Club Arnage

Just a note to answer some of the points raised regarding Radio Le Mans 2006.

First I'm sorry that some of you here find so much to complain about. I have looked at all of the posts here and amongst the unhelpful 'slagging off' there are some fair points which I have noted and will rectify for next year. None of us do Radio Le Mans for personal gratification or for gain - and we certainly don't think we are perfect.

However I am quite taken aback by the vitriol of some of the comments - and whilst I understand that "you can't please all of the people...Blah blah" I feel that some of the comments are just plain unkind.  The fact that the thread here is so unrepresentative of the rest of the posts on this and other fora/chatrooms leaves a sour taste and makes me wonder if some of the posters here have  ulterior motives for their comments.

If you will allow I feel a certain amount of explanation is due.

After last year's race the then rightsholder for the service decided that it was no longer commercially viable and we were left with the prospect of not having a Radio Le Mans for 2006. Thanks to the hard work of all the regular RLM team we have managed to secure the rights from the ACO until 2010. This involved some real soul searching from us as, as one of the posters mentioned, putting RLM together is a) not the work of a moment and b) a considerable expense most of which needs to be paid upfront.

The opportunity was there for any other consortium (including anyone posting here)  to take over the rights - the simple fact was there was no-one willing to accept the risk.

If the last few years less and less resources were given to the broadcast and to those who worked on it - for our first year we decided to re-assign priorities - move the studio back to France and re-instate some of the features that the fans were telling us they missed.

Now to answer some specific points - yes we did provide the Speed TV Channel with our Audio - that was for 3 hours from 8am Sunday - this provides Radio Le Mans a platform to reach an important audience. The ACO has asked us to try and broaden the reach of the race - and this year we reached 84 countries right across the globe. During the Speed show we did pay slightly more attention to the TV pictures but still included the pit interviews and reports that our listeners say they enjoy. As for the email about F1 cars which came for a Speed TV viewer new to sportscars - what the poster neglects to mention is how I answered it... funny that.

I hope that you will agree that it's important for us to grow our sport and dismissing new listeneres/viewers will not do that.

Interstingly - given the comments on our perceived bias to those away from the track - we do get one or two comments about how we are too British and trackside audience centric. - I accept that getting the balance right is difficult - and given that we broadcast over 36 hours of track action alone during the week, then not everyone is going find every moment relevant to them.

Technically we had our best ever year - I don't accept that a single small problem with a phone link to the Nurburgring should be held up as a reflection of what our hard-working tech team achieved. We never had a single piece of equipment fail us - and whilst it seems that it's not important to some here - the Internet stream was the best quality ever and never failed, despite the huge listener numbers.

And by the way - despite the vagaries of the French/German phone systems we did get Dr Bez linked up with David Richards who out of the blue, chose that moment on Radio Le Mans to announce AM's full season commitment to the ALMS. Top news, first and free.

We did do a top ten and top three class rundown on every half hour - of course in parts of the race the top three GT1s were inside the top ten - in addition to ad hoc position rundowns during the rest of the hour.

Mistakes - Oh yes we made some - mostly by me and my basic inability to get the weather report right is one of those - sorry about that - As I said before no-one is perfect.

I also apologise for taking up so much space here however I will draw to a close now with a couple of points.

First - I accept that there people out there who simply don't like my style of broadcasting - and for whatever reason don't like me much either - c'est la vie.  I'm not here to argue that

What we we have with the Radio Le Mans team - and you can leave me out if you like - is a professional team of enthusisasts who are prepared to work their socks off to put a highly complicated, tiring broadcast together. Other than the guys and girls that were there this year there are probably only 2 or 3 other people who understand and care enough about RLM to be a part of the team. Sadly the previous management decided to dispense with Ian T some years ago - well before we were involved.

Perhaps some of the posters here feel they could do a better job - great! - we are always looking for new talent - get in touch at info@radiolemans.com - don't just sit there and point fingers - the team deserve better than that.

Second there are harsh commercial realities to face - although posters here noticed every small mistake and error - no-one pointed out that we had fewer ads this year where under previous administrations we broke at 20 past and 20 to as well as before the news. That was partly in response to the marketplace but also due to a deliberate change in policy to find alternative funding methods that would not interrupt the race coverage so much.

This was the first year of a new Radio Le Mans - not perfect - of course not - however I do find it ever so disappointing that no-one who criticised us on this forum found the time to get in contact and pass on any constructive comments. Radio Le Mans doesn't belong to me or the team - it belongs to you and the rest of the listeners, wherever they are. Those people who long for the 'Jiffy Condom' days should remind themselves that there was no overnight coverage in the early years, a radio mic that took two to carry it, no proper coverage of qualifying sessions. Oh and the Jiffy ads very nearly were the end of RLM for as they contravened so many French Radio Authority regulations.

We also have to accept that the whole sportscar world has moved on so much since 1986 - diesel victory just being part of that... in order to survive Radio Le Mans has had to develop too. If this leaves some of you behind - I'm really sorry - The ACO expects, infact demands, that Radio Le Mans provides a service for as broad an audience as sportscar racing attracts. We are charged with increasing the interest in the race and the sport - that means new blood. Many listeners don't know - or care - what happened in 1956 - they want to hear Seb Loeb the moment he gets out of the car. Interestingly that remains a mainstay of the service - take the listener where they can't go. Into the pits, next to the driver, hear his/her voice.

By the way I think that Club Arnage on Radio Le Mans is an excellent idea. I'm happy to have a representative from the site (is Dave Davies still involved?) get in touch and let me know how it would work and how it would be funded.

In the meantime I reiterate my offer to any new on air talent - info@radiolemans.com

On a personal note I do feel that I should point out that I have never referred to myself as 'The Voice of Le Mans' or similar - although it is a moniker that has been attached to me - including by the Dailysportscar forum master -  Its very kind but a source of some embarrasment to me.

Fat northern bloke is fine - I don't even take offense at some of the expletives directed toward me  on this forum - but please never NEVER call me a Geordie!


John Hindhaugh
On Behalf of Radio Le Mans 2006




This reply was in response to matters raised in this thread http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=5654.0, which has been locked in favour of keeping this one running. smokie

Woo hoo.. we got a celeb!  ;D

Well, I like Radio LM -  I wouldnt have a clue what is going on without you - but then I am also not very knowledgable about motor racing stuff - and not very inclined to moan about the good ole days either.

I especially love the last bits after the end of the race when everyone is tired n emotional and talking about next year etc.  Reminds me a bit of the last day of the summer term at school when the holidays seemed like forever .....

My only small gripe might be that as a Saleen supporter (to slightly understate the case)  could RLM have a special Saleen mention, since it doesnt often feature in top 10 overall or top 3 in class?   :-\

Anyway welcome to CA Hindy - bearing in mind the number of CA members, I am sure the percentage actually bitching is pretty insignificant. 

Fran

Here here Fran. I havnt read the thread and frankly I'm not interested but there were 20 folk in our group and every single one was listening to the Radio LM broadcasts. Personally, as one who does not have a LM history going back beyond 1998 I think that the service is fantastic and who can forget the Hindy comment a few years ago when the Morgan was racing and he suggested that someone was out looking for some wood glue to get the car back into the race. Class stuff with a wicked North Eastern sense of humour. Who ever said that the broadcast was meant to be 100% perfect, correct politically or otherwise, unbiased, lacking in humour, free of mistakes etc etc. Hell its free and informative and reaches the majority.

Long may it continue Hindy and look forward to your dulcet tones on Motors TV as we progress further through the year.

Agreement here too!

I haven't read the slagging off posts as that sort of stuff doesn't interest me either.

Hindy and the boys (and girls!) do a fab job and anyone who was at LM 1986 or earlier will remember what a trial it was trying to keep up with things with the then hourly updates on the half hour via the PA which was about as much use as a bottle of chips when cars were going past! 1987 onwards has been fab .... so stop banging on! Anyone would think we actually pay for this!!!

So there, nyah!

 ;D

I've e-mailed Hindy at radio le mans, as i think weve let ourselves down.

The more publicity this forum gets , the more members and the better it will be.

If you are at odds with this, read my reply on the other Radio LM thread.

Hindy, sorry I called you the voice of le Mans - probably did pick this up from Daily Sports Car.  But I do take issue with the fact that nobody contacted you direct.  I did in fact send an e-mail to radio Le Mans having read some of the other comments on this site, suggesting that if you look beyond some of the gripey stuff, there are some points which you might take on board for future years.

Glad you looked at them anyway, and hope that somewhere in the middle, you might find a bit of common ground.  We don't all just whinge for the sake of it, believe me.  I still think the hourly updates could be a bit more comprehensive.  Otherwise, as I commented here, I don't much mind how you spend your time and I do like the reports from the pit lane.

At the end of the day, I think most of us would miss RLM if it weren't there.

Lets face it, how many of us would put our finger into a mystery liquid and taste it just to find out what was wrong with a car?!!!

How's that for dedication...

That was great radio, and is part of what RLM is all about. I think most people see it as a Le Mans tradition, long may it continue.

Welcome to the site Hindy, we hope you stick around a little bit :)

Hello Hindy, thanks for dropping in with a detailed response to the thread.

Forums are renowned for giving everyone the opportunity to air their views, and as a recent post here on CA said, everyone has an opinion about everything these days. While some people mean to write what they write, others post without checking whether their post may be mis-interpreted, and/or unnecessarily harsh or offensive. As a moderator here I read most posts but do not have time to decide whether the tone is appropriate - but obviously offensive or provocative posts will generally be "managed" in some way.

Personally I hadn't listened to RLM much over the past couple of years but listened a fair bit this year, and enjoyed it. I also listened to the first half commentary on the England match, which was about as close as I wanted to be to the footy, but was disappointed that you gave a fairly straight commentary, unlike the hilarious one some years back - Euros 2004 maybe?

Dave Davies still owns Club Arnage and occassionally pops into the forums. The CA forums probably contain the highest number of active members and are active all year round, not just on the run up to the race.

Lastly, welcome to Club Arnage forums and come back soon...  :)

I like many wouldn't have much of a clue what was happening without RLM. From the moment we arrive near enough to the circuit to get reception to the time we leave it's on in the car and on the headphones. I'm just gratefull that RLM exists
 A big thanks from me and I suspect from many others on this site.

I even bought (yup, bought) better earphones so that I would be able to get RLM better on my Audi Freebie from last year.

An overall part of what the LM experience is about. Hindy, please keep it up. I echo the requests for a on the hour "everycar" report though if possible.

The workload must be staggering thank you.

 :)

Hi

I like it, saves me from getting my lazy arxxe out of my campsite seat.

Sunday afternoon stifling hot but in the shade of the gazebo with a few cool ones and RLM suits me.

Listening to it on the way home (sunday) is the worst thing, as it finishes and then you have to listen to some wacky french pop station.

Keep it up guys.

>Martini...

After 3 years at Le Mans and still condsidering myself a relative newbie, RLM is a godsend!

Plus GCSE French prepares you well enough to read and speak it.....but understand it???? ;D

RLM,

Keep up the good work guys. Your coverage is excellent and informative. Without it lots of people who wish to keep track of the race would get completley lost.

RLM do a fantastic job finding things to talk about from the Wednesday compared to James Allen who manages to talk twoddle and cock things up for 2 hrs on a Sun with a highly pro outfit like ITV! :)

I just hook up with the majority: I LIKE RADIO LE MANS! 8)

What else do expect from me, you guys have mentioned our group several times last year - and this year it only got better :)


You're doing a great job, just wish there were more updates during the race, but maybe that's because I don't listen all the time :-\

Whenever I am asked by a Le Mans virgin what they should take with them, I always include a personal radio in the list. Along with the advice that they will need it to listen to Radio Le Mans in order to find out what is actually happening on the circuit.

I have always been a fan of RLM and will continue to be so. Things will always change, which can sometimes upset people, but that is the way of life. Personally, I have always been able to get the information I wanted to know by just listening for while, it comes up sooner or later. And RLM has always been a godsend whilst lying on the banking down at Arnage as dawn starts to break.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those people who give their time to provide us with Radio Le Mans, both broadcasters and tech staff. As far as I am concerned, Le Mans would just not be the same without Radio Le Mans.

And as has already been stated several times before, if you really don't like it, then don't turn on your radio. Simple really.

Yeah, the "if you don't like it don't listen thing" is a good point but in this particular case, I think it's more a case (for me anyway) of, I quite like this but would like to change some of it/give some feedback so maybe, just maybe, it will be better next year.  That's why I've e-mailed them, that's why I post, in the hope that somebody might listen and things may change a bit.  Great that Hindy took the trouble to read this site because it proves that sometimes the comments get back to those who can do something about the perceived problems.  They are more than welcome to ignore these comments but we should still make them.  Just saying, "It's rubbish, I'll turn it off" isn't exactly constructive is it?  "It's rubbish - let's change it" is at least a step in the right direction (even if said in a bit of an ott way in some cases!).

I am sure most people enjoy listening to RLM and fully understand the commercial realty of Radio Le Mans.
There are few, if any UK stations that someone would listen to for 24 hour straight, so us the listeners are bound to get a bit stir crazy and pick up on some points and maybe blow them out of porportion

We accept and understand the need for ads and accept that the station needs to evolve to survive.

I am in the lucky postion of having heard all the broadcasts since the station started, and even dipped into my own pocket along with many others in the early 90's when things where looking bleak.

But the station does seem to have become a bit too internet based, some of the questions read on air where franky daft and the lack of a commentry during the support races was not good.

There are many many more good points than bad and Le Mans would be the poorer without it, so keep up the good work.

Without RLM I wouldn't have had a bloody clue what was going on. This was my first year, and I hope to be listening for many years to come.

Preferred the footall commentary to motson etc. could you do all the rest of the england games online?

Pity I got an Audi radio, which had 2 settings, 'silent', and 'you can only hear the commentary if the car in front of you is an Audi)

I wouldn't have one of those again, and Autoscan was a waste of time. Reception was great in the car though.

(This is a gripe about radios at le mans, not radio le mans)

I was unaware of any bashing about RLM. I look forward to their broadcast every year. I also run the broadcast to my stereo and listen to it while I work, especially enjoying qualifying (loud). I feel like I could lock my shop up at the end of the day and drive over to the circuit to enjoy the comraderie and atmosphere. The interviews and information are great and the sense of humor is absolutely priceless. My employees are not into the racing (oh well, all the more for me).

The coverage from Speed Channel in the US was as good as it could be, and they had their problems as well. I'm glad we have both of these services When you can't be at the race.

All in all, GREAT JOB to everyone at Radio Lemans!

I also have to say that all the members at CA are fantastic and help me with my sickness for the 24 Heures du Le Mans!

Sew on and sew forth,
Chris

Oh, I forgot to mentioned what I missed the most was Holly. 8)

Sew on and sew on...
Chris

Aha! So there are some people with manners and good sense out there then. Fair play to Termietermite for putting his hands up to a mistake. I completely agree with you TT that you should pass comment rather than just switch off. No-one gains if constructive criticism isn't passed on and it looks like the RLM takes this forum seriously.
Irrelevant and potentially inflammatory comment removed. smokie
I just spoke to a mate of mine who went for the first time this year. He bought a radio le mans radio from their shop and says it was great quality and he would have been lost without it.  I don't think we should be afraid of new people coming into the sportscar family; we should welcome it and accept that sometimes the newcomers are going to ask dense questions....I thought the F1 question was dumb too but at least Hindy laughed at it and didn't act like it was a serious proposition...
I'm going to listen to Globecast on sky this week and see how it sounds...can't hurt to have a listen. Anyone remember what the number is?

....hear hear bring back Holly!!! ;)

I also have not read the so called  slagging off thread as i like others cannot do without RLM, and as a participant to local radio know how much is involved and have appreciation to their efforts.

Thank you Hindy and the team.

I think I might have a crack for audition, it sounds like fun and hard work to bring a valuable sevice to 300,000 fan on site and millions elsewhere.

Umm - her hands!  ;D

First a warm welcome to you Hindy.
Second a Big Thank you to you and all the folk that have done so much to make RLM happen.

I have in some of the other posts about RLM been a bit negative.     I've not really thought about all of the angles.   Of course thats due to the fact that I go back to the beginings of RLM when the only audiance were the Brits,  non French speaking visitors to Le Sarthe.

RLM seemed in those days to be inline with the can I say "spirit of freindship" we all have at Le Mans.

With the WWW and digital radio/TV things have changed. 

In the early days RLM was manadtory listening infact you didn't need a radio cos everyone had it playing.  But I have to say that these days it's really only a "while the cars are running" listening event.

For sure I miss the way it was.  But that applies to lots of things at Le Mans, (and other places).   No matter how much I may think it, RLM doesn't happen by magic.    There is a lot to deal with to make it happen.   My guess is no one is actualy getting rich on RLM.

RLM has to focus what it's sponsors feel is right. 

To me it should be about the Race and those that go to support the Race.  To me, those that can't make the effort to go should not be part of the equation.   RLM should simply be making them find the motivation to go.  But thats just my opinion and so doesn't count for much if anything.

I think I've heard more "Gems of broadcasting" on RLM than all the other radio stations put together.

RLM you have a listener for life in me. 

Any negative comments I make are ment to be Constructive not destructive.

I hope that make sense.

Regards,
Tom.

Hi John Of RLM just to say In my opinion you do a great job buddy, Had my earphones jammed in most of the weekend and would have been lost without your station keeping me informed of what was going on whilst I was wandering about the circuit . well done and keep up the good work, hope to be able to switch you on next year !!!!!

Have to be brief here as I am in the middle of watching the Sears Point Nascar race.

Hindy,
I personally love RLM, no complaints from me, You're not the voice of Le Mans, you are indeed the voice of sports cars for me with your coverage of ALMS etc as well.

Keep up the good work, you and RLM are appreciated, we would be lost without you.

I do miss the Friday campsite tours that RLM used to do though.

Regards
Chris

I hope that you will retuirn to read the more positive comments that are in this thread!  In the other thread a number of posters did state the need for constructive criticism and of course everyone has to accept that RLM has to take the decision on what works for it, and what doesn't.

I still believe that a better hourly update is required, particularly on Sunday morning, as if one has been luck (sad?) enough to get some sleep it can be difficult to catch up.  Possibly a bi hourly full update of positions plus a brief Car xx has gone out due to accident etc?

I was very impressed with the football commentary which as a non-footballer, I thought was excellent under the circumstances.

This year the race build-up appeared to be less enthusiastic than previous years, with a lot of concentration on the later start time, although presumably next year we'll be b ack to 4pm so it won't be relevant.  Equally I didn't hear the build-up of the finish although due to the chnage of time I was already on the road by then, and struggling for coverage so might have missed it!

I noted that on occasions we were asked buy RLM radios to help fund the station.  Although I appreciate that there are commercial considerations perhaps stating that £x of price funds RLM might have helped sales.  Also how about some RLM T-Shirts or Polo Shirts?  Personally I would love to find a polo shirt on sale giving the date of the race.  I have decided i look better in a polo shirt but you can never find them with the race date on them!  Maybe I should investigate!

I do think that whilst RLM is free to air, many listeners at the circuit would be prepared to make a donation they understood how the funding of the station etc works.

I think it would be great if someone in a position of authority on Club Arnage could speak with RLM to find a way of sponsoring part of the show or getting more involved.

I seem to have arrived at the suck-up queue.
As mentioned before, I'm not a huge fan of Radio Le Mans - and I have a choice - also stated.
I do not question the logitics and dedication involved in delivering the product - I accept that advertising is necessary and that keeping the whole thing going (by that I mean dialogue) for the duration of the race week is a big undertaking.
I don't feel that many would be capable of doing an equal or better job, either.
I don't like the in-jokes, or the personal chat between the presenters that the listener (me, at least) have no part of and therefore no understanding of. I also think that if any individual chooses to put themselves in the position of broadcaster they better have the credentials and knowledge to do it with authority.
Before anyone invites me to have a go, if I think I could do better - I know I can't - and that's really the rub.
I couldn't make it to Le Mans this year and until the US TV broadcast began RLM was my only alternative - it was OK aside from the stuff I mentioned that irritated me. I don't have an 'off button' at the ALMS rounds I attend, because it's broadcast over the PA - that said Hindy's commentary at these races seems much more factual and much less vacuous than the RLM show.
In closing, I also notice a few new 'faces' have emerged on the forum, I presume as a result  of this topic. I think it's great to have more members who have an opinion and can articulate it. But also remember, this is a community that's been around a while - and a lot of us know each other personally and understand some of the idiosynchrasies (spelling ?) of our fellow posters. Wading-in on post #1 and calling the shots could also be viewed as hostile and insensitive.
Finally, on the subject of hostile and insensitive, I made some particularly offensive comments about Hindy, which I regret and apologise for. However, my opinion about the value of RLM hasn't changed.
Matt Harper    

Are you sporting for a RLM hat or something?
Stick to your guns you insenstive git and let the noobs kiss Hindy Hinie.

Well, I did send an e-mail to RLM with what I hope was  bit of constructive criticism and a few points to tidy up the "updates" next year.  Got a reply from Hindy who said he will pass on the comments to P. Trusswell.  We can only wait a year to see what happens but hopefully the point will be proved that constructive lobbying helps.  Although a good whinge often makes a good post and it keeps the debate alive.  The point about the internet is that everybody can have their say, isn't it?

Firstly, to Hindy, I thought your response was balanced, dignified and informative.

I thought the personal comments regarding individuals at RLM on the previous thread were uncalled for and disappointing. For those that have not had a chance to read the content of the original thread, I think it is worth pointing out that there were a considerable number of constructive comments that were worthy of consideration.

RLM has a unique opportunity to provide detailed information about an event that I think we all share a passion for. My feeling is that it is not providing that service as well as it could, for that matter, as well as it has in previous years.

Having read through the responses to the original thread and this one, I do notice a pattern emerging which I have to confess is very much related to my biggest concern about RLM. The issue of providing regular concise details of the race to those attending the event.

'What about the hourly updates?' I hear you cry. Great idea, wrong format. How many times have the updates been begun, and then tailed off onto other subjects resulting in a report that often last half an hour and so was out of date by the time it has been delivered?

For what it is worth, RLM would once again become invaluable, if I knew that it would provide regular, concise updates by which I mean 'car number four leads, one lap ahead of car 6 which is on the same lap a third place car number........' It don't make great radio, but it would real help to provide info to the viewing public.

I would also like to say that I do remember what it was like before RLM. And to me an important point was raised in the previous thread about how we all kept up to date by the screens positioned around the circuit that updated automatically meaning that on arrival at any viewing point you could check the latest positions. I wonder if these were phased out as a result of the introduction of RLM. There disappearance certainly coincided with the launch of the radio service. The resulting debate on the thread lead to Termietermite suggesting we lobby for the reintroduction of this service. Great idea, my email went to the ACO that same day.

I hope these comments are taken in the spirit in which they are meant and that consideration will be given to altering the format of the updates.

 :)

As the originator of the 'who needs it' thread I feel it is time for me to re-join the debate.  Connectivity at work is much better than at home so I had to wait until today...

Well done to Mr H for providing such a detailed response to the comment and criticism prompted by the original posting.  It doesn't change my opinion much though.

In the original posting I did not criticise the enthusiasm or dedication of the broadcast team - though others have.  Nor did I mention any technical troubles as these are bound to happen during live broadcasts of this length.  I did, at one point refer to RLM as cr*p.  This was a little unfair.

I do still feel though that over the years the content of the broadcast has moved towards catering for the TV/Internet audience rather than the one at trackside.

The original posting was meant to be a two-pronged criticism of both RLM and the ACO.  My main frustration with RLM, and it would appear of a number of others too, is the unreliability of the hourly updates.  Too often these are broadcast late (and are therefore out-of-date) and/or are interrupted by inconsequential pieces of information that add nothing to the spectators' understanding of the actual race.  Sometimes the update is not even returned to.  This may not be much problem for those of you content to sit around the campsites all day without getting trackside very often, but for those of us that make the effort it IS a frustration.

As my 'forum name' suggests I have been doing Le Mans for some time now (since 1978 in case you are wondering) and I kid you not it was easier in those days to keep completely up-to-date with the race order using the ACO information screens than it is now listening to RLM.  And that is my beef with the ACO.  GIVE US THE SCREENS BACK!  For those of you who accuse those of us who don't think like you of being lazy I can tell you that the direct lobbying of the ACO to have the screens put back has begun.

So, RLM if you are to continue - and I hope you do as clearly you provide a service that many people appreciate and enjoy - then if you say you are going to give an update at a particular time do so and get through it to the end without distraction.  And to the ACO - put the information screens back so that those of us who don't want to be permanently connected to earphones have an alternative source of race information.

Content and quality of updates aside I think RLM have a dedicated team that is willing to return and do the job every year without ever seeing or doing some of the things we do as they are stuck up in the studio for most of the race.
Without appearing to be sucking up, there is no doubting that Hindy is a knowledgeable and enthusiastic sportscar fan. Not only that, what about his Saturday morning commentary of the England v Belgium (I think) match in the last world cup. Bloody wonderful considering it may have been his first football commentary and the fact that he is from Sunderland and therefore can't know an awful lot about football. ;D

The fact that he posted his comments about our critisisms surely shows that he is receptive to them and will try to implement any improvements we suggest.

Lets give the guys a break. would any of us want to be in a studio for the duration when we could be out there getting pissed with friends and having a blast.

I remember the scoreboards, and I don't want them back.

I seem to have missed this topic.  This forum frequently takes the pi$$ out of people, and this thread does seem to be giving some constructive feedback.

Personally, I would like to see more frequent updates, with perhaps only one an hour giving full details.  I would also like to see some commentary on who's catching who etc.  This may be difficult if you're sat in a studio, but often Le Mans is a series of races within races.  Its more complicated than football.

One problem may be that when nothing's happening, there is the choice of waffle or silence.  If something exciting is actually happening, but you don't know, then the waffle makes the presenter look stupid.

Generally, we'd be lost without RLM, and we're grateful for the service.  A little more modulation would help, as the transmission is quiet compared to the adjacent French stations.

Just catching up on this thread, Oldtimer, just to go back to your very first post, if you left your radio in the hotel and missed the RML broadcast, how can you have any sort of informed and balanced opinion of the quality of their race coverage from RLM?
Secondly, the big screens (of which there seemed to be more of this year) still provide a regular listing of positions - but no running commentary, apart from the English PA updates, in both cases you had to be in the right place at the right time to see  / listen to them.
This was my 5th LM, and as others have stated, when we get in reception range, just to the north of LM, we know we are there, RLM is a part of LM and long may it continue.
We don’t all live in your perfect world, RLM have moved to a harsh commercial environment from what could be termed as "enthusiastic amateurs".

Clearly your "Oldtimer" screen name is a cover pseudonym, just used to have an unfair pop and maybe wind a few people up - unfortunately the CA forum is very widely read and stupid unfounded comments get more exposure than they deserve.

Easy Tiger, Oldtimer's enititled to his say. Lets not turn this interesting and so far staying on Topic debate into a slanging match.

I'm in the same boat as a lot of people and regard RLM as one of the many things that make my week. As for the hourly update, I find it suits my needs. It goes without saying a lot is happening in the race and giving the update on up to 50 cars (with perhaps 55 next year after the pit extension) would take about 15mins +, never mind what else is happening. I think that a few more better placed big screens would be the better option. And for those that think John and his crew prattle on, try listening to David Duffield commenting on a long stage in Le Tour de France. Now thats prattling (although i do enjoy it). Oh and Mr Hindhaugh, will £20 get us an 'brought to you in association with Club Arnage' item next year.

I think the problem with the Hourly Update is that if you are following one of the smaller teams (in our case our friends at Rollcentre) or a not quite on the pace Saleen then it can get quite annoying as the only way to find out what is happening to them is to get to a big screen,  which if you are not at the circuit is impossible!  and not all of us stay trackside for the whole 24 hrs to keep track of every car! Being a bit old for camping we stayed at a hotel 20 mins or so from the track and i listened for half an hour on Sunday morning but there were no updates! So maybe keep the current top 10 plus top three in each class on the half hour (or hour) and then at (say) 15 mins past the hour do the retirements, and 15 mins to the hour give an update on those that are having problems,  that way everyone knows at what time they need to be listening.

And another thankyou to Hindy for speaking up,  I think most of us wouldn't be without RLM,  it is an institution these days and I can remember the old timing screens and pre-RLM days, as well as the early days of RLM.  Maybe it's because we love RLM so much that we are quick to critisise!

I have read all the comments in this thread and the other / original thread, and would like to add my thoughts and comments.

I am not going to criticise individuals because I do not know enough about them or the actual physical running of RLM.

My only comments are:

1) the updates were often late, or interrupted and then not returned to;
2) often, watching from trackside, it was obvious there were cars on the move and this did not appear in the commentary;
3) incidents involving cars often went unreported, even though I knew it had happened;
4) the updates form the pits are good and informative;
5) the personal chat I found annoying.

Points 1), 4) and 5) I think are down to RLM directly and the team who put it together…..maybe it is something they can continue or improve on for next year.

Points 2) and 3) may have more to do with the information RLM receive, but surely they can see the timing screens and TV broadcasts. But maybe this has more to do with information from trackside itself. Is it the ACO that provides the actual track information or is it something the fans can contribute to?

This was my tenth visit to Le Mans, and in summary I would be lost without RLM, but at the same time some of the non-race content is just frustrating.

No doubt I will be listening again next year, because round at Arnage, Mulsanne, Porsche curves, etc. where there is not the large TV screens, RLM is the only way of getting the faintest idea what is unfolding.

I am surprised that the ACO does not 'contribute' more to the RLM team, in both finances and resources and support. Surely the ACO realises they need something like RLM to reach the existing fans and draw in new ones……or maybe they don't.

Good post!

OK, my thoughts and I'll admit that I haven't read much of this thread and only read the first few posts on the other thread and didn't have the time or inclination to post.

Firstly I like RLM, try going to the Spa 24 and having the first clue about what is going on.  It's virtually impossible and very frustrating.    

However, I found this year that there seemed to be a lot less commentary, I'd really like it to be more like the soundtrack to one of Hindy's ALMS commentaries.  I'm sure it's much more difficult - i'm not even sure if you get host broadcast pictures so maybe this is not possible?  

I quite like the chit-chat, but not for too long, there were times when I really wanted to know what was happening on the track not what was going on in the studio.  

There also seemed to be quite a lot of repeating of interviews but perhaps that matches the nature of the beast where people tune in and out so might have missed an interview first time round?

I didn't hear any commentary for the support races, I'm sure in previous years we've had "proper" commentary on what is on track for these races?  

There was clearly a lot of plugging for the sponsors and touting for new sponsors, at one point it seemed to be a "lets find the furthest away/most bizzare listeners and make sure we plug our geographical spread", but the harsh reality is that RLM requires funding and in their position I would be doing the same thing.   I heard many fewer requests from the campsites than I've heard in previous years and I like to hear from the punters on the ground.  

It did seem different this year and I'd like to see RLM going back to basics, more commentary, more updates, more stuff for the real race fans (I realise that these are in shorter supply at LM these days!).

Hindy's commentary is great, I'd have liked him to have more opportunity to commentate, Trussers is a walking encylopedia and is good to listen to.  

I missed Neville Hay though...... :(

We were lucky enough to be sitting next to Graham and Charles (2 of the RLM team) on the ferry coming home. Very interesting and knowlegeable chaps, quite happy to chat despite them being totally shattered.

One thing people may not realise is quite how hard they work and how underfunded they are. I can't quite believe that the ACO do not invest more in them. To have people  be suggesting such negatives is a real shame as we should be supporting and encouraging these chaps. If people have issues with certain ways things are done, RLM are friendly and approachable - indeed they want feedback to improve in coming years. Just my two penneth...

So maybe keep the current top 10 plus top three in each class on the half hour (or hour) and then at (say) 15 mins past the hour do the retirements, and 15 mins to the hour give an update on those that are having problems,  that way everyone knows at what time they need to be listening.

I think this is an excellent suggestion.

Hindy makes an excellent response, as do subsequent posters. I have to say over the years I've been logging on to CA, this thread has eventually become possibly the best thought through and argued that I can recall in a long time. Many of the points are exceptionally well put. The fact that we are having a high quality debate proves one thing; people on CA care about RLM and it's output.

Other than that, I would just pick up on a couple of areas:

In the original (locked) thread I said I though some of the earlier posts were OTT, and I still do; but IMHO I don't think they were actually "vitriolic" (to quote Hindy).

Strictly from a listener's perspective, there seemed to be quite a few technical problems this year. Whilst this is expected with OB, I can't agree with Hindy here and his alleged perfection on this score. We found the Dr Bez interview really quite embarassing and turned off! It put me in mind of the disastrous 1970's F1 TV interview that often comes up on It'll Be Alright on the Night, where there is limited satellite time, which ultimately cuts out just as they manage to get the interview started. And I'm not really interested in the online streaming aspect because I'm at the track and not in my bedroom in Dullsville, Arizona.

I agree about the lack of discipline during the Hourly Summary. Even on the most hotly debated Saturday Soccer Show, the BBC always take five minutes to have the Classified Results read out in a sober manner by Tim Gudgin. I think the same rigour should be applied by RLM.

Other than that, I say good on RLM and all it's staff. Hindy probably thinks we're all a bunch of tossers, but it's nice to see him here on CA anyhow. And as a community, I hope CA can contribute in some small way to helping RLM to future success.

In response to Ian's early posting... How would telling you that my real name is Pat help?

If you re-read the thread you will see that I did listen to RLM this year whilst in the car moving between vantage points.

At no point was I ever referring to 'big screens', I have been talking about the old ACO provided information screens.  Perhaps there are more big screens now but there have never been any down at Mulsanne, Indianapolis or Arnage as far as I know.  On the other hand there were at least three information screens along the walk from the car park to the Mulsanne viewing area.  There was a similar number in the Indianapolis/Arnage area and at the 'top' of the circuit they were positioned every 200m or so.  If you are finding them hard to imagine they were just TV monitors mounted on gantries 7 or 8 feet above the ground - did the job though.  So it was not really about being 'in the right place'.  The point is it didn't really matter where you were - up to date information was never far away.  For the PA announcements though it is true, being in the right place did matter... the point being though you could rely on them being broadcast punctually.

So enough of the remarks about 'unfounded comments'.  As a 5 times Le Mans novice I hardly think you are in a position to make such statements.

Blimey aren't we all getting personal these days.

Can we stop it now, as what with the spammers we seem to be attracting the Ban list is already getting towards two pages...

smokie da mod

OK - you are right.  I have had my say.

Thanks. Mr Rhino also please note... No reply needed. smokie

I think this has been a useful and interesting debate...lets hope those at RLM agree

I recieved a reply to the e-mail i sent to Hindy. This is it .

I have been to le mans every year since 1983 which was the last year that the screens were widely available (The small monitors that is) they were only useful if you were walking about the place (They did not come to you, you had to go to them unlike RLM)  I do not think that many people would have got up from their viewing position and walked off to a monitor just to have a look at where each car was. If I remember correctly this information was always out of date anyway as it was only updated periodically. The only other way that you could be informed was for 5 minutes before each hour when there was a brief english commentary something which is carried on to this day. However it was always difficult to hear, as it is now, with the noise from a major race going on in the background.

Le Mans would not be the same without RLM and all who listen would be less informed without it. I have had my earphones in for every race from its inception from the time I arrive to the fall of the flag on Sunday afternoon I even have them in whilst I go to sleep in my tent it drowns out the noise of the drunks who want to party all night and then sleep when the race is on.

In an earlier posting I said that I felt that RLM had gone down hill over the last few years and I have thought long and hard over that after reading Hindys comment. I feel that I have probably let the side down. What I meant to say was that I was dissapointed with the way that it has changed whilst comparing it to the early outragious years. Well folks everything changes nothing stays the same, everything can be improved but as sure as hell you cannot please all of the people all of the time and you surely miss the thing that you love once it has gone.

Radio le mans has changed the way that English speaking listeners view the race you only have to look at the faces of non earpiece  touting spectators as they wonder what you know that they dont. Priceless.


Here's to Radio Le Mans and  all its presenters, contributors  both past and present together with the long gone memories and the ones to come.

Long Live Radio Le Mans

OK, I was not able to attend this year, but prior to the event there was a thread about the possibility of having CA members text information to a gateway for use in updating the ACO (I think) website. What actually happened with this idea? Did it work?

It seems to me, that one of the major gripes from people regarding RLM, is that it either misses things totally or has out of date information. Well, surely the above idea could work equally as well for RLM as it would for updating a website.

Perhaps CA members could offer their assistance and become an army of information gatherers for RLM as well.

I think the issue with text reports is that they are too short (160 chracters) and are unofficial and therefore potentially inaccurate (ok, so can the official reports, but at least the come from a known source). The result could be a flood of confused information which RLM would have to be very carefull about using as, we the listeners, would only hear the end result and judge them by it.
Maybe some official spotters could be recruited beforehand and briefed by RLM on a report structure, i.e. location, car #, issue, marshall action etc.

 

Ok coupla bits of housekeeping. Sorry, didn't know Termietermite is a girl. Well done that lass!
Re: comment removed by moderator: Sorry and I bow to your judgement  - I'm just a newbie but some of the stuff other people were saying seemed unhelpful.
Speaking as a newbie I think I should just say how really impressed I am by the standard of debate here. OK it didn't start so well and some of your posters have rightly suggested that they might have let themselves down...but even admitting that is good stuff. But once a few people had a had a think the godd ideas and positive feedback started to flow. I have sent the link for the site to loads of people and told them to have a look. 
I think Hindy will find he gets a load more help next year!!!

Matt Harper wrote:I don't like the in-jokes, or the personal chat between the presenters that the listener (me, at least) have no part of and therefore no understanding of''

and then went on to tell the us newbies to butt out because we didn't understand the 'community'. or the private jokes. Go figure.

I won't add a smiley emoticon 'cos they are a bit girly to be honest but I am smiling as I write this. 

Gosh, I haven't been called a girl in years! Ta, delaney 64.  The more newbies the better to my mind. 
Had another couple of e-mails from John H - seems a helpful and receptive chap to me.  Roll on next year. :) - am allowed a girley smiley now.

That's not what he said at all. Leaving aside the comment about RLM as that has no relevance here, Matt was commenting on the increasing number of newbies and low posters who seem to be intent on personally attacking senior members of the forum.

We all welcome new members as that is how the forum stays alive but there are people who have been here for years and unless you know them personally you don't know how they will react to what you say.

I think what everyone is hoping for is that you will treat all members with respect and just because you happen to disagree with someone's point of view, that is no reason to start slating them or slagging them off or making snide comments.

Boys boys, boys...

Tolerance is today's buzzword.

Everyone, new and old, are entitled to their say. This is an open forum, pretty much unmoderated except to maintain the site rules, where people can discuss their views on a range of topics, hopefully usually somewhere related to sportscar racing.

As a member of quite a few forums I have always found it best to observe for a while before jumping in with both feet. That way, you understand the dynamics of the relationships, and petty "he said, she said" arguments can be avoided.

All members deserve respect from each other, but that doesn't mean that we all have to agree on everything. Unjustified or excessive personal attacks won't be tolerated from anyone, old or new.

As has been previously mentioned this thread is one of the most interesting and, especially with Hindy's contribution, meaningful threads we have had in some time. It's a shame it is being dragged off topic by squabbles.

I'm hoping that this thread will

1) serve as a lesson to encourage people re-read their posts to ensure that their contribution is suitable, accurate and not unnecessarily offensive or aggressive and

2) return to the subject in hand immediately.

I do not want to have to waste too much of my time moderating here so please note the above.

The surprising thing there is the need to pay the ACO fees!  COrrect me if I am wrong but RLM is taking the race to people that the ACO would not reach.  Equally it is proving information to the 10's of thousands of english speaking people trackside.  Without that information they would either be besieging the ACO offices for information or just not turning up!  Surely the ACO should be paying RLM to be present!

On the note of visiting the RLM website I tried that on my return from the race, and found it hard to navigate, difficult to find the competions etc.   Mind you I suppose if everyone finds it so hard I should try again!  However maybe the website should be looked at by someone with an eye to making suggestions to improve it.

I am pleased that he clarifies that none of the Directors of the rights holding company make any money from doing RLM, not because I think they shouldn't but it does show their heart is in the station and they are doing it for the love of it.  We therefore should be doing our best to help them.

Hey!  I wasn't being snide.  I HAVE read the whole of both threads and I am, as I've said before, full of admiration for the site! Back off the ticking off. Thanks Smokie for the summary. Realise I sound like a suck up now but I do agree. And I really was smiling. Honest.

On the subject of fees to ACO I remember hearing that it got so expensive that the publishers of Autosport decided they couldn't make it pay.  Although it's true that the radio station extends the reach of the event I daresay the ACO sees it as commercial exploitation of their brand - which they, not unreasonably, guard very carefully.  Well, if Haymarket couldn't sustain it then fair play to anyone who takes it on (though I'm guessing they won't have the sort of overheads a big publisher would bring to the project)  I don't think it's unusual to find that race series/major events don't fund their radio stations - touring cars doesn't even have one now does it? I think ALMS does but with the pit guys mostly being from the US now I'm thinking that they aren't even that happy about the costs.

In my (admittedly) limited experience most holders of major brands require payment for rights of any sort...and we only have to look to F1 for the prime example of that. There wasn't even proper Silverstone radio this year.

I went to the rally in Wales last year and they had radio but I think that was funded by sponsors again not by the event - is it the same people that do RLM? 

Is there radio for Classic and is it on the net or Sky this time? I seem to remember seeing an ad for it but is it Haymarket?

I think that this is a touch Murray Walker.

Some loved him, some were'nt so keen, but its only when he's gone do you realise how good he was

In an attempt (!) to offer an opinion and keep this thread on track......

Due to personal crises leading up to the event, i didn't make the race despite having tickets (thanks all the same SteveB, same for next year?!); the fact that i got sorted for tickets at a decent price from another forum member highlighted the generous, fair nature of most members and something i would applaud.

I was left being in blighty on the one weekend of the year i wanted to be somewhere about 6 hours south, and had 3 options - watch MotorsTV, listen to RLM or forget about the whole thing. Both broadcasts, IMHO, provided decent coverage the whole weekend. Whilst the TV feed was good when time was available to watch, RLM via the internet was a godsend to me. I could listen in on Quali, enter the competitions during the quali daytime shows from my desk at work, take the laptop around with me whilst doing other things at home during the race. And never ONCE did it stop working.

Someone said earlier (i forget who and frankly it doesn't matter) that they didn't give a stuff about the web feed - that maybe true for 80,000 Brits that are at the circuit, but what about every other individual in the rest of the world that does give a stuff? I think, given the budget they scraped together, the service provided (whether brodcast at the circuit, via Sky or web) was pretty damn good; i've never heard any other event manage to give such a credible performance over a 5 day broadcast.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. There are plenty of things being broadcast that aren't to my taste but i have a choice whether to listen / watch or not. It's that simple. I choose to listen to RLM, i choose to buy their t-shirts, i choose to participate. Long may they continue.

 Hopefully the constructive points made on this forum will help Club Arnage play their part in a 'better for everyone' Radio Le Mans 2007.

Eh, now please don't get me started on the subject of MW or I will get smoked (or wear out the * on my keyboard). 'Nuff said.

Nicely put Pauly - and a good reminder that it isnt always a question of "can't be arsed" for those listeners/viewers not actually attending at the circuit.

Hopefully next year you will get to see it in full glorious technicolour, surround sound and smelly-vision!  

 ;D

You only had to listen to the emails the team read out from all over the world to know that Pauly and Fran are right. I don't even think they kept telling us where their listeneres were from to sell the breadth of their coverage. I think they were a) genuinely a bit surprised and b) wanted to make the thing as inclusive as possible. I loved the idea that someone was so in love with the race that they were glued to their laptop in a sweaty bar in Singapore or somewhere in Iran. They really really wanted to be there but even though they couldn't be they used the net coverage to help them with their symptoms!!

And, yes you are right Pauly. The net never fell over. A vast improvement on previous years - that must have been expensive too. Their tech guy was apparently brilliant as well  - no soooner did my bf in the US complain about access for  macs than he got a response and it was sorted. 

I can't remember who said it but I agree that it does seem as if the new guys (who are really the old guys without haymarket) really care about getting this right. I bet reading the original thread ruined Hindy's breakfast the other day but it seems he still got some useful stuff out of it all.


Anyone know how many people listened on sky or the web ?

Hello Hindy,
Well, it's nice to get some feedback, and also nice to know you're keen to take on any constructive criticism, and let's face it if you aren't able to do that then it really would be time to pack up. I've got to say though, that everyone seems to have turned into nodding donkeys in the face of your post, - c'mon you lot, have the courage of your convictions and stick to your guns!
I'll admit that I've criticised RLM in the past, and if I could figure out how to use the search function on this site I'd refresh my memory,- It's been said many times that you don't have to listen, and I'm afraid that's exactly what I've done. From around 2000 onward I found the broadcasts disappointing and irritating, and tuned in less frequently. I haven't bothered at all this past two or three years.
Quite why I've stopped listening is really what matters, and I'd say that to start with the constant ad breaks drove me right up the wall, there's nothing more frustrating than hearing some track news breaking just to have it interrupted by some f*ckwit dribbling on about how his oil makes him go brum-brum. Round about then I'd quite happily have packed up some heavy ordnance and made the tw*t go bang-bang. I know it's a commercial enterprise, but I felt there was not a lot of commercial skill being used in attempting to find the right balance between the ads and the entertainment, let's face it, does anyone actually like listening to ads, let alone the same ones again and again? It's interesting to hear a lot of forum members moaning about the 'extended Aston Martin advert', as I say I didn't hear it myself, but it shows that blatant commercialism is never going to be popular. I reckon the way forward here is to give more thought as how to satisfy the needs of the sponsors without alienating the listening punters, and obviously any sort of funding from the ACO would take the pressure off the amount ad content.
So, there you go, no ads. Or a lot less, and more subtle.
Secondly, I think RLM has suffered from the lack of any real racing on the track over the last few years. It's no co-incidence that I stopped listening when I thought the race was a foregone conclusion anyway. It's one thing waiting with bated breath in the small hours to find out if the Mazda (Jag, Toyota, Merc, - take your pick...) has eked out a few more seconds over its rival on it's most recent lap (or how high the Merc got on it's last trip down the Mulsanne) but another to miss a round of drinks to find out how many laps ahead the Audis are. Obviously there's not much you can do about this, other than work harder at trying to find ways to keep the punters interested. Do the campsite tours still go on? I remember this was very popular, and a buzz went round the place when the RLM crew was around, the unpredictability of the 'interviews' was great stuff, and I thought it helped contribute to the community/campsite spirit a hell of a lot. But maybe the 'boozed up brits' thing is just not PC enough for the sponsors?
Thirdly, maybe RLM's getting a bit schizophrenic. In the early days its function was to inform and entertain the people at the track, something it was very good and focussed at. Nowadays (from reading these posts) it seems it doesn't know whether it's a webcast, international commentary, trackside tool or what. Now, I'm not in the media, but I'd hazard a guess that hitting the spot with such a varied audience would be well nigh impossible. Decide on a direction, and stick to it, you'll then get the audience you deserve. Good or bad.
can I now have all those presents you promised me in 2002?
H

Thats a bit harsh BigH.

It may also be that those people who are quite happy with RLM simply didnt get involved in the earlier critical thread and have now decided to put in their penn'orth for a more constructive approach.   

Likewise I havent really contributed to the moaning about poo bar before we saw it thread, the moaning about track changes thread, and no doubt many other miserable topics that I dont particularly recall at the moment!   

I think it would be fair to say  - given what we've heard - that the ACO is NEVER going to put money into this. So we are stuck with ads or sponsored sections. Actually they had fewer ads than ever this year in favour I guess of the sponosred content which seemed designed to be entertaining to at least some of the people listening - if not the more experienced among you.
As to the hybrid content...again I think that's something we all have to learn to live with. It can't be just for the fans trackside, it isn't just for the internet or sky. the deal as I underatnd it from Hindy's email is that it HAS to be all of those.  If you talk to the picturtes for the people with Speed you'll hack off the people with no pictures; if you only talk as if you were addressing people trackside you can't expect the people listening on the web to feel involved.  Covering all the bases...That's a hard job to pull off.

 >:( And whilst you're on about it, I think the price of the Grand Marnier crepes was ruinous this year. It's rampant commercialism gone mad. I remember the days when you could stuff your face with sickly orange flavoured pancakes for ten francs and still have enough change left over to get your lights knocked out in the boxing booth.  :(

Fair enough for John Hindhaugh to have his say. I’ll probably tune in next year to see which of the constructive criticisms he’s taken on board.
All I want from a trackside radio service is a regular and accurate summary of the positions of the competing cars in each class. When cars encounter problems on the circuit or in the pits I’d like some details about that as well.
That is the service that I appreciated from RLM in the past. It’s not what I experienced this year up until my radio failed and I decided not to buy another. I’m really not interested in what Sébasitien Loeb, or any other driver has to say when he gets out of his car (unless there’s a problem), any more than I want to listen to a post Grand Prix press conference.
I’m not interested in the commercial circumstances. They are for the operator to negotiate with the ACO on the one hand and potential sponsors on the other. I had no idea that John Hindhaugh and his friends were financially responsible for the show this year, and whether they showed a profit or loss is their concern, not mine.
I appreciate that RLM reaches out over the internet to an audience which is not at the track. Perhaps that audience has different needs, I don’t know.
I’m not trying to persuade anyone not to listen to RLM, I’m just sad that what was once a great service is no longer what meets my needs.

How much money do we pay for Radio Le Mans as  listeners well in case we have forgotten it is free. The cost is nil,nowt,zero it was set up to provide a free service to us the Le mans spectators at the track and has evolved into what we have today.

I could understand the bitching and negative remarks and comments if we were paying subscribers but we are not. The service is free unlike the BBC, Sky and all the other different medias. I am sure that changes will be made for next year with or without our comments.

 Maybe we should all pay a licence fee just for the Le Mans weekend then you could pay your weekend subscription or maybe not bother to listen. Then if it did not meet everyones high standards of preference we could all vote with our feet. Not going to happen but get my point?

No, I don't get your point - unless you are saying "if it's free, quality doesn't matter". Is that what you are saying 24hourman?

Like some other posts, I too missed out on the earlier thread but like the debate taking place here. Whilst comparatively new to Le Mans (been to the last 9), I too think the race would not be the same without RLM. This is not because JH has made a post, it’s because this is what I think.

Accepted it has changed over recent years as the commercial reality hits home that some one has to pay for it and I do hope that JH takes the constructive comments on board for next year.

Even with all the changes in recent years  >:( I would have no idea what is happening in the race without it. I hope it continues for many years to come.

Tony

Thank you for that valuable and well considered contribution to the debate Mr Zarse!  ::)  - I think you have been spending too much time with Young Vic Meldrew....

If you read my post  and a few of the earlier posts in this thread it will become evident what I am intimating at.

The service is "free" just as all commercial radio stations are "free".
I'm quite happy to vote with my feet. The fact that RLM is "free" doesn't oblige me to listen to it. I'll let the content decide.
So roll on next year and the changes arising from the constructive criticism  :).

Yup - I didn't have the time or the inclination to get involved in the previous thread - if that now makes me a nodding donkey then so be it!!  What is now coming across is constructive criticism, not blathering sycophancy.

Like many, I didn’t realise the RLM was up until this year, a voluntary not for profit set up run by enthusiasts, I accept it for what it is and it has been apart Le Mans for us (only 5 years - maybe after 10 or 20 years I'll get a medal??)and enjoyed it. In that respect it's was a bit like Club Arnage, RLM achieves what it does because of the efforts of a few and benefits many.

Matt, equally, just because its free doesn’t mean or one should assume its rubbish.

I went off on one at "Oldtimer", why, because a bloke who posted 9 posts, posted a subject on Club Arnage "Radio Le Mans - who needs it?" I suppose after he's had 5 copies of the CA guide to LM, in 2011, he'll post on another forum "CA guide to LM - who needs it" ***** ********

Long may RLM continue, if we can help great, if some of our suggestions dont get taken up, fine, if some choose not to listen fine, I will listen, I particuarly enjoyed the webcasts from Sebring as I know others left behind did as well. Good job.
Lets stop moaning.

Classic :D

The number of posts I have made to the CA forums I don't really think is relevant to the debate.  I chose to raise the topic on the forum because it is designed for people with an interest in and passion for Le Mans and therefore seemed a reasonable place to open the topic to a wider audience...

I suppose it is possible that in 5 years time I may make a posting entitled "CA Guide to LM - who needs it" but only if in my opinion the quality of the guide has declined to such an extent that it no longer delivers the sort of information that people want from it.  If that does happen - which seems unlikely as I read only yesterday the thread calling for volunteers to help put togther the next guide and asking what people want from it - the posting will be made to the forum itself.

The point is I do feel that there has been a general decline in the usefulness of the broadcast content of RLM for trackside fans.  For most of the years it has broadcast it has been fantastic and was for me, as it it still is for many people, an integral part of the Le Mans experience.  What I liked most about it was the fact that it seemed to be more geared towards the needs of trackside fans than it is today.

If like me people want to know as quickly as possible the very latest developments on the track then I would love still to be able to listen to RLM and feel that that is what I would get.  However it doesn't feel that way to me anymore.  Enough people, other than me, have commented on the hourly updates provided by RLM and the point of the original posting was to remind others that there is an alternative provided by the ACO.  I admit that this is a less than perfect option and that is why I, and some of the others who have been involved in this debate, have already begun to lobby the ACO to have the information screens that many years ago used to exist and I thought were really useful reinstated.  It is not my intention, nor do I think it the intention of others who have sympathy for my views, to try and have RLM banished from the airwaves.  As far as I am concerned it would be a success to have the ACO information alternative improved and do you know what that may well make me MORE inclined to listen to RLM again.

Why?  Because it then really would not matter that much whether the updates were punctual and uninterrupted because I would feel safe in the knowledge that up to the minute information was easily available elsewhere.  It would take away that "... just tell me the bl*ody race order" feeling.  On the other media that RLM broadcasts this, I guess is less of a problem, because I imagine there are other visual elements to the broadcast that provide this information while the conversational element of the broadcast continues...  Just a guess though as I have been in the fortunate position of being trackside rather than unable to attend the race in person.

As I have intimated before I have attended many Le Mans events - though I am not advocating the issuance of attendance medals Ian.  The point is that I thought my experiences of the pre-RLM days and how race information was provided to (non-French speaking) spectators may be of interest to those who have not been as fortunate as me and may also help to shape elements of the debate.  I may not have much experience of posting to the CA forums, and if that has been evident to the more experienced 'posters' I am sorry, but I am not going to pretend that I don't have much experience of the event itself.

orry, but I am not going to pretend that I don't have much experience of the event itself and that some of the things useful in the past may, once again, be useful today.

I thought we'd agreed to stop this "I've posted more than he has" stuff. It's boring and totally irrelevant.

I would just like to say, that I didn't get involved in the previous thread, the same as a few other memebers because quite simply I thought there was nothing wrong with the RLM content. 

Keep up the good work.

And for those people who are moaning about adverts, will they please get a grip of reality please. If they think any commercial venture can exist without someone contributing to the bills they must be potty. I ask, do you watch ITV, Channel 4, Five and any of the host of satelite channels. Most likely you do, nobody likes adverts but we all understand the channels would not exist if there weren't any. BBC is only advert free because YOU pay 100+ notes for the privelge.

I think this is a very interesting thread - and I'll nail my colours up straight away - I have been a Radio Le Mans listener for many years (from the start in 87 was it?).

I'd just like to make a few points on one or two of the posts and ask that no-one gets their panties in a wad - some hope there...

Big H makes the following point;

"I reckon the way forward here is to give more thought as how to satisfy the needs of the sponsors without alienating the listening punters, and obviously any sort of funding from the ACO would take the pressure off the amount ad content.
So, there you go, no ads. Or a lot less, and more subtle."

I seem to remember that there were few if any ads during track coverge this year and checking Hindy's post he talks about that and the other means of funding. So that's been done already - check!

ACO giving money - yeah right - dream on - we've had that discussion here before - Didn't we already know that the ACO take a sanction fee for the rights.

KPY said

". I’m really not interested in what Sébasitien Loeb, or any other driver has to say when he gets out of his car (unless there’s a problem), any more than I want to listen to a post Grand Prix press conference."

KPY - you are in a massive minority - hearing the drivers' comments is exactly why most people like the radio  This is not a PA commentary at some 20 minute clubbie - this is 24 hours of continuous broadcasting - the drivers are an intergral part of what is going on. Are you seriously suggesting that they don't bother talking to driver/team personnel? Don't answer that...

More from KPY
"I’m not interested in the commercial circumstances. They are for the operator to negotiate with the ACO on the one hand and potential sponsors on the other. I had no idea that John Hindhaugh and his friends were financially responsible for the show this year, and whether they showed a profit or loss is their concern, not mine"

Unless I missed something no-one here is suggesting you should be interested in the commercial side of things. Unless you are going to either a) put some cash in or b) pay for the service - I'm guessing that neither of those are not on your agenda.

However that doesn't make the commercial REALITIES disappear. Making statements like that just make you sound like a petulent child -  "I don't care, it's not my problem, I don't care!"  Come on you're better than that!

Radio Le Mans will stand or fall on a business case - if the sport and the sportscar community generally won't support it then it's clear to me that it will disappear. It also means that there is a broader audience to consider in order that the business case is satisfied. That doesn't make the show intrinsically bad -its just different now and yes the Internet is pat of that. Live with it!

When did RLM on the 'net start by the way?- I seem to think 1997 or 98?


I do miss the 'outrageous days' of the early years but I presume that would get the station taken off air nowadays - I don't miss the lack of overnight coverage (Still happening at the classic!) I don't miss scratchy walkie talkie messages from the far side of the circuit - I accept that the RLM guys can only talk about what they see on the TV coverage - if something happens at Mulsanne Corner right in front of me and it's not picked up on TV then they can't be expected to know - can they?

This is the new guys first year of Radio Le Mans - my opinion much better than under the last stewardship - it's clearly now run by poeple who care about the race and sportscars. They have already said they will take constructive comments on board but there are some here who just seem to like to moan and criticise - "the old days were better" really?

They had 15 records which you heard over and over - the Castrol Oil ad was OK for the first 20 times you heard it  - I remember the music shows at RLM in 87/88 the presenters sounded like they were drunk or high (or both) - Funny? - a bit sometimes - but also very embarrasing as I look back now. 

KPY thinks the service has gone downhill - I agree!

Since about 2001/2 there seemed to be a reduction in coverage with more Autosport and other magazine content and less race/event coverage.  I seem to remember Sheik Mactoum being interviewed in the first hour of the race (in 2003?) about what would become A1GP - clearly corporate politics at play there- great battle on the track 15 mins of non-relevant interview...

This year there was none of that - no long tyre company interviews, not anything from fuel suppliers - nothing to interrupt the racing.

So 2006 an improvement - yes - back to basics - definitely!

I've come late to this, and the prior 'RLM: Crap or what?' thread. I was working with the Grand Fromage, Baloo (or Smug Bastard, as I see he describes himself in the post-race Jox Jottings) et al doing the English language writing for the ACO website, and I have to say that it would be far, FAR harder without RLM. Even though we had bilinguals listening to the track commentary, RLM was often faster than them in reporting incidents - and on occasion got the story right when the commentary didn't.

Does this mean I think RLM is wonderful, and the sun shines out of Hindy's posterior? Well, no. I've only been doing LM since '95, and I do feel it's not as good as it used to be. But I'm not sure I could actually say conclusively which aspects of the service have declined. Two or three years ago I thought it was in danger of turning into the Hindhaugh show, but I don't think that's true any longer. When they first added Chuck Dressing, he added something new, but recently I felt he was rambling and irrelevant on too many occasions - but then, he wasn't there this year.

I agree that the hourly run-down was pretty erratic this year. I'd suggest they do a run-down of the top three in each class at the top of the hour, after the UK news, with a full run-down of the entire field, including retirements, on the half-hour

I haven't read every word in every post, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is the difficulty they face in trying to cover a 24-hour race, which includes long periods when nothing of any great significance is happening, on a live audio commentary with no respite apart from ads and the hourly news bulletin. Frankly, getting anywhere close to achieving this wihtout endless repetition is a major achievement.

I did think they should have challenged the Radical team, and their assertion that they'd cured water in the exhaust pipes with RadWeld. Hands up anyone who thinks a cracked exhaust manifold can be cured with RadWeld? No, me neither.

No, RLM were far from perfect - but they weren't a complete disaster either.

I for one would like to thank 'Oldtimer' or Pat (for Ian’s.........benefit. ++++++.) For raising this debate, I had mentioned before that I would not bother taking my radio next year. I will now. I genuinely feel that the constructive points raised in this thread, and the fact that RLM are big enough to listen will help the service improve and as a result make the station, (once again) a really important part of the Le Mans experience.

I would like to add my comments.....having sat in the background,so to speak.

I first visited the cicuit in 98,and was really pleased to hear the commentary of RLM as we would have been completely in the dark at that time as to what was going on during the race.

On the current rantings.We are all loyal to RLM,but as creatures of habit we do not like change,and feel the radio station is letting the trackside supporters down and is now preferring to support the WWW.

The majority of us who are now regulars have access to the web at home and.......now have to accept that RLM also has to cater for those who cannot attend the race for whaterver reasons,whether it be cost,commitments or logisitcs,and remember we have only really been able to use the net in the past 5 years for broadcasts via streaming,so RLM have given us the opportunity to listen at home when previously  it was out of our reach.

On a number of occasions last season I sat in front of the PC listening to RLM who were broadcasting  various races.....because I could not attend!!!!

So to Hindy and the crew ......keep up the good work......but remember us trackside boys.....and can you bring back the Friday eveing treks into the campsites next year and when is Mr Titchmarsh returning to the fold as he really took the pi""" out of me when I had a problem with the car and needed help with borrowing some tools to do the job,Which he (kindy) put out on air. ;D ;D

Wishy

We seem to be coming to a positive conclusion on the RLM debate and hopefully helpful to them for future broadcasts - which is a good thing, and fits with the nature of the CA forum.

I doubt that RLM expects to be perfect for everybody; hopefully they will be able to keep the overall fan perspective both trackside and on WWW balanced with the commercial reality.

Apologies if my rebuttal of Pat's initial post was a bit strong for some (especially to you Pat), it just seemed to be a very negative and harshly critical soapbox that you were standing on.

Apologies accepted Ian.  Thank you.

I am not sure if this is the beginning of the end of this thread or not.  If it is then thanks to those who have contributed to what has been a lively and, on the whole, constructive debate.

If the thread does fade away let us not all forget what has been discussed.  Keep up the lobbying of the ACO to improve their trackside information systems - it will enhance evrybody's enjoyment of the event  - and let's hope that RLM can incorporate into their future broadcasts some of the suggestions that have been made to improve the lot of the trackside listeners.

A little off topic, but here goes……

There has been mention in this thread that in the past there used to be 'information' screens around the circuit (I have only been going since 1997 and don't recall seeing them, so before my time I guess).

Some people liked them, others commented they were often inaccurate.

But surely with today's real time feedback and timing from the cars as they pass the pits there should be no reason for these screens to be inaccurate if they were re-instated by the ACO. The technology must exist that they would not need to lay down miles of communication cable, some sort of local transmission could be possible to the far flung reaches of the circuit.

I mean they use this timing technology to feed into the team garages and pit wall, why cannot it just be fed to other screens in other areas of the track?

Anyone know if this is technically possible?

I don't see this as a replacement to RLM, but could compliment it.

I have to admit that my recollection was that they were pretty much up to date most of the time, even in 1986/87 which was the last time I remember seeing them. This debate has established that they were not to everyone’s taste, but I have to say I really liked them. I agree with you surely the technology must exist??

As I mentioned my email has been sent to the ACO requesting that perhaps they could consider the reintroduction of the screens. I will post here if I hear anything from them.

The technology does exists and, as I think I pointed out on another thread, these screens are available in the ACO members' areas.  They are, or seem to be, live timing screens. Maybe the ACO want more people to join but if so, they might pubicise this more as an advantage of membership.

The technology does exists and, as I think I pointed out on another thread, these screens are available in the ACO members' areas.  They are, or seem to be, live timing screens. Maybe the ACO want more people to join but if so, they might pubicise this more as an advantage of membership.

Your are right of course Termietermite, it would be nice now for there to be screens around the circuit, at Mulsanne and Arnage in particular where radio reception is occasionally a little below par.

Yes, I find them very usefull when I vist the members area.

But the half dozen times I went there this year the place was packed.

If the ACO get a ton more members and they all start using the members area it will be over crowded, and not a pleasurbale experience.

By just sticking a few more information screens around the place it would please a much wider audience, not just the English, but all race goes.

(by screens I don't mean the huge TV things)

monitors might be a better description perhaps?

Sounds about right.  I'll e-mail the ACO on this subject (as I have on others).  Will anybody else?

I'm in on this one for sure....

mine is already sent ;D

I also rememnber the monitors, and IIRC they were very up-to-date, and you were never far away from them if you were anywhere in the main viewing area on the private part of the circuit.  I also rember the army of boys who maintained the 'Leader Board' display above the old pits - but I am not suggesting we lobby for a return to THAT.

I'm not sure that flooding the ACO with emails from individuals requesting the re-instatement of these monitors is the best way to go.  Can we not get a resposible body, eg Grand Fromage (probably the only responsible body we have!!), to lobby the ACO on our behalf as the representative of over 1500 people - I think this would carry more weight than the 100 or so emails that would otherwise be generated.

I can't see that it would be very expensive for the ACO - they already have the 'drivers' in place, and repeating monitors in all the garages, VIP suites, press rooms and ACO enclosures.  Surely just an extension to the network that is already there, and a few dozen monitors.

Del

Almost like a petition you mean......Dear ACO, .......this request is also the feeling of 1500 CA memebers, etc. hank you for yuos consideration, etc.



That is exactly what I wast rying to get at, but got caught up in my own waffle.