Club Arnage

Obviously the Nurbgring is an evocative location of many a classic race.

I was wondering, as someone who's long wanted to go to the 'Ring at some point, what folk here thought of the circuit and its history.

I remember forst seeing footage (in car I think) of Jackie Stewart doing a fast lap of the 'Green Hell' as he called it (a circuit he apparently hated and feared and still does) and was pretty impressed by what the circuit was like. It seems unlike any other circuit in the world to me.

What do other people think?

I presume you mean the "Nordschleife" instead of the new Ring.
F1 racing on the old ring is before my time, can't say too much about it. Except maybe I was invited by Martijn (DfH-crewmember) for a lap last time we went to LMS there, and turned it down because I had a few to drink. Maybe I should have accepted, not going in '07 :(

Definitely the Nordschleife.

I defy anyone to look at the new ring, especially when compared to the old one, and not see how much worse it is than it's predecessor.

Hmm, the Nordschleife?  Obviously the ultimate incarnation of the racing circuit.  Maybe Hitler's lone positive contribution to mankind.  A circuit for the Gods, look through the list of winners and you don't find many duds.  Interesting that for all its fearsome reputation, comparatively few drivers have lost their lives there relative to places like Monza, Indianapolis, Le Mans, etc.
In Rob Walker's masterpeice article in the Nov. 1977 Road Track "Risk, Race Drivers & The Ring" he sums it up pretty well, Is the Ring really so dangerous, or do the drivers simply treat it with more respect?
Easy to speculate from the cheap seats.  I've seen some pretty terrifying footage riding onboard over Howden Ganley's shoulder while lapping the Ring in Frank Williams Marlboro Iso.  Still some of the most thrilling in car stuff I've ever seen.
Fax

Where, Fax, where?

Termie, It's included in the old Brunswick combined 1972/73 season review, both season's covered in about twenty five minutes each.  The video from Ganley in the '73 Iso, the voice over is done by JYS.  The Brunswick videos were originally Marlboro promo films, hence the selection of car & pilot.
Fax

For all that the guy is an accepted first rate (OK maybe second rate) plonker, the in-car (and that van too) footage of Clarkson trying his damndest was a bit impressive too.

It certainly got me interested and as Mark can testify I aint no kind of race car driver, but the 'Ring? Oh I could seriously like to "do" that...

yes!

The Nordschleife was build from 1925 until 1927. The first race was held on the 18th June 1927. So, nothing to do with the Nazis.

Indeed. That was the Deutschlandring, near Dresden. A six mile track which  was finished in April 1939, but was never used for the obvious reason (the Germans got a little busy afterwards ;))


Oh dear, Anorack alert! :o


;D

I stand corrected, I knew that it was built to help relieve unempolyment and economic depression in the Eifel region, mistakenly thought the jackbooted chaps were in charge at the time.  Therefore, Hitler made no positive contribution to mankind.
Fax

Well, he did give the go-ahead for the German Autobahn, the only decent stretch of motorway in Europe without speed restrictions...

Paddy, if I'm not wrong here (hgb, please correct me) one of the first bits of autobahn formed the long 'there and back' straight of the AVUS test and race track.
Each end had a long sweeping bend (one was steeply banked) to route the cars back the other way on the straight.

http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/Europe/Germany/avus21-36.html

http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/avus.html

(http://members.a1.net/wabweb/history/images/avus_nordkurve.jpg)

Yep, Avus was formed by stretches of Autobahn.  Actually hosted the German GP once (in 1959) but was so universally disliked by the drivers it never went back.
The Auto Union and Mercedes teams did some impressive land speed record running on the Frankfurt Autobahn in in the pre-war days, unfortunately the great Bernd Rosemeyer lost his life in one of these attempts.
Fax

The German GP of 1959 was won by Tony Brooks driving a Ferrari.

Unfortunately it was marred by the dreadful death of Jean Behra in a supporting sportscar race. During the race, Hans Herrman's BRP more or less destroyed itself when its brakes failed.

And the banked bend was the North Bend. The South Bend was never banked.

One possible reason for the drivers disliking the Avus circuit was the two long straights being so close together. With little or nothing to seperate one straight from another and closing speeds of up to 300 mph it isn't hard to see why drivers disliked the circuit so much.

Wasn't the banked corner made out of wood - it didn't last.

I must find a picture of the " Avus Mercedes" a streamliner from the 30s - heres one in bronze
(http://www.gambleart.com/jeffweb/images/tif0019.jpg)

I think the banking was actually paved with bricks, which made it slick as snot when wet.  By all accounts Behra was just trying too hard on the damp surface, went over the banking and hit a flag post.  They eventually tore it down for one reason or another.  I don't think it was ever remembered with much fondness.
Fax

AVUS means "Automobil-Verkehrs- und Übungsstraße" which is a very long term for "test track". The building with the round tower in Steve's picture is still there. It hosts a hotel today. The bend was destroyed in the late sixties (I think) after some fatal accidents in the fifties. I was there some years ago while visiting my brother in Berlin. It's a quite disappointing site nowadays. If I remember it correctly the last mayor races (DTM) were held on the AVUS in 1980s. They stopped racing there after some hefty accidents, e.g. Dieter Quester crossing the finish line on the roof and one accident at the start of a race which finished off the whole field.

Have a look at this

http://sudschleife.8200rpm.com/index.html

I thought it was very interesting story about the forgotten part of the Nürburgring.

For anyone interested in 'lost' circuits, I would highly recommend "Autodrome, The Lost Race Circuits of Europe".

Circuits include the Sudschleife and AVUS, plus the banked circuits of Brooklands, Montlhery and Monza.

Review extract "Nine of Europe's greatest lost racetracks; AVUS, Masaykring, Nurburgring Sudschleife, Brooklands, Crystal Palace, Keimola, Montlhery, Monza and Reims are both remembered in their prime, and revisited today as crumbling temples of speed.
Featuring glorious period images and the breathtaking contemporary photography of Gavin D. Ireland, this is one of the most atmospheric books I have ever read"

Put it on your Christmas list - an excellent book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Autodrome-Lost-Race-Circuits-Europe/dp/1904788319/sr=11-1/qid=1163584350/ref=sr_11_1/202-6491423-6903030

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/1904788319.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V63349476_.jpg)

Going back to the first post... If you haven't been to the 'ring then it is certainly well worth the trip.

I've been a few times and the feeling of driving around it is amazing. The place can be quite terrifying though.... but that is probably what draws so many people in!

It really is as simple as finding out when the public days are, drive there, buy a ticket and you are on circuit.

The place has its obvious dangers, but a trip can be done without any problems, if you keep things sensible.

I'm hopeing to get back there next year..

One of the best sites I've found, which tells you everything you need to know is;

http://nurburgring.org.uk

Very interesting - I didn't even know there was a sudschliefe!   

I can remember the AVUS in the late 70's/early 80s from visits there and although then quite a shadow of its former self, with straights part of normal roads, it was still fairly impressive. 

Another "ring" track I remember (and drove v. quickly quite a few times as did many red-blooded Servicemen in British Forces Germany at the time) was the Wegberg Ring near Monchengladbach which was used for local racing post-war and forms the normal road around Wegberg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenzlandring

MG Mark