Club Arnage

Just for shits & giggles, after listening to my father bleat on about the state of professional sports, I realized my stance on motor racing probably sounds similarly outdated & stale.
So, as a New Years resolution, I'm going to start watching F1 again at the beginning of the new season and give it a shot, especially now that whats-his-face is gone.  I may go on a four lettered rant after two races, but I'm still going to TRY to be nice and get along with it.  I am a motor racing fan at heart.  But Tony George and his pile of crap IRL can still go F*ck Off!
Fax

Well done, Just see it for what it is and try not to compare it to the 50' 60's 70's or 80's.

I must confess i did watch most of the races in the later part of last season and it was not all bad. There was in fact a fair bit of overtaking and action, if only they where not glued to the road so much it would be a whole lot better.

I think sometimes we do look back on the quality of the races in the past thru rose tinted glasses, some where complete and utter bores and the drivers where not all gods.

I look forward to reading you impression after the first race, or when you have sobered up, whichever comes first!

I am a closet F1 watcher, but there are definately summer Sundays when I think afterwards that I have just wasted 90 minutes which I could have spent out in the sunshine.  Losing Shuey and having the current champ move to what was last year a no hope team will undoubtedly make the first couple of races accademically interesting at least.
Fax, I'm so glad you've made this decision.  I anticipate your 4 letter rants with more enjoyment than I do the F1 season! ;D

I've watched F1 since about 1990, though Champ Car was my favorite.  As American open wheel racing has shriveled thanks to the idiot grandson, my interest in F1 has increased.  I can count on a full field on a quality road course (compared to the streets of Houston, not the Nordschleife), and the different approaches to technology interest me.  I can see why some dislike it, it's just more abundant and easier to follow in the press than sports cars, etc.

The ALMS has really picked it up over the last 2-3 years, but they're not on TV every 2 weeks.

Best of luck, Fax.  ;D

Well Fax it is good of you to be honest, though if I think if any of us are going to be really honest, dare I say it.... here it comes... it is coming...

Le Mans racing isn't exactly exciting either

Ok I said it and will stand by it, there is the spine tingling, hair on the neck standing up feeling at the start and generally a great release at the end but in between there is not really a lot happening, pit stops create interest, the odd spin and the spectacle of the night racing is good. This all makes for a good reason to sit around the tent eat and get pissed... I think I love Le Mans now... Oh I forgot, it is also a reason to get away from the missus for a week  ;D

>Martini...

Thanks guys, Nordic very well done, you can sniff out someone who's had a few brews a thousand miles away ;D
But I meant what I said, I am a motor racing fan at heart, and I ate, slept, and breathed F1 for twenty some years before getting burned out on it.  I think I've avoided it enough to give it another fair crack.  And oh boy! This is really biting the bullit...When I've seen the current cars in person at Indy, they can be quite exciting to watch.  However the last two races at Indy have been utter clunkers (I can't even refer to the 2005 event as a race).  As was very well pointed out, some of the races from the good old days weren't always good.  I re-watched the '82 French GP a few days ago, and apart from Ricardo Patrese's Brabham turning into a rolling bonfire, and the fight between Rosberg and Alboreto for fifth, it was a pretty dull race.  The old long circuit at Ricard was really something though.
Looking forward to a see how Raikkonen gets on at Ferrari, as well as  Alonso-McLaren.
Fax

Do you have to contend with the cock commentating?

 

(http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/iccoventry/oct2001/0/9/00023F3E-C1C7-1BC5-B55380C328EC01CA.jpg) <this is the cock.

No, and by all acounts we're thankful for that.  The US F1 commentating team is actually a very good one, Bob Varsha (who covered F1 for ESPN for many years before joining Speedchannel), David Hobbs, and Steve Matchett, who's probably the best of the bunch.  The only guy among the US crew I don't like is pitlane reporter Peter Windsor.
My dislike of him stems mostly from some articles he's written in various magazines that were clearly some of the most bogus, fabricated BS to ever be put to paper.
Fax

I have the good fortune to get Jacques Lafitte and Patric Tambay here - what a relief after Mr t*ssp*t.

Jacques and Patrick would be a fabulous team to have doing the coverage.  Both great personalities, and bucketloads of experience.  I had hoped at one point Patrick would do US coverage, his English is excellent (he was educated at the University of Colorado) and his wife Dana is American.
Fax

They are so professional, Fax.  When we go back to the English coverage for Mr Termite's benefit, I cannot believe the difference.  How easily one's view of a sport is affected by a commentator.

On occasion I watch the ITV footage, listening to Radio 5 (When they have simultaneous coverage of course)

When this is impossible, I just feel for Martin 'high waist' Brundle. I wonder how many times he does the 'slow blink' that is used when you're in the company of a loud mouthed halfwit. With  microphone broadcasting to millions.

so you totally ignore what I thought was a controversial post??? SEE BELOW if you care not going to even sign off....may not even sign on............ again...................adeu

Oh, don't go, Martin!  Just got diverted by the pic' of t*ssp*t and didn't see yours - oops!

Do you watch the same race that I do?  Do you watch the race any more?  I'm convinced that the people who believe this do not watch anybody but those engaged in the impossible attempt to beat the might of Audi.  Were you watching the fascinating and ever changing battle between Corvette and Aston?  Did you sit opposite their pits and watch the pit-crews engaged in head to head battles at almost every stop?  Were you following the nail-biting finale to the LMP2 battle, wondering if the RML Lola would be repaired in time?  Did you watch the stonking GT2 battle and follow the lead changes throughout the 24 hours and cheer as the little orange Panoz of team LNT beat the big boys and put a Panoz at the top of a class podium for the first time?
Were you there?

How's that?

LMAO -  ;D

*hands back Martini's dummy*

F

Martini has a point. There, I said it. When I'm in Le Mans or Sebring or whatever endurance race, I just don't have the information about what's going on in the race. It's pretty hard to determine what battles are going on.

That information, in my view, is essential to enjoy the race to the fullest. Last year, on Sebring, I saw somebody with a Gameboy and an iCard (www.icardus.com (http://www.icardus.com)) which does tell you clearly what's going on, because you get the same data as the teams. They are expanding to Europe as well, doing among others Le Mans and the full LMS series. I'm getting one! It can also be plugged into your laptop.

As for F1: I'm giving it another shot as well. Lots of Dutchies nowadays, hell, we even have a Dutch team in there! I won't go see a race live, but as said, last year's F1 wasn't that bad at times. At least I knew what was going on.

The live timing monitors in the ACO areas do help a lot, plus the ability to understand "Bruno the Mouth", I'll admit.  And watching on TV helps - I would never go to a live F1 race again - not least because of the moronic ignorant crowd.  I've re-watched last year's LM a couple of times now (sad or what?) as I recorded it - you learn a lot more when you are getting up to date info'.

Morning everyone... what a lovely day... the sun is shining  ;D

>Martini...

'Morning Martini. You're right, it's a beautiful day. I'm going to give the outside world another try.

Goodbye

Fax good luck with your New Years resolution. I like many on this site I suspect, will often turn on the F1 on a quiet Sunday afternoon and peep at it over the newspaper and a can of Beer. But I do have to say that by about lap fifteen I am usually soundly asleep. I find the entire thing wonderfully soporific. I often wake as they are spraying the bubbly.

As for Martini’s comment  earlier about Le Mans being boring, I am sorry for him. This year (God willing) I make my 21st trip to the Worlds greatest motor race. I have never ever had a moment of boredom ever - that is why I keep going back.


 

Yes, monkey, I cannot recall having been bored for a moment.  I simply resent the fact that by about 4 o'clock in the morning I just can't stop myself taking a couple of hours' kip, I am so anxious that I should miss nothing.  F1, 15 minutes and zzzzzzzzzzzz

Boredom was not mentioned, and I do not need to be pitied. It is, as you say, (probably) the Worlds greatest motor race, and I have been going, albeit with a missed few years in the middle since '85.

But, I do not believe the racing is as good as it was and it is all to easy to take time away from the track. Also while the new buildings are very nice there is a certain amount of character missing, I think it has lost the almost 'family' feel, not that there are too many full families that go other than the French.

Monkey I made the comment after going to Sebring last year and realising again what motorsport can be like instead of feeling like a caged animal behind the fences. Although in saying that there needs to be a certain consideration toward safety, which on the other side of the pond there does not seem to be. Sebring is the only one I have been to although if you look at the pictures from Road Atlanta this seems to be very much the same.

If you do make it to this years event, and I hope you can, I will be on HA and gladly share a bit of your 21st anniversary cake and a beer.

Cheers

>Martini...

It has always seemed bizarre to me that in a country which is perceived by Brits to be so litigation mad, there seems to be less catch fencing at US circuits like Sebring.  Why is this?  I can understand modern circuits in Europe going over the top on safety as there is a huge fear, it seems to me, of getting sued out of existance if they don't.  Fax - any ideas?  ECA

Martini - that's a spurious argument - catch fencing doesn't make the racing more or less interesting, how can it?  It does make taking pics bl**din' difficult but can't for a moment effect what goes on on track! (You asked for it! ;D)

I havent been to Sebring in the flesh, but from watching a lil film on youtube from a race there, it does seem a terrifically wide track, maybe that makes a difference to the need for catch fencing?

It certainly looked a lot wider than LM, tho I suppose that could have been an optical illusion!

F

I'll be able to tell for myself soon! ;D (Sorry, Fran, don't mean to make you jealous.)

I must confess to having a few moments at Le Mans thinking I won't make the effort next year the race has failed to live up to expectations, or i am soaking wet, roasting hot or just plain pissed off about something

It always passes and come the Sunday evening I am thinking about the next year.

I do think the Audi steam roller has taken some of the tenseness out of the race, the cars are just to damm good. Whereas before, whoever was the favorite, aways seemed to have an achilles heal.

Monkey, when you bring your cake over to martini, I should be camped next to him and we can discuss the last 20 years.

Hopefully I should be attending my 28th this year so it does seem to have a hold on me like so many others here. ;)

Re the catch fencing, I think of all the tracks in the world, Le Mans has the most reason to be slighty over cautious. The real question is if the fencing would make any differance in the evnt of a crash.

It may catch the debris, but I doubt it would make alot of a differance in the event of a big one.

Enjoy!!!   >:(

Mind you, it was the Saleen clip that I was watching from Sebring..!!!

F

Morning Guys,
Nice to get back on a racing thread after last night's debacle.
Regarding the debris fencing, this is something that's come up before and everyone seems to have pretty strong opinions on the issue.  As far as why there seems to be less of it at US venues?  Its mostly a case of putting it where its really needed, and leaving well enough alone where its not.  You don't need to be a rocket scientist to look at a particular corner, or spectator location and figure out whether or not there needs to be fencing.  At Le Mans it seems to me that some of it has been erected simply for the sake of being seen to have done something to improve safety, whether its actually needed or not.  On the back of every ticket sold at a motor racing event in the United States there is a disclaimer in big bold letters saying MOTOR RACING IS DANGEROUS, spectate at your own risk.  If one goes to a superspeedway you can purchase seats literally a few feet from packs of cars hurling past at 200mph Its your choice to sit there or not.  Some people do, some won't.
Fax

Being a GT gal myself, that's the action I watch and GT2 especially has provided great battles as long as I've been going.  Endurance racing is as much about who finishes too so watching the changing fortunes of the smaller teams over the years (the Moggie, the Spykers - can I call them small these days? - that Lambo... there are loads), biting your nails wondering if they'll get to the end; will Huge Chamberpot fix the car in time to get to the race, let alone the finish?  There's so much going on all the time, I rarely find the race in the least bit tedious.
When I went to the circuit earlier in the week, I felt the whole buzz the moment I drove up behind the stands.  When that feeling goes away, I'll know I've died!

Very true, but it does serve you right for bringing the subject of 22 over-paid prima donnas chasing the wrong shaped ball round a field for 90 minutes up in the first place! (Retiring to air-raid shelter right now!)

Absolutely Deb, I've got nobody to blame but myself.
I wish I'd never posted that. Now I'm sucked into it like a great black hole.
Fax

We are most grateful, Fax.  We're just sitting on the terraces watching a Fax and a Rhino slugging it out, and pitching in with the odd helpful (?) comment! ;)

Nothing much on telly this afternoon anyway, will be good when the F1 re-starts!

F

Fax,

You're lucky to have your commentators, including Steve Matchett (the ex-Benetton mechanic who has written a few good books on the subject of F1) whilst we put up with James Allen.  At least Brundle offsets the irritating git to an extent   

Good luck with returning to watching the fray of F1.  It's my opportunity on the race days to watch it whilst doing the ironing (which get major brownie points with the missus and gives me exclusive rights to the telly for a couple of hours).  If it's a boring race, the ironing is done very well and if its exciting then the quality of ironed finish is cr*p.           

For me, Le Mans had always been as much about the getting there, meeting up with old friends, relaxing away from home, as it is about the racing.  On the years where more is happening in the race, more attention is paid to it, and when less, then more is paid to the enjoyment of other things.....

Catch fencing - yes there's stacks of it at Le Mans in all the official places to spectate, which started growing from the mid-90's onwards, as much to keep crowds from invading the track at the end of race before all the cars had finished, as a safety thing, although of course Le Mans always has the spectre of '55 hanging over.  What amazes me with the the circuits in the States, a somewhat more litigious arena than over here, you have so little of it, you lucky sods.

MG Mark

Fax,

Having been an out-and-out F1 bore in the past (70s and 80s) I feel deeply sceptical about the current state of the 'sport' BUT I always give it a try at the start of each season...

Look forward to reading the rant.  I know you and I don't always see eye to eye, but I suspect we will on this.

Oldtimer, I'm in the same boat, it was the be all & end all for me in the seventies & eighties.  I may be beating a dead horse trying to follow it again, but as I'm determined to at least give it a try.  Stay tuned for the meltdown the first time I see a bunch of celebrity posers prancing around on the grid.
Fax

Will be surprised if we have to wait as long as the second race for that...  ;D

Good to see you oldies coming back to the fold  :P

With the sad departure of the Best Driver Ever (put the guns down please) I shall hereby be yelling for Davidson. And Ferrari of course. Although I still can't 100% say I like Kimi, but when he's clocked up a few wins I might change my mind.

Check out the testing report from Jerez yesterday:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=38287

 ;D

Kimi Raikonnen (is that how you spell it), IMHO is responsible for one of the two greatest quotes on live TV.

At Schumachers final grand prix in Brazil, Pele was honouring the man by awarding him some bit of junk and all the other drivers were at the presentation at the front of the grid, except Kimi.

When Martin Brundle caught up with Kimi and asked him why he wasn't at the presentation.

Kimi's answer " I was having a sh*t"  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpeMXVyhtEY

What's the other great quote?

Have you ever seen the interview with Slash from Guns N Roses on live squeeky clean Saturday morning show CD:UK.

Unfortunately no clip exists so I'm told but I saw it live and it was hilarious.

The report in the NME can be found here.

http://www.nme.com/news/slash/5535

It wasn't the swearing that was funny but the look on Cat Deeleys face when he started to recall his sexual exploits live to the nation.

Bird, with all due respect, the departure of Schumacher is one of the reasons I'm giving it another try.  I won't miss that swerving at other drivers, or jumping around on the podium like a baboon for one second.
Fax

At least the baboon jumping suggested there was some joy involved in winning... a wave and a half-smile is about all the others seem to give us.

Actually I think I might be with Fax on this one, his jumping around on the podium always put me in mind of a domineering baboon too.

In fact if I had to vote on a single instance of 'genuine joy' at winning a grand prix in recent history, then I think my vote would go to J Button after his only win....so far.

The eyes have it!!
  ;D

I'd vote for Eddie Jordan dancing down the pitlane after his teams 1-2 at Spa in 98

BTW I am going to the GP in Barcelona this year, but only because it is a freebie and I like the taste of free beer :P

stiil like scalextrix to me.. i only watch the starts.. the rest is snoozeville 8)

As far as the jumping around on the podium goes, I'm old school about this subject.  Act like you've won before!
The greats always accepted the spoils of victory with a smile and diginity, scatter the bubbly and have some fun.  But Schumachers act reminds me way too much of the choreographed scoring celebrations we get from the stick & ball crowd, football players (International and American) doing their look-at-me dances.  It make work in those sports, but I think racing is something different.
Fax