private company). There are some very dodgy accountancy processes whereby a new PFI project is justified (versus maintaining the status quo). The real costs of PFI kick in later, so in years to come 1) the state will own no assets and 2) there will be an enormous debt burden to sustain. However it's all Good Stuff for the Chancellor, as the cost of PFIs somehow goes off the balance sheet and therefore keeps government debt below the magic 40% of GDP (currently £35bn is "off balance sheets", and rising). Many hospitals are having to lay off staff and defer other projects in order to service their PFI debts. And lastly as an example, the HM R&C deal mentioned above was initially costed at £1.5bn, over 20 years. It's recently been confirmed that it will now cost £3.4bn, before inflation. No wonder there is a healthy market in buying and selling existing PFI deals.

btw I am no expert on this stuff. I'm sure there is another side to the argument, and I this is not anti-Labour - the Tories started PFI.

I really should get out more... :)

Summed up perfectly Smokie. Apart from  it was the Tories idea and they did'nt do one PFI deal. It was Labour who changed the legislation to allow the deals to be done.
Now thats enough political stuff for today, cue up the Dambusters March on the record deck and lets keep those Red Arrows Flying.

Indeed they are the best Mark. 

I saw the Patrouille Suisse at the Klausenrennen back in September and their show was poor by comparison.  I have to say though, when they flew in right over our heads it was pretty cool.   ;D

Petition signed and forwarded to others who do not frequent these pages...

Dx

WTF?  Got to admit to being completely mystified at the idea of the RAF demonstration team being disbanded. Is the RAF that hard up for cash?  Just wouldn't happen to the T-Birds and Blue Angels.
As far as the best, I've seen the Red's, very, very good, but until you've seen the USAF Thunderbirds do their signature high speed, high altitude starburst...you haven't seen the best.
Fax

Fax,

      You're not the only one that's mystified but, as you can appreciate, for some of us it is closer to home than others and one can't necessarily post what one actually thinks.  Suffice to say that it's part of a process that is called public sector budgets, and we hope sincerely that we don't need to take that step.  Moving onto an area where I may comment more freely, your last sentence is, of course a well-baited hook dangling for a bite......of course, we do it at high speed with 9 aircraft instead of 6 and at low level.....

 

......and for the real anoraks, from my post above, the Reds 7 picture is called the Spaghetti Break and the Reds 6 picture - even better - is called the Gypo Cross.....don't ask me why on the latter, I haven't got a clue!

MG Mark

Go mark!!

wikkid pics, and I can remember when I was younger watching our air display on st aubins bay and the red arrows doing their display and crossing at approx 30ft above the beach! (not any more mr H&S!)

I've stripped out the RAF / USAF debate to another topic here http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=6635.msg83423#msg83423 (http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=6635.msg83423#msg83423).  If you wish to continue that tirade, do it there.

If you want to Save the Red Arrows, do it here - Steve

Thanks for doing the house keeping on this Steve.

And well said, please try to help save the Red Arrows.

Recieved this reply today.

Good news.


E-petition: response from the Prime Minister
The e-petition asking the Prime Minister to "continue funding for the Royal Air Force Aerobatics Team - The Red Arrows" is on-going. This is a response in advance of the closing date from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

Thank you for signing the petition on the No.10 website calling for the maintenance of the Red Arrows. It is a sign of the place they hold in the national affections that so many people have joined you in signing it - one of the highest numbers since the e-petition service began. That's why I wanted to reply personally. It's also why I am replying before the petition officially closes, in order to reassure people who are clearly concerned.

I am pleased to be able to give you good news. There are no plans to change the funding for the Red Arrows, let alone to disband them.

It is important, of course, that the MOD looks at the full range of its spending plans as part of its routine financial planning, to ensure that taxpayers' money is spent where our Armed Forces most need it. Obviously it is this review which prompted fears that the Red Arrows might be scrapped.

However, like you, the Government recognises just what an important role the Red Arrows play in our national life. As the world's premier aerobatic team, they have thrilled millions of spectators over many years. I was lucky enough to see their extraordinary skills myself only last year at the Farnborough Air Show.

More importantly, the Red Arrows have maintained public support for the Royal Air Force, encouraged recruitment, acted as ambassadors for Britain in the world and promoted British industry for many years. So I am pleased to assure you that this government fully intends to keep the Red Arrows flying.

Thank you for signing this petition, and I hope you get a chance to see the Red Arrows yourself soon.

Yours sincerely,
Tony Blair
Further information
Red Arrows display dates for 2007
PM pays the Red Arrows a flying visit
Get all the latest news from No.10 by subscribing to our email service
10 Downing Street homepage
If you would like to opt out of receiving further mail on this or any other petitions you signed, please email optout@petitions.pm.gov.uk

Well hurrah for that - maybe we can just quote this reply direct from our great leader in future years, instead of having to justify it time and time again in every bloody spending review! 

Now, for those who didn't know it, you can request a flypast for events that you are involved in organising - and no, this is not taking the pi** or a wind up - the details are here:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/displayinfo/requestdisplsyflypast.cfm
http://www.deltaweb.co.uk/reds/downloads.html

The Reds do support fetes, school events etc.  The way it works is that they will do a flypast at your event if it is on the right day/time and they are enroute between planned displays.  It is a small way that we can give something back as well as via the big displays - last year they fitted in 7 dedicated flypasts (i.e. that is what they got airborne for) and 65 flypasts that were enroute between displays. 

Display programme is here - http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/displayinfo/may07.cfm - and it doesn't take the brains of a rocket scientist to work put whether or not you might be anywhere near a route on a particular day.

MG Mark

Hi Mark
This does, of course, assume that everyone knows where they are stationed.... the itinerary states clearly where they are going to, but not from where they came. Not much of a plane buff, I'm not at all sure where the Red Arrows are based. A bit nit-picking, but I certainly don't have the brains of any kind of scientist, rocket or otherwise.
Regards
Matt

Matt,

Quite right, should have added that - unless they are night stopping elsewhere between displays, they are based at RAF Scampton, just north of Lincoln.

MG Mark

WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT THEY DON'T NECESSARILY RETURN TO SCAMPTON AFTER EVERY DISPLAY.  FOR EXAMPLE AT THE RNAS Yeovilton International Air Day, Somerset, 7TH JULY, FOLLOWED BY THE BRITISH GRAND PRIX, 8TH JULY, THE REDS WOULD REMAIN AT YEOVILTON OVERNIGHT, YUMMY, AND THEN FLY NORTH.  MAYBE FITTING YOU IN ALONG THE WAY :P

HOPE THAT MAKES SENSE,

TRY HERE FOR BOOKING INFO

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/displayinfo/requestdisplsyflypast.cfm (http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/displayinfo/requestdisplsyflypast.cfm)

ARRRRRGGGHHHHH! caps lock OVERDOSE!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Ah, OK. I once conducted a sales meeting at a hotel just north of Lincoln. Above the bar (I can't, for the life of me, remember what I was doing in there), was a very large, very old, gnarly tree-limb - with a little engraved brass plaque beneath it. The legend read that it was removed from the undercarriage of an Avro Lancaster that was limping back to Scampton, after a nocturnal delivery over occupied Europe in the forties. Apparently, the plane had taken a bit of a battering and didn't quite clear the trees on it's final approach. Thankfully it got it's young, brave crew back in one piece and toted an extra piece of lumber, in the deal. Clearly, the hotel was used as a watering-hole by these guys on their nights-off.
Weren't the Dambusters based at Scampton? 

I remember when I was at school, on clear days we could make out weird patterns appearing in the clouds way way off to the east.  One day it dawned on us that it was the red arrows practicing about 40 miles away...  Cool...

WHIST I'M ON MY NATIONALIST SOAP BOX NIGHT, THEY CAN'T AXE THE RED ARROWS, IT WOULD BE LIKE SHOOTING THE ROYAL FAMILY AND SELLING OFF THE ROYAL PALACES TO MAKE A FEW BUCKS AND SAVE FEW IN THIS YEARS BUDGET - IGNORING THE WIDER REVENUE.
(CAP'S AWAY - SORRY PAPPA)

Actually I think it a bit sad that they have saved the Red Arrows  ???

I was hoping the general public would make Blair and Brown run around an Airfield with a rocket up their arse’s!  ;D

Now that would have been entertainment and a good use of a politician.


Actually I remember the watching the Arrows practice in the late 70's/ early 80's when they were based near Cirencester - Kemble I think. That why I failed English, too busy looking out of the window at skool than payin any attention.

A huge "Thank you" to all the folks on here, that took the time to sign up.

Saved.