Club Arnage

To add to the zoned camping and marked pitches on MB, another restriction seems to be in the offing.

I found this on Beermountain.


http://221test.co.uk/beerm/viewtopic.php?t=1167

Looks like trouble to me :o

Yes, I plead guilty for 2005. We had a far too large area for the amount of tickets we had. In 2006 JPC, Delboy and us shared 30+ tickets between us. If they start acusing us of selling beer, then maybe they could have taken the trouble of investigating, instead of making a (wild) guesses and acusements.

Can't wait 'till 2008, where tented people will start to complain about being appointed to the rock solid ground where team JPC was in 2005. I hope the ACO will have their drill hammer ready :-\


By the way, we will take a truck for 2008 again, only to park it up at the lorry parking after tipping our stuff at MB.

I always understood that it was 1 ticket = 1 vehicle and you had 30+ tickets between you . If you look at the arial photo taken last year of your campsite there is nowhere near 30 vehicles, so you were perfectly within your rights to use the amount of space you did.

Sour grapes I think from those that don't get there early

35 sq mtr per ticket, so we were entitle to 1050 sq mtrs, roughly an area of 38 by 32 yards. Sounds about right with what we had ;D

And you gave access to everyone on Friday night for the Flying Bagguetts gig

I see that the user name of the post on BM, is Delboy, it is not our very own Delboy having a wind up is it, come in Delboy.

This really concerns me for obvious reasons!

Clear enough if you check this link --> http://221test.co.uk/beerm/search.php?search_author=Delboy
Don't think 'our' Delboy is in need to ask for GA prices in 2006! ;D

And Rick, my guess is as long as you pay for the space, you'll be intitled to it ;)

I guess we will just have to go to another race then every year, for the cost involved in the weekend, Sebring is a good alternative for me.

Or we can try to get our own CA campsite next to the track, it is worth a shot!

I think that set ups like DfH and JPC are alien to the French, and they're terminally confused.

With the formation of the "company sportive" they have a new vision and probably employed somebody with a diploma in leisure amenity management. 

Most campsites do not like goups of people (especially all male) as they tend to be noisy and objectionable.

My guess would be that they want us louts in Beausejour out of the way, whilst a select few, like the owners clubs e.g. Porsche GB will be invited to the numbered pitches in the central campsites.

I think its time to tell the ACO what they don't know

Nail on the head, Lorry.

The French don't do things like the rest of the proper English  speaking world (and I include the Dutch and Germans here). They do not have a male bonding beer drinking culture like us. Nor do they have a sufficiently open mind to ask what their guests (AKA paying customers) may or may not want. Some people might say this is born of an inherant arrogance. But not me. I think they're just plain stupid. Why oh why do we in the rest of Europe have to put up with them?  :(

The BM Delboy lives in Peckham. A coincedence?  The Delboy that we Know and love lives (I believe) in Somerset.

Absolutely true, Bob - I was just about to post when you did.

And thank you for the few kind words   :-* :-* :-*

Del

To me it smacks of profiteering on behalf of the company that now runs the campsites for LM week and any othe event they care to run.

Pack them in with minimal space for as much profit as humanly possible.

Sod the real enthusiasts who for the past 75 years have supported the race.

As has been said .Car clubs!!!!!  = potential hospitality? and yes put the supposed great unwashed down on BSJ

Enough said!!!!!!!!

The great unwashed in BSJ - I'll have you know BSJ has the finest showers in all of Le Mans  :P

if necessary we probably will go back to BSJ, we have proven to be able to party there as well :D

Jay,

No offence meant.....I too have been on BSJ twice.

The first time I was on there when it was opened .........it was a field with no facilities at all.Really making for the "great unwashed".

Now it is for a bunch of "softies" ......just like us on MB.

What I meant though ,was that we may all be pushed off MB due to it's locality to the circuit,therfore making ideal for possible club use rather than general camping as has been suggested.

But we do stand a chance....afterall we are Club Arnage.!!!!

Having camped on BSJ for the last couple of years, i thought last year they were having trouble packing them in on the Saturday morning.
With increased French interest this year it could be another record crowd. They will probably be a bit more vigilant on all campsites.

Maybe we are to blame ??

I know that the entitlement per ticket is litle more than a car and tent next to it. Its not a lot of space.

We bought 7 tickets last year for 5 vehicles and i think we just about had enough space and weren't infringing the rules.

The more and more they  - is the kermit fuzz do this, makes me consier not bothering going at all.

2 of us started in 99 and now we take 26. All of which hadnt ever tried the event....

This year we are on Bleu Nord, as i could only muster a potential 3 MB tickets from a ring around. It will be a shame to be away from the party, but we are just going to take a few push bikes for better transport....

For the Moto 24 we are again in MB with our special ACO tents where they keep the riff raff out.

Maybe the 24 is going to go that way.

Rows and rows of ACO branded tents. . . . . . .

It irritates me that groups like DfH get pointed at when the subject of space per pass is mentioned when, as Rick says there were more than enough passes to cover off the space that DFH, Del, JPC and Rick's groups had last year.  Most of us on here made damn sure last year that we had enough passes to go around as we thought the ACO were going to be tough on space allocation last year.

I wonder whether some of the other groups would be able to say the same thing?   The groups that turn up with a big motorhome and then park the rest of their cars out in the carparks take up a lot more space than their one or two passes allow them.

It's interesting that on all of the threads on CA about space the one thing we are all agreed on is that there should be an allocation of space per pass and that the ACO should enforce it whereas on some other sites there is more discussion about the cost of having to buy additional tickets...

this is getting out of hand, can any of our anglo french friends please talk to some land owners.
for JPC DFH Etc is the ACO just taking the urine or what.
so for future space me and my motorbike will get would be for me to put a tarp over the bike for a tent..... bolx. Paddy can i pitch on the top of the lorry?
T he ACO are getting greedy, that includes the worry of traders legal or illegal, just try selling in the track and someone is on your back.
good point made about writing to the ACO general but being french may fall on deaf eyes.
It might be back to the residents' back gardens as it once was.......

Zoned and allocated pitches cause other problems.

I have stayed in Houx for the last 3 years where the pitches are marked in rows.  Last year whoever marked out the pitches must of had the plan upside down as normally they avoid the areas with big trees.  But we had large areas without trees or pitches and were trying to pitch tents around tree trunks.

Plus the pitch is just big enough to take a tent and a car.  Previously I have gone in a group and we lump together our pitches and use the space as parking, tent and communal.  Problem is some people do similar but use the access space in the rows to park their cars.  One poor guy was arriving late - hence selecting Houx where his pitch was allocated - only to discover that he couldn't actually get his car to the pitch as the access was blocked.  The camp marshalls just shrugged their shoulders and walked away.  When the guy asked the owners to move their cars he received a load of verbal abuse.

This wasn't helped by some people photocopying their pitch passes as we discovered three cars had the same pitch number.

All these guys were Brits - makes you proud don't it - the only saving grace was that they appeared to be northerners.   :-\

Plus if you are making a group buy - don't expect your pitches to be together - you may find that someone else has a pitch in the middle of your allocation.

I can never make up my mind if the French are naturally difficult or if it is something they have to work at.

All these guys were Brits - makes you proud don't it - the only saving grace was that they appeared to be northerners.

What has being from the North got to do with it, and please explain why it was a saving grace, and how do Northeners appear to be like to you >:(

Comments like that do not go down well with Northeners that play by the book, and this site that has a lot of members North of Watford gap could do without bigoted comments like that.

Angry from the North.

Sorry - poor attempt at humour   >:(

Just that a normally good weekend was tarnished by some inconsiderate individuals who appeared unable to respond to a polite request to move their cars so the guy could access his pitch.

Most of us just want to go to Le Mans, watch a bit of racing and have a good time.  Unfortunately a minority of people seem to be hell bent on being animals.

In the last 3 years I have seen the atmosphere changing. We were on a coach to Le Mans town for Friday night - on the way back some spectators lining the roads to the camp sites thought it was acceptable to try and dent every panel of the coach as it passed. 

I can understand to a point why the French are bringing in some rules and regulations - the no swimming pools was probably as a result of a few people emptying them on the Sunday and soaking everyone else nearby who were staying an extra night.

It is always a minority that spoil it for the majority.

Sorry your wrong again, France had a similar water shortage to us last year, hence the ban on pools and given that all water is metered and a medium sized pool will take 20,000 ltrs, most did not think it was unreasonable. Dont know if will ever be eased, but I dont know of any instances of tents being flooded out.

The ban on pools didn't extend to the houses locally.  A lot of the properties in the area around the circuit had similar sized temporary pools in their gardens as noticed on the bus back from Arnarge.  But I agree that it does seem unfair that the campsites have unlimited access to water supply if the locals have to pay by usage.

We got the distinct impression that the pool ban would be permanent - water supply or not - especially due to the changes in fixing to the standpipes to allow a timed flow.

As far as I know this was a local law last year, because of the water shortage, there was also e.g. a hose pipe ban for private households in force, so from my understanding the ACO HAD to ban pools to comply with this law. Situation might be different this year, we just should watch out for the latest news on the web about this topic.

Cheers

Werner

I think the pool issue was very much an ACOism for last year.  Locally families had pools and the stores were happily selling pools. 

Im sure it was related to the water shortage but I think it was also a good excuse to avoid the space taken up by pools, reduce the water used and avoid any problems of pools being emptied onto others tents (more of an issue in Houx I think because of the layout of pitches). 

I dont think we will see pools back on the campsites as we did previously. 

Plus any other Pool Conspiracy Post !!

 :( :(

Why is it people constantly seem to blame the ACO for just about everything they don't like.

It was made very clear last year, that the pools were banned due to water shortages, just as we had water shortages in the South of England. In fact my hosepipe ban was only lifted a week ago.

There were links to an official French Government (assuming a .gouv.fr link is official) site, which detailed the restrictions (out of date link here = http://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=741 ), but I guess it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the ACO got the Government to implement this restriction purely to upset the Brits at the 24 hours  :o

Just as we cannot be held responsible for what our neighbours do in times of drought, you cannot hold the ACO responsible for those people living near the track abusing any restrictions. What you HAVE to expect, however, is that as a large corporate body, they themselves are liable to enforce said restrictions on people using their property and services.

What everyone seems to be missing, is that generally the 24 hour event is becomming more popular every year, and with the growing numbers of visitors comes a growing responsibility to accomodate them. Unfortuantely, often the way to control larger numbers, is to implement tighter restrictions and to enforce them. I guess we have two choices, accept the changes, live with them and get on with enjoying ourselves, or protest and stop going. I can pretty much assure you though, that there are enough new visitors, that the ACO probably would not be too concerned at people staying away in protest.

Having thought about it some more, I believe the ACO/French are on a mission to "repostition" the Le Mans event to attract more families and the corporate clients and we will see a few changes over the next few years.

Try looking at it from another perspective.  How would we feel if 500,000 foriegners (mainly French males) encamped in a field near our home town for a long weekend each year.  They then decend into the town on a Friday night and some of them drink themselves into oblivion, insult the bar staff, smash up tables and glasses and then burn rubber in the town square leaving behind a major clear up operation.

By imposing more rules and making it a more attractive event to families, they can reduce their policing bill and hopefully the cost of clearing up as familes are perceived as more caring about the environment.  The improved facilites will attract more corporate clients who will push up the profit margins and assist the racing teams with sponsorship deals.

I think we will also see some substantial price rises in the next few years.

Calm down Mr Invisible....did you read the rest of my post?

The "Im sure it was related to the water shortage" might have given you some idea of my views.

The ACO are clearly trying to deal with some of the historical problems on the sites, there is a huge lout culture, there is a lot of mess, there is a lot of wasted water and there is a lot of wasted space. 

Where do I say that they are to blame for that or that is wrong?   I just want them to put fair systems in place, run them properly and enforce them properly and consistently so that everyone knows what is going on.  If they want to ban pools fine - we've never had one and I can see why they would want to ban them for all the reasons I mention in my earlier post.

I work for a number or race organising clubs, we're always wrong as far as punters, marshals and drivers are concerned so if you think I'm just ACO bashing you've picked the wrong person! 

Big M,

      By your comments in a couple of your previous posts ,It would appear that you are a wannabe journalist

( probably wanting a job on the Sun ), We have Attacks on Brits, Northerners, People damaging coaches

( Obviously Brits), Had people Smashing Tables and Glasses(Obviously Brits), Etc.Etc    All obviously Northerners !!

M ,
      visit us at our usual spec on MB and we will show you what Northerners do..........We will offer you a Beer!!!!

and forgive your ranting

Now I didn't say that this time.   :-\ 

Might just take you up on that beer just to make sure that you have chilled out and not gone all PC on me.  Whatever next - you will be telling me that Essex Girl jokes are not funny.

Big_M   (female from Essex)   ;)

This is getting fun.

As for loads of yobs camping in your home town and making lots of noise, I'd just like to mention the Reading Festival.  Generally, I think we're quite well behaved.  We may leave a mess, but we've been allowed to.  Perhaps they should remind us to clear up (we do)

The campsites probably need more organisation, but if they allocate pitches, and teams are split up, they will congregate at one pitch and probably annoy the neighbours.

As for the bars and pools, we are there for a week, without any of the usual campsite facilities - its a bit of harmless fun.

And yes, there was a water shortage in France last year

@Piglet... I was not in particular having a go at you Piglet, it just happened that yours was the last post in the thread and contained a "barbed" dig at the ACO (which is how I read the ACOism remark), even though it did go on to mention the water shortage.

Which is why, after the quote I also posted

I am just starting to get upset with what seems to be a growing culture of ACO bashing, simply because people who have been getting away with various freedoms in the past are now being put back on the straight and narrow, and asked to comply with regulations which are there to try and make it a fairer and more enjoyable experience for all. And before anyone gets any thoughts about that comment, I will state that it is NOT aimed at anyone in particular, but just a general feeling I now have about the event. It is why I have decided to stop attending, but perhaps if the ACO can manage to straighten things out a bit, I will consider going again in the future.

However that does not mean I am not man enough to apologise if my original post was miss-understood and caused you some offence. It was not my intention, and I am sorry.

Coo, Mr Invisible, and I thought I was a lone voice here!  I've said this before but hey, what the heck.  I have been going for the last 30 odd years to a music festival.  You turn up, get parked by an official, and have room for one medium sized tent behind your car.  You are told that if you want to camp next to somebody else, that you meet before you arrive and drive in together.  Otherwise, tough.  Nobody ever moans about this system nor ever has.  Maybe we've just been a bit spoilt at LM.  Allocating pitches seems perfectly fair to me and I know I would be seriously peeved if I'd paid good money for a specific site, only to turn up and find it was full because others had been greedy.  Marking pitches is one of the few ways this can be policed and record crowds make it more difficult every year.

Yes, on a personal level I think it would be a shame if DFH couldn't bring all there paraphanalea (sp?) to MB and entertain us with their hospitality etc but I can see how what they do may be perceived by others as taking up more space than they are entitled to.  We on CA know how many pitches they pay for and we know they are scrupulously fair about it but others do not.  I've seen on other fora, threads about the selfish nature of some campers in "bringing huge lorries and setting up grandstands, syphoning off loads of water for oversized pools etc" and "we get moved off to BSJ having paid for MB."  It would p*ss me off and the ACO needs to be seen to be doing something about it.  The idea that the great race might somehow be spoiled because you have to camp somewhere different is, frankly, ridiculous.  Look how many different sites CA'ers camp on, and how defensive they are about their particular reasons for liking each specific one.  If our mates are somewhere different, we can always walk to meet them - now there's a novel idea!

Please give this ACO bashing a rest.  I suspect in some cases it's just thinly disguised xenophobia anyway.

I'm not excusing the 'bashing', but I feel that the ACO have brought a lot it on themselves.  They havn't exactly covered themselves with glory in the organisation department over the years.  Don't forget that they organised it so well that they went bust a few years ago and had to be bailed out.  And why are many of us on tenterhooks for 3 months of the year, waiting to see if/what tickets have been allocated (they have 'lost' my order for this year, in spite of them sending me an order acknowledgment).

And no, the race itself would not be spoiled if the camping rules are changed - but many people (including myself) go for the whole experience, which includes the weeklong partying on the campsites in the company of not only my own group, but other groups from different parts of the county, and from other countries.  If I just wanted to see the race, I would go on Friday and come back Sunday.  There is nothing wrong with the ACO in marking out the pitches, provided that they include a scheme whereby groups that want to pitch together can do so.  There is no evidence of such a scheme being implemented, even for the 'zoning' of some of the sites this year.

I'd be the first to admit that a couple of years ago, some groups had far more space than a) they were allowed and b) they needed, but that has changed and the 4 or 5 groups in the platinum triangle last year actually had less space than they had purchased, bearing in mind that the truck and generator were on waste ground not suitable for camping, and the 'grandstand' was on the banking.  Perhaps we should have put up a large sign telling others that we had over 30 tickets between us!

However, I agree that the ACO should not be blamed for everything.  Most of the changes to the circuit have been forced on them, although I still do not understand the reason to change the esses/entrance to the Bugatti circuit when there are 2 tighter corners on the Bugatti circuit itself!

I have been going to LM now since 1965, and up till now, the whole experience has got better and better every year.  If the ACO do not implement a decent booking system, then I will be re-assessing my own involvement - I know the ACO will not lose any sleep over this, but it does seem that they are trying to solve one problem by generating another.

Over and out - I'm off for a pint!!

Del

I find it incredibly frustrating that voicing an opinion is seen as "ACO bashing" (I'll ignore the xenophobic comment which given the make up of this forum is actually quite amusing).

I wrote a whole lot more but frankly it's not worth the effort. 

No probs, I'm quite difficult to offend - you'd need to try waayyy harder

Spot on Delboy & Piglet

Perception is reality and all that...

The ACO, other campers etc see large areas maked off and apparently not in full use and therefore assume that people have used more than their fair share.

So doesn't having marked pitches fix this problem?

It also helps the problem of people with tickets turning up date and the Full sign being up.

So all in all it seems fairer to me, even though I don't like the idea...


The only oddity was that the zoning plan seemed to omit some fairly large areas (e.g. the Golden Triangle) - maybe they intend reserving these for ticketless late arrivals.

Paraphernalia

In my opinion it's the ACO who are the xenophobes.

The only good thing about the zoning and allocated space control is that we will not have any more discussions about who is using to much space, this will end fairly quick in this way. However, joining sites between groups will become more and more difficult, but like term.. said, we could always walk!

Now I am just hoping they will let us in with our bar, whitout accusing us of selling beer to spectators.

Lads calm down. I think what Big M really means is North Westerners ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Oi! - cheeky bu**er.    :o

F

Ah!!!!!!!! FELLA, you avin ago, at us scousers. I'LL send the lads round, and we'll have you wheels faster than any F1 team. ;D     

Alright  Stu. :D

see you there,
Mike

My email from the ACO asking whether I will be able to enter MB with an American Motorhome or whether I have to go to another 24 hour in another country was:-

Agreeing all the way here, as long as you can reserve the spot you'd like as well. Just get 20-odd French youngsters at the gate (who can talk a little English please), and let them guide us one by one to our space. Can't see the problem with that.

Thanks Rick,
You have saved me the same call in the morning.

Mike

Agreed. we're going round in circles a bit here I think.  From the first thread we all agreed it was fair to buy an amount of space and to use that amount only.  The issue is aoout how that is managed at the site. 

It will be interesting to see how this works on the ground on the Monday morning when the queue is halfway up the road. 

If they move to proper allocated pitches next year (like Houx) hopefully a lot of the potential problems will be avoided.  But having had a Houx pitch with a tree in it (7 x 5 including a tree doesn't give you much room....) I hope that some thought will be given to the areas that are really not useable.   The edge where we were last year is a good example, there is a strip around 2 m wide that you cannot get pegs into.  We have rock pegs and a metal lump hammer and couldn't pitch anything there.