Club Arnage

Reason number three thousand and one to think F1 is a steaming pile of crap.  The most majestic road circut in the world still in use is no longer good enough for F1?  I'm sure there's another third world nation just dying to have a GP, Cambodia perhaps.  What a collection of idiots...
Fax
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?series=6&id=2323400

It has been a rumour for some time but now it's fact. I'm sorry for the Ardennes region. The race used to pull spectators and money. I also wonder what the true reasons are. I read somewhere that a new pit complex is planned at the 'bus stop'. There's also this 'trois circuits' project which is unlikely to start in the next few years because of lack of money. The only positive thought  I come up with is that if the poison dwarf drops Spa completely there's hope that they tear down the fences and make it a true spectator circuit again.
It seems that Hockenheim will be next on the dwarf's hate list.

This could be a blessing in reality.  If they only drew 50,000 spectators last year as the article says, the race is a money loser, they're spending too much money to host it and they'll be better off without it.  As for Hockenheim, they can bulldoz the place for all I care after the way they've butchered that circut.
Fax

Quite right too!! No offence to our German pals but I have never understood why the European GP is (almost) always held in Germany. Why can't it rotate like the European presidency? I seem to remember this decision had something to do with a certain fat ex-Chancellor?

I say we should bring back the Grand Prix of Gibralta and Mr Ustinov.

It must be old fashioned like Silverstone - there aren't enough fences, the crowds are too close, there's not enough corporate hospitality venues on track or 5 star hotels in the area.

Didn't Mrs Ecclestone have the licence to run this one

What a surprise, with GA-tickets rising well over 100 pounds sterling on race day only - while people behind you find a gap through the gates in the forrest. Precisely the same story like Zandvoort in the seventies, where people just jumped the fences in the dunes :-\

Another act of that same ol' poisones dwarf, how to ruin a circuit in two months...  ::)

Andy,
If memory serves me correctly, in the eighties the European GP was (almost) always held at Brands ;D .  Be glad its not now, they'd f**k up the circut beyond all recognition to host a F1 race.  As I said, losing the GP may not be a bad thing for Spa.  When Mid-Ohio lost their CART round a few years ago, people who really don't understand the economics of the sport thought it would be a huge hit to the circut, but the reality is the circut has never been healthier than it is now.  That CART race was a money pit, especially with the sagging attendance of recent years.  They're glad to be rid of it.
Fax

From a nostalgic point of view, it is a shame, but inevitable with the dwarf’s sole interest in corporate hospitality revues – these older circuits just do not have the infrastructure at the circuit or in the area. Same sh*t as Silverstone, they have ruined the circuit and just have no interest in racing FANS, just constrain them, give them poor viewing and then rip them off!  Like you say Fax, SPA will probably be best off without it and use there budgets more wisely supporting other series, I think the little Git has got his way and it may as well be considered as an Asian series now, shame because it was an industry that we could be proud of and a lot of people will loose their jobs because of its European decline.

It is a shame for the drivers not to go to Spa next year, it is probably the last circuit for drivers with bollocks, specially in an F1 car. On the other hand, if you look at attendance, 50.000 is not enough to make a profit, so I think for the survival of the circuit it might not be so bad. Knowing the poison dwarf, he would probably flatten out eau rouge for safety reasons!!!

Good news is, we can still go to Spa and enjoy some real racing in the LMES series and of course visit the 24 hours of Spa, which attracts some 100,000 spectators weather permitting!

I wonder how many more European Venues will go ( Not Tukey - not really european ?? )

Eventually it will start a decline in European interst as Ian says, and eventually F1 may just fall of its purch. What a shame.

I would think of concern to many would be if more & more races are held in the east, would teams themselves start re-locating there.  Could be a big economic hit.  It sounds like the decline in European interest is already well underway if they're only drawing 50,000 to Spa. Most of the people I know who are (or should I say were) long-time F1 fans have thrown in the towel on F1 a long time ago.  The only people I know who still follow it here are a couple of ex-pats down at the local pub who fits Matt's perfectly described profile as having shaved heads, tattooed necks and live in soccer jerseys.
Fax

Correct, if twice is (almost) always. 1983 and 1985. The only other European GP in the 80s was 1984 at the then brand new Nurburgring.
Spa is back on for a GP in 2007, BTW.

Ah yes KPY, Brands only twice during eighties.  But prior to that England used to host two or three non-championship F1 races a year.  What ever happened to those?  Oh thats right, the evil pygmy got control of the sport :-X
Good to hear its back on the calendar for '07...for now.  Hate to see it get replaced by the GP of Taiwan.
Fax

Two lines of thought on this, one its good to maintain an (F1) world leading industry and a centre of operational excelence second to none for a couple of years longer, but two, the core vaule of a racing spectacle which we (race fans) will pay good money to see has gone. So if it does head east, it will open up the opportunities for new formulas that will resore the opportunities for the fan base to return. Might force a change for the good, the european teams should see the writing on the wall.   

Thought Senna's balls-out sixth to first at the end of lap one at Donington in the wet was the European GP that year (1991?)??

As to dropping Spa, long live the Spa 24 hrs, LMES, GT racing etc.   F1 has long ceased to be a much interest to most of us I think, although having a good bitch about its latest Ar*e bollox decisions always brings out a nice crop of nostalgic posts!

MG Mark

Right you are Mark, GP of Europe 1993.
Fax

Thought so - absolutely bloody awesome lap - one of the best -anywhere - ever.   Raises the hairs on the back of the neck just remembering it, waiting for a massive off, but then realising that he was not only considerably faster than the rest, but was on the very edge of control, overtaking where no other man dare tread....aaahh....those were the days.....Sod Ecclestone and the other money-hungry grabbers - about time they put something back into the sport - not many of them do.   Rant over - for now.

MG Mark

MG Mark   

And here's the story of it, complete with the first lap on video as an mpeg.   Enjoy..... ;D ;D ;D ;D

http://www.farzadsf1gallery.com/features/donin93.html

Was slightly wrong on 6th to first - was fourth on the grid, dreopped to fifth at the start and was then first by the end of the first lap.....epic

MG Mark

Made Schuey, Prost, Hill, etc. all look pretty ham-fisted that day.  How may tire stops did Alain make that day?  About fifteen?  And of course there's Mikey beaching a car on the first lap AGAIN!
Jesus his F1 foray was a disaster...
Fax

You might wanna check this fran: http://www.proximus24hours.com/index_flash.asp

Ohhh - that looks like fun... anyone going?  (or been before?) - is there camping n stuff?

I know some of DfH have been there before, ans likely there will be camping. ;)

Are you winking at me?!! saucy devil!  8)

Might have to pencil that into my diary ... 1000kms are for sissies.  ;D

When is this, what kinda cars?
Nuff said, have another beer Fran.
Fax

MGMark,
Thanks for the Senna clip,
But Jonathan Woss doing the commentary?
A Bit like Murray Walker doing Top of the Pops!

I remember getting up in the early hours of the morning to watch F1 Gp's and qualifying, but I wouldn't even bother staying in on a Sunday afternoon to watch it now.

Hey, i have never claimed to actually know anything about motor racing! 

P.S.  not really much of a beer drinker either  :P

This begs the question Fran, if your not a racing enthusiast, why bother going to Le Mans?  To be honest, over here there are a hell of alot of people who go to the Indy 500 or the Kentucky Derby who couldn't give a sh**t about the respective sports, they just go to get pissed, buy a t-shirt and say they were there.  Never understood the point in that.  I can invite some friends over, get pissed in the backyard and have as much fun.
Perhaps I'm in the minority but, I actually go to races as a racing enthusiast and to watch racing (and drink beer)
Fax

Again misunderstood - I never said I wasnt an enthusiast!

Admitted, I dont have any technical or historical knowledge, dont know all the drivers and their CVs and every other class of racing they have done, and dont know what kinda of cars are driven at every individual race meet all round the world, but that doesnt mean i dont give a sh*t about the sport or that i am only there for the beer and the t-shirt.   

Sometimes knowing too much can take all the fun out of things.  ;)

Fax, I would counter that there are a goodly slice of spectators at Le Mans who have no interest in motorsports.

I know that some of the members of groups camping at LM hosted by regulars on this forum go for the sun, the food and drink, the cameraderie of their fellow man and to have a good craic away from the drudgery of workaday life.

Actually watching the racing is, to some, purely optional.

Anyone in particular in mind Steve?  ??? ::) ???

No answer required...  :-\

As I said guys, there are plenty of people who do the same thing for big sporting events here as well.  Nothing against them at all, just that it wouldn't be for me.  I preface this by saying that I'm not a big crowd kind of person, if I have no interest in whats going on, being around a huge mass of people makes my skin crawl.  I went to the Kentucky Derby once and admit to having no interest at all in horse racing and by mid day I was ready to run out of the place screaming.  If I wasn't a racing fan, I'd rather be camping at a local state park with a couple of mates and sharing some beers over a campfire than be packed in with 200,000 people.
Fax

I wouldnt go to any sporting event i wasnt interested in either - especially horse racing!  (madly hoping the kentuky derby actually IS a horse race!)   

My original question about the Spa 24 Hrs arose because I know the LMES race at Spa is only a 1000km, so I did actually have some small degree of knowledge of the LMES calendar at least!  It didnt seem an unreasonable thing to ask at the time - this being a LeMans themed forum n all.  ::)

Sorry for picking on you Fran, just found it somewhat amusing that your a 11 year vet of the LM 24 Hours, yet wasn't familiar with the Spa 24 Hours, one of the most historic & prestigous races in the world.
Fax

No worries fax, i dont feel picked on!  Not sure i care for being called a "vet" tho....

Well, if there would have been a little more fog at the '05 edition, they would have taken 24 hours to cover those 1000kms ;)

lucky for us spectators they drop the flag after six hours dead :P

Agreed Fran, LM is special because of the People who go.
We've camped at Silverstone for F1 (95, 96, 97, 98) and it couldn’t be more different, pissed up aggressive atmosphere, but at that time the racing was good (although declining).
First went to LM in 2001 (without brad) very wet and could have been very miserable - in carpark blue(no facilities), flooded tent got in on Friday, but there was something about the atmosphere.
Brad and I went in 2002, again in Car park Blue, on Thursday, quickly made friends, and the Sun shinned, but still no facilities, Brill.
2003 Camped in Camping Blue, as soon as we pulled up, given a beer by our neighbours, offered ice pack refreezing, buy a group of Porsche owners behind us, great.
2004, Karting North, Beer as soon as we arrived, started hooking up with CA and SPS, Mad Friday, St Saturnin, Race Start, Poo bar, Race finish(some pratts but no big probs).
2005 as above, on MB, bloody hot, just great.
So as apart of the big picture you if you could take out the race and leave the rest = more drinking time, less effort, ---- may be I can see why people don’t bother with the race.    
But then again, the atmosphere at the start is fantastic, the Hawaiian tropic girls, the anthems, the noise as they all come through, the shere effort and commitment of the Teams in the pits, Radio LM, the slog of the cars through Arnage on Sunday morning, the finish, on to the track, under the podium for the presentation!!!! That’s what does it for us.
But, I would still spend a weekend in a field with the special breed of people who go to LM even without the Race!!! Its obvoiusly the same deal at Sebring, its just some people like the stats, history etc etc as well as the Beer others just want to chill out (or not), its all apart of it.
Tally ho, roll on June!

  

Very well put IRW, I tend to have a bit of tunnel vision when it comes to motor racing and I view it from the perspective of someone who has been a devoted enthusiast for a very long time, hence my bitching & complaining about the state of the sport today.  Agreed, its the people who make a motor racing special, fans, competitors, and even pig-headed organizers and officials (except Bernie, hope he falls into a giant black hole for f**k*ng up beyond all recognition my beloved F1 and Tony George just because he a dumb-ass who screwed up Indycar racing forever).
Fax

The Spa 24 Hours is the second biggest event after the F1 race (now the biggest  ;D ). In the 80s it was more of a touring car race. Now it's part of the FIA GT shedule. So, you have the FIA GT1 (Maserati MC12, 'Rarri 575, etc.)and GT2 ('Rarri 360, Porsche, is there any other ?) cars. Additionally you have a national class with cars from the Belgian GT championship (Belcar) and a guest class with some very rare cars.

It's a bit like baby LM but with access to the pits. I only can warmly recommend it.

I might just go and have a looky - as part of my continuing education it seems almost compulsory.  :)

Good idea Fran, it is a lot of fun. I recommend camping in the wooded area behind the main straight, little shelter for the inevitable rain at Spa!!

Did I say somewhere that I was in the pits for the race last year @ Spa?

No?

Well, I was...jolly good it was too :)

Showing off again Smokie?

Was that at the 24 hours or the 1000kms?  Do you have any useful information for me?!!  ??? How long is the drive from Calais or thereabouts?

Yes.

It was the 1000kms.

I haven't a clue how long the drive was but would guess 3 hours. It's all motorway.

I stayed in a comfy hotel in Liege but it was a long way away (30 mins maybe?). There was a spare bed though...   ;) :P

Comfy hotel indeed - you softie!! - anyway you know i prefer to be camping near the action  ;)