Title: Moral Dilemma
Post by: jpchenet on February 21, 2006, 02:14:38 pm
As per the Sell/Swap section, because of the ACO again screwing up our ticket allocation this year we have had to muddle our collection of tickets together through various sources. I therefore have a some Bleu Nord camping permits and some GA tickets that I want to get my money back on.
I have tried a couple of friendly routes, but am now going to probably have to revert to a well known auction site.
So, do I put them up at a fixed price of £140/£145 for a camping pass and two GA's (which is what I paid for them plus eBay buying and selling fees) or do I put them on there in an open auction and see what I get, which may lead to a profit.
Firstly, the auction will not be on this site so I won't be using CA for profiteering (indeed I might still make a loss) but I see it two ways. If I put them on at cost, it allows the profiteers to continue to make money, and indeed the buyer may buy them from me simply to resell them later. If I do make any profit, it would only go towards the Tropicoma fund anyway so it's hardly profiteering. In fact, it will help cover the cost of the Tropicoma that Lawnmower Man won in the charity auction.
What do I do??
I have tried a couple of friendly routes, but am now going to probably have to revert to a well known auction site.
So, do I put them up at a fixed price of £140/£145 for a camping pass and two GA's (which is what I paid for them plus eBay buying and selling fees) or do I put them on there in an open auction and see what I get, which may lead to a profit.
Firstly, the auction will not be on this site so I won't be using CA for profiteering (indeed I might still make a loss) but I see it two ways. If I put them on at cost, it allows the profiteers to continue to make money, and indeed the buyer may buy them from me simply to resell them later. If I do make any profit, it would only go towards the Tropicoma fund anyway so it's hardly profiteering. In fact, it will help cover the cost of the Tropicoma that Lawnmower Man won in the charity auction.
What do I do??
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Robspot on February 21, 2006, 02:48:31 pm
Firstly, no amount of profit is ever going to cover the Tropicoma that Tom drinks.
Secondly the unwritten rule is that you offer tickets on here for face value. You've done that and no-one's interested. Okay maybe a newbie with 1 post will come along but why should you sell to them?
List them on e*** as a standard auction. As you say, if people want to pay over the odds that's hardly your fault is it. You're only selling unwanted tickets because the ACO stuffed you up and you had to pay over the odds to get where you wanted. I think one of the main problems that people have with e*** is that someone else is making obscene profits and not them!
Still, I do think the ACO should do something about it, there's a guy called WagsterWag who we spoke about last year. He sold about 20 passes last year and he's doing the same again this year. Now that IS taking the piss.
Secondly the unwritten rule is that you offer tickets on here for face value. You've done that and no-one's interested. Okay maybe a newbie with 1 post will come along but why should you sell to them?
List them on e*** as a standard auction. As you say, if people want to pay over the odds that's hardly your fault is it. You're only selling unwanted tickets because the ACO stuffed you up and you had to pay over the odds to get where you wanted. I think one of the main problems that people have with e*** is that someone else is making obscene profits and not them!
Still, I do think the ACO should do something about it, there's a guy called WagsterWag who we spoke about last year. He sold about 20 passes last year and he's doing the same again this year. Now that IS taking the piss.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Bob U on February 21, 2006, 04:46:03 pm
Mark, not so much of a dilemma surely. You put them up for sale on CA abiding by the no profiteering rule, only intending to recoup your outlay. If you had no takers then you should dispose of them any way you see fit.
The way I look at it is, everyone has the same oppertunities to purchase tickets from the ACO at cost price, maybe not on their chosen campsite but that is a gamble we all take. If someone didn't order tickets in time and is prepared to pay you over the odds at a later date then that is no fault of yours
Rather you make a profit than sell them at a fixed price only to have them appear on e-bay and someone else make a profit. At least you're not running a touting business like this WagsterWag seems to be
The way I look at it is, everyone has the same oppertunities to purchase tickets from the ACO at cost price, maybe not on their chosen campsite but that is a gamble we all take. If someone didn't order tickets in time and is prepared to pay you over the odds at a later date then that is no fault of yours
Rather you make a profit than sell them at a fixed price only to have them appear on e-bay and someone else make a profit. At least you're not running a touting business like this WagsterWag seems to be
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: hgb on February 21, 2006, 05:42:58 pm
Mark, if you need to get rid of one GA ticket here's one taker. We can swap money/ticket at Spa probably.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Steve Pyro on February 21, 2006, 05:44:42 pm
Mark, I'm of the same opinion as those above.
You've made a fair and reasonable attempt to sell the tickets on this site under the rules of this site - I did the same last month and sold mine. You haven't had much interest.
Therefore, put them on ePAY and get what ever the hell people are prepared to pay for them.
You've made a fair and reasonable attempt to sell the tickets on this site under the rules of this site - I did the same last month and sold mine. You haven't had much interest.
Therefore, put them on ePAY and get what ever the hell people are prepared to pay for them.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Nordic on February 21, 2006, 06:03:16 pm
you can bet that the day after you list them, someone will pop up one CA and want one!
But as the others have all said and assuming you need to recoup your outlay asap, then I would stick them up on ebay and not lose too much sleep over it.
But as the others have all said and assuming you need to recoup your outlay asap, then I would stick them up on ebay and not lose too much sleep over it.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: jpchenet on February 21, 2006, 06:08:41 pm
Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Andy Zarse on February 21, 2006, 06:13:14 pm
I have no problem with you selling on eB*y, but use a £1 start!
The only people I object to are those who deliberately order too many tix so they can sell at a profit to cover their own costs, i.e. they camp for free and have some money left over. I have no problem with naked capitalism but I do with bad manners and sheer greed. It's no different to folk who eat all the food at a buffet before everyone has had a fair crack of the whip. Smug greedy fat bastards need to be told. So I did with a bloke on ebay last week, the one ho was selling for £105.
I said - Sir, I quote from your advert - "I've been extremely lucky with ticket allocation and have a few spare (3 IN TOTAL!), my good fortune becomes yours"
The only reason you have been lucky and have three spares is, I suggest, because you deliberately over ordered to make a profit, thereby denying tickets at face value for genuine fans of the race. Anyway, selling these tix at effectively double face value is in contravention of both ebay rules and the terms of your purchase from the ACO. Read the ticket. I seem to remember you pulled the same stunt last year with some Beausejour tickets. So I just wanted to say I think you are an unmitigated bounder and, Sir, a complete cad.
The only people I object to are those who deliberately order too many tix so they can sell at a profit to cover their own costs, i.e. they camp for free and have some money left over. I have no problem with naked capitalism but I do with bad manners and sheer greed. It's no different to folk who eat all the food at a buffet before everyone has had a fair crack of the whip. Smug greedy fat bastards need to be told. So I did with a bloke on ebay last week, the one ho was selling for £105.
I said - Sir, I quote from your advert - "I've been extremely lucky with ticket allocation and have a few spare (3 IN TOTAL!), my good fortune becomes yours"
The only reason you have been lucky and have three spares is, I suggest, because you deliberately over ordered to make a profit, thereby denying tickets at face value for genuine fans of the race. Anyway, selling these tix at effectively double face value is in contravention of both ebay rules and the terms of your purchase from the ACO. Read the ticket. I seem to remember you pulled the same stunt last year with some Beausejour tickets. So I just wanted to say I think you are an unmitigated bounder and, Sir, a complete cad.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Steve Pyro on February 21, 2006, 06:24:27 pm
So I just wanted to say I think you are an unmitigated bounder and, Sir, a complete cad.
(http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/terry_thomas.jpg)
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Andy Zarse on February 21, 2006, 07:19:58 pm
I have another moral dilemma - Tomorrow I can either go skiing in Austria til sunday or I can stay in England in the pissing rain. Apart from eating more fruit and veg, what should I do??
I'm outta here...
I'm outta here...
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Martini...LB on February 21, 2006, 08:42:38 pm
Jpc - Go for the ebxx option as you have tried all else.
This Wagster MoFo is making a shedload of money by selling on Ebxx, bastxxrd.
Should we try and contact someone that has bought one and see if there is an address available and then send him a turd in the post?!
I wonder if he actually goes to LM.
Martini...not long to Sebring
This Wagster MoFo is making a shedload of money by selling on Ebxx, bastxxrd.
Should we try and contact someone that has bought one and see if there is an address available and then send him a turd in the post?!
I wonder if he actually goes to LM.
Martini...not long to Sebring
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Robbo SPS on February 21, 2006, 09:08:49 pm
Looks like i shall be shedding a couple of GA's on the net ( cheap bulk buy ones though _
If not i'll be palming them out at the rudmore on Monmday / Tuesday night...
My bus driver's called in sick already !!
He's baby sitting
If not i'll be palming them out at the rudmore on Monmday / Tuesday night...
My bus driver's called in sick already !!
He's baby sitting
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Piglet on February 21, 2006, 09:43:05 pm
JPC - you know I've just had a similar dilemma having bought a MB ticket on ebay last night.
I really really hate buying tickets from there - as you said in the other thread, without demand these tossers who manage to get hold of 10 spare tickets would be stuck with them and would be reducing the price to get shot of them BUT (there always is isn't there!) - there are no MB tickets around here and we're going to be stuffed if we've only got the one we've got at the moment (thanks to the wonders of CA!).
So....I've added to the problem by buying from there but I really am all out of options. In reality I've probably paid less for it than if I bought it from one of the ticket agents and been forced to buy overpriced GA as well.
I've also got the same dilemma as you - I'm holding two Bleu Nord tickets and from your experience nobody is buying them - I'm not sure what I'll do with them. Perhaps I'll hold them until the panic buying starts in April/May? but what happens if the place is flooded with Bleu Nord tickets then - I know that there are lot of us who got them in place of MB.
Bugger - why is it all so blooming complicated >:(
I really really hate buying tickets from there - as you said in the other thread, without demand these tossers who manage to get hold of 10 spare tickets would be stuck with them and would be reducing the price to get shot of them BUT (there always is isn't there!) - there are no MB tickets around here and we're going to be stuffed if we've only got the one we've got at the moment (thanks to the wonders of CA!).
So....I've added to the problem by buying from there but I really am all out of options. In reality I've probably paid less for it than if I bought it from one of the ticket agents and been forced to buy overpriced GA as well.
I've also got the same dilemma as you - I'm holding two Bleu Nord tickets and from your experience nobody is buying them - I'm not sure what I'll do with them. Perhaps I'll hold them until the panic buying starts in April/May? but what happens if the place is flooded with Bleu Nord tickets then - I know that there are lot of us who got them in place of MB.
Bugger - why is it all so blooming complicated >:(
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Perdu on February 21, 2006, 09:45:17 pm
Mark, no contest in the moral dilemma stakes is it? After all you have done helping others get tickets in the past (me, me, me!) how could it be a problem to shift 'em on eb**. No problem putting the start price at what you have already had to pay either.
If it does make a small extra stipend which troubles your conscience, well I for one would be willing to visit team JPC simply to sample the drink of the decade and help alleviate your obviously distressing symptoms of guilt.
No, don't thank ,me! 'Tis the least I could do...
:D
If it does make a small extra stipend which troubles your conscience, well I for one would be willing to visit team JPC simply to sample the drink of the decade and help alleviate your obviously distressing symptoms of guilt.
No, don't thank ,me! 'Tis the least I could do...
:D
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: jpchenet on February 21, 2006, 10:29:38 pm
Thanks again guys and girls.
Just to allevaite any problems I may have had morally, Wagsterwak (I take it the end of his name has a silent N missing) has just listed 4 more Houx Annexe at £95. That's about triple face value!!!!
And Mr Zarse, the chap you wrote to was also written to by me. His riginal ad said he had three spare tickets in total. When the three had sold, he listed another three!! Piglet, if yours was a fixed price of £105, I think it was his second batch that you bought from so you may want to double check his allocation.
Just to allevaite any problems I may have had morally, Wagsterwak (I take it the end of his name has a silent N missing) has just listed 4 more Houx Annexe at £95. That's about triple face value!!!!
And Mr Zarse, the chap you wrote to was also written to by me. His riginal ad said he had three spare tickets in total. When the three had sold, he listed another three!! Piglet, if yours was a fixed price of £105, I think it was his second batch that you bought from so you may want to double check his allocation.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Snoring Rhino on February 21, 2006, 11:27:45 pm
Although this year seems to be more extream re MB, in the past there have been plenty of camping passes floating around in the last few weeks. Not that I have ever been, or had to be, brave enough to hold on that long thanks to friends and good deeds. Its bit early to start panicing though chaps and chapeses!
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: kassac on February 22, 2006, 10:17:10 am
jpc.....Just checking that the tickets I purchased from you are safe... I`m starting to get ready and did`nt fancy looking for more.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: redstu on February 22, 2006, 10:38:05 am
JPC
Just to add to the consensus
Flog them on ebay and if you make a profit give it to charity.
And Im with Perdu I'll help you drown your conscience at team jpc.
Regarding Bleu Nord - I'm sure they will also be in demand later through sell & Swap (or ebay), its a good location and even suitable for planespotters!
Just to add to the consensus
Flog them on ebay and if you make a profit give it to charity.
And Im with Perdu I'll help you drown your conscience at team jpc.
Regarding Bleu Nord - I'm sure they will also be in demand later through sell & Swap (or ebay), its a good location and even suitable for planespotters!
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: jpchenet on February 22, 2006, 10:48:33 am
jpc.....Just checking that the tickets I purchased from you are safe... I`m starting to get ready and did`nt fancy looking for more.
Absolutely!!!!! I had four tickets. On ehas goen to you, so that leaves me with three others and 6 GA's.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: BigH on February 22, 2006, 12:15:58 pm
Kinnell!
- i don't like e-bay either, but I'm not psychotic about it, chill out for chrissakes, it's just a tool after all.
My belief is that it's the shyster lying b*stard agencies who should be dragged out onto the pit straight and whipped like dogs.
The amount of tickets appearing on e-bay amounts to a tiny dribble from the japs eye compared to the total amount of tickets sold. The agencies on the other hand block buy thousands of them (and the ACO has to take some responsibility there), and it's their demand that stops fans been able to get tickets of their choice, even if they do try and order twelve months in advance.
H
- i don't like e-bay either, but I'm not psychotic about it, chill out for chrissakes, it's just a tool after all.
My belief is that it's the shyster lying b*stard agencies who should be dragged out onto the pit straight and whipped like dogs.
The amount of tickets appearing on e-bay amounts to a tiny dribble from the japs eye compared to the total amount of tickets sold. The agencies on the other hand block buy thousands of them (and the ACO has to take some responsibility there), and it's their demand that stops fans been able to get tickets of their choice, even if they do try and order twelve months in advance.
H
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: knetter on February 22, 2006, 02:01:36 pm
Would it be an idea to contact a farmer with a field close to the circuit entrance and try to rent it for the week just for the CA gang. Than we need not worry about dealing with the ACO or ticket agencies. Just dump a shower and bog block on the site, rent some sort of genny to supply the whole lot with power and some people to clean the loo's and the showers.
I bet it would save us a shite load of money if we could pull it off!!!
I bet it would save us a shite load of money if we could pull it off!!!
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Robspot on February 22, 2006, 02:17:19 pm
Nah, it would be too far away from the action. I like the fact that we're only minutes from the track. Also I like the cosmopolitan feel of MB with loads of different nationalities and teams. If we just rented a field I doubt we could see the track from it and we'd end up a bit cocooned.
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: knetter on February 22, 2006, 04:56:30 pm
I think last year there was an extra campsite for some Porshe Club set up at the Porshe Curves (how original). But I think it was trackside, something like that would suit me fine.
I also like to be at MB for all of the above stated reasons, just such a pain in the derriere to get enough tickets for it due to the ACO allocations mystery rules. But I guess that is all part of the excitement!!
I also like to be at MB for all of the above stated reasons, just such a pain in the derriere to get enough tickets for it due to the ACO allocations mystery rules. But I guess that is all part of the excitement!!
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Robspot on February 23, 2006, 09:31:57 am
We could buy the Maison Blanche field and then sell our own tickets on ebay. We'd make a fortune. And we could put a clause on the tickets that if we don't like the look of you when you turn up we don't have to let you in! :D
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: jpchenet on February 23, 2006, 09:46:40 am
Now you're talking Robspot!! I wonder how much the ACO would want?
DfH could install a grandstand, a Team JPC Cocktail Bar, The Brethrens Chili Challenge food outlet, The Liverpool Boy's Low Flyers Bar, SPS's don't bring any beer bar showing live football.........................Hang about.........we have all that already!!! ;D
DfH could install a grandstand, a Team JPC Cocktail Bar, The Brethrens Chili Challenge food outlet, The Liverpool Boy's Low Flyers Bar, SPS's don't bring any beer bar showing live football.........................Hang about.........we have all that already!!! ;D
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Mr Toad on February 23, 2006, 07:13:11 pm
And our bar too..if we still qualify as a CA outpost!
FYI I looked at the field option 3 years ago, and realised that the paper profit or cost cover would probably ruin one of the best weeks away of the year...leave the organisation/local politics to the ACO & pikeys!
Any view as to if they will issue the same number of tickets on MB this year ? - ie have we seen the theoretical max number of campers, or are we set for a bigger squeeze. I only ask as Baldrick will soon start work on the rotating paddling pool base, and I need to know if its the 8ft or 12 ft one to bring... ;D
Also catching up over here - who isnt "in" yet - or is everyone fixed?
FYI I looked at the field option 3 years ago, and realised that the paper profit or cost cover would probably ruin one of the best weeks away of the year...leave the organisation/local politics to the ACO & pikeys!
Any view as to if they will issue the same number of tickets on MB this year ? - ie have we seen the theoretical max number of campers, or are we set for a bigger squeeze. I only ask as Baldrick will soon start work on the rotating paddling pool base, and I need to know if its the 8ft or 12 ft one to bring... ;D
Also catching up over here - who isnt "in" yet - or is everyone fixed?
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Martini...LB on February 23, 2006, 08:56:32 pm
And our bar too..if we still qualify as a CA outpost!
I only ask as Baldrick will soon start work on the rotating paddling pool base, and I need to know if its the 8ft or 12 ft one to bring... ;D
I only ask as Baldrick will soon start work on the rotating paddling pool base, and I need to know if its the 8ft or 12 ft one to bring... ;D
How about both.. a tiered pool system like a wedding cake!!
Martini...
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: BigH on February 23, 2006, 09:03:48 pm
Greetings Mr Toad!
Tell him to go for the biggest! -Turnip Number One! - with all the trimmings.
Talking about population density at MB, I noticed last year that it had been extended a hell of a lot at the top end, it must have doubled the number of campers. I didn't have a look up that end after Friday morning, did the new field fill up as well? I did notice it was a little more "camp" than normal up there though.
The b*stards'll have us buliding timber railway bridges over the track and under the baking sun next.
H
Tell him to go for the biggest! -Turnip Number One! - with all the trimmings.
Talking about population density at MB, I noticed last year that it had been extended a hell of a lot at the top end, it must have doubled the number of campers. I didn't have a look up that end after Friday morning, did the new field fill up as well? I did notice it was a little more "camp" than normal up there though.
The b*stards'll have us buliding timber railway bridges over the track and under the baking sun next.
H
Title: Re: Moral Dilemma
Post by: Robspot on February 23, 2006, 10:14:18 pm
We were in the new field last year and it was full by thursday evening, bar a couple of double-jointed vehicles that managed to slip into various tight orifices early on friday. They just can't get enough of it!
