Title: Why can't Audi be like Porsche?
Post by: paultarsey on August 18, 2006, 03:43:07 pm
Back in the 'Good Old Days' of Group C racing the Porsche 956 and latterly 962 were the class of the field (as a new boy I am not sure if I can say Dogs Bollocks... ooops I have).
However anyone with a few thousand quid to spare could go to Weissach and buy a 962 off the shelf and run it themselves. Sure, this brought about some very amateur drivers/teams but the depth was fantastic. Just think of the very professional Brun, Joest and GTI Engineering cars.
My question is; wouldn't it be fab if Audi were to sell (no strings attached) the R10 to private teams to run against each other? I know we have seen Champion, AudiSport UK and Team Goh but, lets face it, these were very much quasi-works entries and were controlled largely from Audi HQ in Ingolstadt. What I am talking about is REAL privateers running cars which are capable of occassionally beating the works teams and even winning races.
Just a thought .....
The Old Git
However anyone with a few thousand quid to spare could go to Weissach and buy a 962 off the shelf and run it themselves. Sure, this brought about some very amateur drivers/teams but the depth was fantastic. Just think of the very professional Brun, Joest and GTI Engineering cars.
My question is; wouldn't it be fab if Audi were to sell (no strings attached) the R10 to private teams to run against each other? I know we have seen Champion, AudiSport UK and Team Goh but, lets face it, these were very much quasi-works entries and were controlled largely from Audi HQ in Ingolstadt. What I am talking about is REAL privateers running cars which are capable of occassionally beating the works teams and even winning races.
Just a thought .....
The Old Git
Title: Re: Why can't Audi be like Porsche?
Post by: Nordic on August 18, 2006, 06:08:55 pm
Very good question and to my mind Audi, and in fact anyone that wants to compete should be obliged to offer for sale a car of the same type used by the works team at a capped price.
However I am sure Audi would tell you that the reason the cars are not sold to race teams (there are quite a few R8's in collections and at leat one race's in historics in the US i believe) is due to the complex nature of the car and the cost. I think the real reason is more to do with control.
There was a glimer of hope when Arena run the Gulf R8 and it looked then like a few others may be sold but it never happened. Goh where pretty independent I understand, but the others Velquox, Champion & Joest are all pretty much guided by HQ.
If I remember correctly when you brought your 956 it was sold much like any road car complete with a set of keys, however Porsche where pretty much alone in offering customer cars then in C1.
Only a couple of TWR Jags where ever run by anyone but TWR, most Nissans & Toyotas where run by either the works or semi works outfits. I don't think Sauber sold any merc's to anyone but Del Bello and those where normally well past they sell by date.
Lancia where the only team offer a package, and given the choice between a 956 or LC2 most went Germany.
Hopefully Porsche will be true to there word and some Spyders will be seen in privateer hands next season. Now that Porsche have a major stake in VAG hopefully some of that thought process will rub of and some R10's will be sold.
However I am sure Audi would tell you that the reason the cars are not sold to race teams (there are quite a few R8's in collections and at leat one race's in historics in the US i believe) is due to the complex nature of the car and the cost. I think the real reason is more to do with control.
There was a glimer of hope when Arena run the Gulf R8 and it looked then like a few others may be sold but it never happened. Goh where pretty independent I understand, but the others Velquox, Champion & Joest are all pretty much guided by HQ.
If I remember correctly when you brought your 956 it was sold much like any road car complete with a set of keys, however Porsche where pretty much alone in offering customer cars then in C1.
Only a couple of TWR Jags where ever run by anyone but TWR, most Nissans & Toyotas where run by either the works or semi works outfits. I don't think Sauber sold any merc's to anyone but Del Bello and those where normally well past they sell by date.
Lancia where the only team offer a package, and given the choice between a 956 or LC2 most went Germany.
Hopefully Porsche will be true to there word and some Spyders will be seen in privateer hands next season. Now that Porsche have a major stake in VAG hopefully some of that thought process will rub of and some R10's will be sold.
Title: Re: Why can't Audi be like Porsche?
Post by: Matt Harper on August 18, 2006, 06:34:07 pm
So, Champion owned their R8, but Audi ran it - is that right?
I know you always used to see, very stern looking Tuetonic types with Audi logos on their shirts in the pit box, - and rumour has it that Champion were not permitted to even start the thing without some influence from Ingoldstadt. I didn't know they had that much control. Funny, because Champion Audi had the car in their Pompono Beach showroom with a price sticker on it - and they even tried to flog it on eB*y.
I know you always used to see, very stern looking Tuetonic types with Audi logos on their shirts in the pit box, - and rumour has it that Champion were not permitted to even start the thing without some influence from Ingoldstadt. I didn't know they had that much control. Funny, because Champion Audi had the car in their Pompono Beach showroom with a price sticker on it - and they even tried to flog it on eB*y.
Title: Re: Why can't Audi be like Porsche?
Post by: Nordic on August 18, 2006, 07:05:51 pm
No your right Champion did (do) own there R8's.
Audi UK owned at least one as well, (leased to ORECA last year). Sam Li of Veloqux had one that was paired with the Audi UK on in his team a few years back and team Goh own there's.
But without the right programs in the brain the car is going nowhere. Audi kept those and supplied them complete with tech's to 'help' run the cars.
The same is true I have heard of the Bentleys that where sold to collectors on the understanding that they would never race them. To be sure the cars had some electric's parts taken out.
Audi UK owned at least one as well, (leased to ORECA last year). Sam Li of Veloqux had one that was paired with the Audi UK on in his team a few years back and team Goh own there's.
But without the right programs in the brain the car is going nowhere. Audi kept those and supplied them complete with tech's to 'help' run the cars.
The same is true I have heard of the Bentleys that where sold to collectors on the understanding that they would never race them. To be sure the cars had some electric's parts taken out.
