Club Arnage

Check this out:-

http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/061019102459.shtml

yuck :-\

If that is the case I think I will have to sell my Audi... and my wife's...

>Martini...

Fantastic, all the more reason to go, a fully fledged racing driver, lets hope it all comes together.

If he wrecks his own R10 and the one in first/second place in an attempt to push his competition off and win Le Mans, why not give him a go. But unfortunately Audi is bringing more then two next year, aren't they?

To me it's more the whole hype around the man, it just doesn't suit Le Mans! >:(

I welcome it if it does happen.  it will bring a higher profile to the sport which means more money/tv coverage to follow.  And then more money maybe plowed back into the sport and circuits themselves.

btw M Schumacher has raced at Le mans before, for Mercedes in the late 80's as part of their junior squad.

Yes, and then the LM series will end up like F1, only interested in the big Corporate money with the inevitable consquence of distancing it from the fans just like F1.

Ian I understand your sentiment but I don't think it will come to that.  If the German one does get a Le Mans drive I suspect it will be a one off.  I can't really see him, or any other ex-F1 prima donna (rather than simply ex-F1 drivers) staying in Sportscars for the long term.

Personally, having seen Herr S race at La Sarthe in the Mercedes Junor team I would be absolutely thrilled to see him race there again.  Love him or loathe him you can't deny (if you were lucky enough to be there to see it) his pace at Le Mans was fantastic.

One year of 'full media frenzy' at Le Mans would be a good thing in my opinion.

Yup have to agree.. even though I dont like the dude.. he was very quick at le mans.. like panzers through france in 1940 ;)

Not sure that a sport where he has to rely on and respect his fellow drivers in the car will suit him.  Having been to the DTM meeting at the weekend, think it would be more to his liking.  Hope so.

When I told Mr Termite this news he just roared with laughter - think that was a sensible reaction on reflection - stops me feeling too depressed by the prospect.

I think Herr Ulrich must be a bit depressed after Mercedes cleaned up at the circuit Audi seem to be trying to take over. ;D ;D

Schumacher has qouted in most of this morning's papers that he will NOT be taking up audi's offer. So Martini you can keep both the cars even thought you probably were hoping for reason to change! ;D

Phew.  Can calm down again now.

...as happened with Group C racing.  This was also caused by rules, lack of sponsorship, turmoil of competing bodies and race series etc etc.  It became quite farcical with I cant quite remember which year, but only about 26 cars taking the LM grid (1992/3?)

28 cars in 1992 of which only 14 finished. Warwick, Blundell and Dalmas won but they must have felt it was a hollow victory in the circs.
Anorak off.

Doesn't rule out competing at LM, though, just driving one of those diesel thingies.  Towards the end of the year Ferrari are due to announce with Micheal his future/continuing involvement with the team, wouldn't it be marvellous for Ferrari to come back full bore with a manufacturers supported team with Schumi as either team boss or driver.  Can't wait ;D

That's not going to happen, worst luck Peter. I would love to see both of them back at LM big time.

The Merc junior team was a terrific idea, giving young guns a great opportunity rather than just employing failed F1 drivers and othe paying drivers.

I don't agree about not wanting manufacturer involvement either, it's vital in my book and we can't keep relying on Audi, much as I dislike them for their dull cars.

Sorry to be pedantic Neilsie but it was 1991. Spoonface finished 5th behind the winning Mazzie and the three Jags.

That car was bought a few years back by Michael Lauer and it raced at the Daytona historic event (as support to the Rolex) in 2001 and Lauer had a high speed blow-out in the tri-oval; caught it all on camera in a sequence of potential rear-end destroying seconds. Amazingly he held it and damage was limited to bodywork trashed by flailing rubber but made for fairly dramatic photos! If I get my act together 2nite, I'll post them here later!

 ;D

no worries..  I blame Kroneburg for destroying my memory!  :)

yeah i remember standing down by the Esses at 6am and waiting for what seemed like 5 minutes intervals for the cars to appear.  Always enjoyed the racing at the crack of Dawn (bless her little heart) but that year was sheer boredom.   At least the "fun"fair was still fun in those days!

Grumble...Couldn't care less if the guy ever races again, wouldn't walk across the street to see him.  Been over this before, the guy's won a bunch of races and titles, but with so little grace and diginity.  As far as I'm concerned he can retire back to Switzerland, grow a long beard, long fingernails, and lock himself in a room like Howard Hughes.
I don't buy into celebrity worship.  Just what we need is a F1 prima donna on the grid so his cult (I'm mean fans) can fawn all over him and chant his name in worship.
Why would Le Mans need him?  The race seems to have done just fine the past fifteen years since his last appearance.
Fax

That and he didn't seem to mind knocking other drivers out of races, or trying to knock them out when it suited him.

Hill, Villeneuve anyone?

Ban him.

J

Hang him

N

A bit over the top I think.  Just keep him away from sports cars please - don't much care how.

Welcome back john, i guess you've recovered all the teddies from the cot ??

Looking at world champions - Solberg - Jumped for joy at the WRC a few years back. Rossi - amazing with bikes and a true gent.

Schmi - Nonce, no charisma - and that's the problem why Brits usually don't like him

isn't it sad we seem to judging racing drivers on their personalities and charisma?  Rather than actual ability, i know its an old subject and well beaten about, I'm at the end of a rather long queue when it comes to the car racing knowledge, so who do you think then out of the current bunch, irrespective of series, has the necessary attributes to fulfill your ideal racing driver.

Any of them that race, cleanly and fairly with a degree of sportsmanship.

I could not give a toss if they smile or not, love their wives or boyfriends, drive for Ferrari or McLaren.

I don't care if they are Brits, Japs, Indian or whatever, rich or poor, fat or thin, short or tall, Good drvers or tail end charlies with more money than sense. To me its not important.

The ones I can't stand are the whingers and cheats that sometimes come along. Sadly a couple of the fastest drivers in recent years have fallen into that camp IMHO.

I'm completely with Nordic, couldn't care less if the guy has the charisma of a rocking chair or Cary Grant.  It's the on track behavior that I judge a driver on.  As has been brought up many times before, many of the things that motor racing people found so reprehensible about a certain deceased Brazilian, they also see in Schumacher.
Mainly being the willingness to resort to foul play, thuggery, or dirty tactics when a situation is not in their favor.  Swerving at, and deliberately colliding with opponents, that childish stunt at Monaco this year, etc.
You'll hear a bunch of nonsense that it shows how "driven or motivated he is" which is a complete pile of crap, what it shows is a complete lack of character, ethics and sense of sportsmanship.  This is what fans want to see at Le Mans?
Over here we have a guy playing Baseball who falls almost exactly into the same category as Schumamcher, his name is Barry Bonds, he's closing in on one of the most hallowed records in all of American sports and has had the talent to be arguably the greatest to have ever played. But he's also one of the most despised figures in sports over here because of his well documented use of growth steriods to increase muscle mass and stamina, in other words, his willingness to cheat to win.
Fax

Don't give a toss about F1 drivers really but if you were to push my arm a long way up my back, I'd say I watch Nick Heidfeld with more enthusiasm than some.  Keeps his gob shut, doesn't bad-mouth his team mates, apparently (although this is heresay) gives good feedback on the car, goes in for demon starts, drives a crap car pretty well, can overtake legitimately at Monaco.  But every time I pay any attention to how he's driving I just find myself saying "get yourself a drive in a proper car, Nick." 

Rubens Barrichello always struck me as being a pretty decent fella.

And he certainly held on to his dignity when he was pulled over in the Austrian GP to make way for a certain Mr Schumacher to win.

Somehow, I doubt Schumacher would have been as reasonable about it if it were the other way round.

So what's all this c**p about "Schumi has no personality", tell me someone who gets to the top of any sport these days who does not play the corporate game.  All this 'flawed genius' rubbish gets my goat.  If Button or Coulthard had even a drop of MS's will to win they could have done it.  Unfortunately we just want to create jolly good sorts who are always at the wrong end of the field. 
Remember that nice guys finish last.  What do you want in a driver, a winner or a personality?  You rarely get both.

(Teddies returned to pram)

from The Old Git

Good point. Winner everytime as long as his bad manners don't show up on the circuit.
However, I have had the good fortune to have had a very brief word one or two guys who are both good drivers and top blokes : Mcnish, Tommy Erdos, Soyul Ayari.  Do you see the common denominator here?

I'm embarrassed, not to say actually ashamed of myself to admit I actually jumped up and down cheering the shoeperson yesterday. Christ, if every race was like that F1 would be worth watching again. Perhaps it's because we've been starved of good track action for so long but it was great to see nonetheless.

Shoemaker showed why he is one of the best drivers ever with iron determination and unbelievable car control, shades of the Gilles Villeneuves quote -"Stick another f**k*ng wheel on it and send me out again". Well they did, and he got from last place to fourth. It speaks volumes that Button was quite happy to sit behind Alonso for the last few laps and settled for third place, rather than stick his neck out and risk overtaking a car which would have simply gotten out of his way. It proves that Button doesn't have a burning hunger for points. Schumacher was a liar, a cheat and a scoundrel, it's a shame he had to resort to crap like that with all that natural talent.

with regard to Button and Rubino, one of the issues may have been making sure their engines lasted because of next years FIA F1 rule changes?

I believe Honda have been working on engine development up and till the last possible moment before submitting there Brasil spec engine and is frozen for the next three years.  All the other teams have submitted their engines, so no probs with them.

This was mentioned by Martin Brundle when doing commentary for ITV.

All the other teams had handed in their engines but Honda hadn't, so they were making sure they lasted until the end of the race.

And there's no denying that Schumacher, as much as I dislike him, is an immensely talented driver. It was his willingness to pull strokes that has, IMHO, tarnished his legacy.

AND, on itv tonite is a special devoted to the life and times of Comte Schumacher, unfortunately, I have a previous engagement at the local church hall, if anyone watches it can you let us know if it is worth watching.

One place to be later on this month is the annual Ferrari bash

With the close of the F1 season almost upon us, it’s time to look forward once more to Ferrari’s end of year World Finals. This year the venue will be Monza and the dates to join us there are the 27th to the 29th of October.

Book your Hospitality passes on-line now!

Also new on the site is an article on the 250 GT Pinin Farina produced from 1958, and information on dealers now selling a range of accessories from the Ferrari Store selection. 
 

Don't forget to put it on the calendar, FS!

It was a great piece of driving.

But for me Raikkenon stole the show when Brundle interviewed him at the start/finish, before the race. Brundle had been saying that the drivers would all be up the front at a special presentation to Schuey by Pele. Then he found Kimi leaning on the wall by his car. "Kimi, why aren't you up there?". "I was having a sh*t" says Kimi.

Not sure if it was intended as offensive to Mikey but I took it that way.

Classic TV.

If you don't mind me saying so, that bollocks.

They have been plenty of 'nice guys' as you put it who have won and played the corporate game without the need to push rivals off the track, stop in the middle of the track etc.

As Andy Zarse points out, if Shumacher had driven as cleanly and well as yesterday then we would all have been rooting for him.
I understand that he regrets some of the stunts he has pulled and given the chance would do them diffentally.

In short the answer to your question is 'no'.

I am well aware that there are two camps to the (love him or loathe him) Schumi argument but I would be surprised if anybody who watched the programme was anything other than very dissapointed.

It is undeniable that the man has more than a little skill behind the wheel of a racing car (yes, sometimes he abused it by taking out opponents blah, blah) but other than the manouevres from this weekend's race - and some old karting home-movies - there was hardly any footage at all of him overtaking anybody.  I am sure though the 'loathe him' camp will have enjoyed very much the frequent pictures of his crashes...

The whole programme had the feel of one that had been thrown together in a couple of hours.  It would have been far better to wait more than 24 hours after his retirment to put together a considered view of his life and career than this half baked effort. 2/10

Whatever you say or think, when all the angst and hype has died down, in many years to come you will tell your grandchildren that you saw Michael Schumacher race. 

I was not a great fan of Spoonface, but as you say it will be something to tell the grandchildren about.

I was at Stowe corner in 99 when he speared the tyrewall and broke his leg.
In the drivers parade and when he was interviewed on Silverstone TV before the race he was booed by a large majority of the crowd. This was undoubtidly due to the Hill and Villeneuve incidents, various other claims of cheating and the fact that he was an arrogant German Bastard.

 The moment he hit the tyres he ceased to be Schumi the villain and became a driver who could so easily have been killed.

Contrary to what Murray Walker said when I watched the replay later, there was not an "Almighty Cheer" when he went off, there was a gasp and then a sureal silence as we all feared the worse. Even people who had yelled abuse at him in the drivers's parade and the formation lap were looking very worried and were hoping he was OK. When he was eventually carried away on a stretcher and he waved to let everyone know that he was alive and conscious the same people that had booed him, then gave him an "Almighty Cheer"

Love him or hate him, cheat or, I was going to say Angel, but no, you have to admire what he has achieved and how he helped put Ferrari back on winning ways. We all love motor racing or we wouldn't be on this forum and I know it is F1, but,  come on credit where it's due.

yup.. will do.. but at the greatest race in the world.. le mans!! ;)

I am one of those fortunate enough to able able to say 'yes - at the greatest race'.  He was sensational in the Junior Mercedes team...

Yep saw him race at Le Mans in the C11, he was pretty handy setting the fastest lap and being the first and only merc to finish. I also saw him at Silverstone in 91 where he came home 2nd in the Mercedes-Benz C291.

My dad also reminds me that the first time we saw him race was at the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festivial some time in the 80's.

Didn't he stuff the car into the guard rail under the Dunlop bridge, during the race - or did I just dream that?

At last the only stuffing the sausagemunching gruppenfurher will be doing now will be with bratwusrt and sauerkraut unless he's chomping on Bernie withered chipolata. 
He 's a complete cheating c**t.

 :laugh:

Rusty, I'm sure I detected a slightly negative vibe there man. ;D ;D ;D

Not that the bagacrud doesn't deserve some.


Still I wish I was even slightly as good at smashing other people outadawayyyy!

I really do not want to pay to watch him at LM next year, what a turn off!

 :(

bill

When I went to the USGP this year, one of my mates I was with was so giddy afterwards, said he always wanted to be able to say he saw Michael Schumacher win a GP in the flesh.  I had to bite my tongue a bit and say I was happy for him.  Honestly, I'm thrilled to be able to say I saw guys like Alain Prost, Jackie Stewart, Gilles Villeneuve, Ronnie Peterson, Niki Lauda, Emerson Fittipaldi, etc. race in person.
Having seen Senna race still means nothing to me and I suspect I'll always feel the same Schumacher.  Just can't anything about them to make me feel warm & fuzzy.  As I said before, winning a boatload of races and titles means nothing to me, its all about the way they were won.
Fax

I think I am in agreement with some others on this thread. It never fails to amaze me that 60 thousand plus spectators will travel from the UK alone to Le Mans every June un yet the media give it scant coverage at best. Even in 1988 when the Jags were up for it the BBC couldn't be bothered to show any of the race even though they had announced that they intended to do so. And for years any newspaper coverage has been either none existent or cr+p. I will (God willing) be going next June whether Mr Cobbler bothers to turn up or not. If he does, I expect that his appearance would galvanise the UK media at least to commit a few column inches to the world’s greatest motor race - which surely is not a bad thing. :D

/me does a little wee

I'm there in a heartbeat.

You oldies don't know a good driver when you see one

 :P  ;D

Eh?  Are you suggesting that us oldies do not recgnise Herr S to be a good driver?  Not me!

Genius, some say, is only bestowed on the flawed.  Hhhhmmm maybe, maybe not, but it does seem that most are flawed.  I can recognise him as a driving genius (base on his innate driving ability - surely even Fax must agree that the German one can handle a racing car rather better than most  ;D), at the same time as recognising and accepting the undoubted flaws in his character.

We could argue until the cows come home about who is/is not a genius in their chosen fields but I bet the majority of those named will have some fairly serious character flaw somewhere (John Lennon - genius, George Best - Genius, Picasso - Genius, Margret Thatcher - just flawed!)

We could argue until the cows come home about who is/is not a genius in their chosen fields but I bet the majority of those named will have some fairly serious character flaw somewhere (John Lennon - genius, George Best - Genius, Picasso - Genius, Margret Thatcher - just flawed!)



I struggle with this I'm afraid and I tend to get a bit grumpy on this type of subject. I don't think he is even close to 'Genius' he is/was a racing driver and that is it. Sure he was better at it than most his contemporaries and better too than many before him but that was about the long and the short of it. Give the same set of circumstances to someone else with a similar background, similar drive, similar parental ambitions and you would get pretty much the same thing again......... sorry he’s a bloke that can drive quick, that is it. ;)

No.  It's just that we're old enough to have seen some truly great drivers.   You're just jealous.

Hence the inclusion of the words 'chosen field' to try and avoid such grumpiness and endless arguments  ;D