Club Arnage

Great to hear Murray Walker commentating on the Masters Grand Prix.
James Allen, you should hang your head in shame, you cock.

Rusty

Fully agree with you there Rusty, and to see two real Masters grab the race and make the cars work for them was sublime. Emerson's last ditch overtaking attempt proved that neither of them has lost their competetive edge or the skills that drove them on...

I take it the other cars had to be pedalled around, 20 seconds difference! OmiGod!

 :D

bill

There was even that thing, what do they call it now, overtaking.

Mansell hasn't lost it, and proved he must have had it, but had Fittipaldi been 10 years younger............  Even Warwick put up a good show.  Shame about Jan, started well etc.

Anybody know if this will be shown on terestial TV at any time?
I would be good to hear Murray getting over excited about nigle again.

It was on BBC two yesterday at 1600 on grandstand! :'(

A few errors by Muddly Talker, but what a refreshing change from The Cock. No whiney, overblown rhetoric or other horsesh**t, but real enthusiasm.

As to the race, it was pretty steady stuff to start with, but it got going towards the end. To be fair, Kyalami didn't seem to be the ideal track for this type of car, but the racinbg should get better on some of the more open curcuits later in the series. Oh, and Mansell was pretty awsome but I was a little disappointed by his lack of moaning.

We didn't get any of it over here but that can't really have been THE NIGE if there was no pissing & moaning and "what a herioc effort on my part, I won no thanks to the team".  From the testing pics I saw it looks like these cars had to be built as "wide bodies"  Mr. Tambay in particular looking like he hasn't missed many meals.
And how can you call this a GP if Andrea de Crasherous didn't leave his car a steaming pile of wreckage.
Fax

I fully agree it was a great race.  Real racers with passion for racing, real cars no auto boxes or traction control!!

You should have seen the smile on my face as soon as I heard Murray's voice, a pure genius  ;D

Unfortumately my daughter forgot to tape the BBC version for me so I missed Muddly. I watched it on Sunday night on Motors. Not sure if anyone else watched it but there were a couple of nobs commentating, some Henry double barrelled idiot that seems to know Jack about racing getting 'terribly' excited because they were hanging the arse out a bit. As for the rest, sorry guys, thought it was a bit boring. Perhaps the Muddly Talker version was better because you could concentrate on what he was/wasn't saying so had a more fun experience.

Touring cars or Moto GP is a lot better.

Martini...

I'm going to be treading on scared ground here and I realize he's a British icon...But!  I've always found Murray Walker annoying as hell!  The guy never shut the f**k up!  I've got a bunch of tapes of GP's from the 70's & 80's and the German language tapes from the seventies are a hundred times better because the commentators actually shut up and let the action do the talking.  Murry just babbled on like his pants where on fire. Enthusiasm is one thing but Jesus! Take a valium!  A bunch of fat middle age has-beens trying to cash in on their former fame (with the exception of Mansell, Emmo, Rene and Jonsey, the rest are never-were's) doesn't get it for me.
Fax

More like this Fax. Loved the "Steaming pile of wreakage line.
Canada Phil

Like you say Fax, Murray's a British Icon - you just wouldn't understand!!!!

That's what he did best.

 :-* :-* :-*

Did I mention....that I often bump into Derek in my local Co op supermarket (well he was behind me in the checkout que once) and I have spotted Nigel driving around in the Island a few times. Of course, he keeps to the very strict 40mph speed limit that is impossed here. ;)

I thought the 'race' was brill and Murray fluffing his commentary at times only added to the enjoyment.

 :-*
Lisa
x

A fantastic race (well after the first 10 laps) but having seen the difference in pace between Mansell and some of the known 'current' sports car drivers surely someone should be trying to get him behind the wheel of an LMP next June ::)

Just an idea.....

I think we hardened to Murray Walker - still part of the institution, but when F1 was on Eurosport, I preferred Wattie till the adverts.  Thank you for screwing this one all up Bernie

As for Mansell, why should any multimillionaire risk their life in a sportscar for a mere few grand.  (Forgive me Mario, but James Hunt was more interested in Tennis).  Lets hope Nige can win a few more as we're not doing too well in F1 or A1GP for that matter, but the Brits are clearing up in Indycar/DTM/Karts etc

Mansell in a sportscar?  You're kidding right?  He doesn't do anything unless he's getting paid a truck load of money. And driving a car with someone else's name besides his own on it? He wants to stand in the limelight alone, sharing the glory is a concept unknown to him.  If he can't bask in the glow of his fans adulation alone than he won't have anything to do with it.  Endurance racing is too much of a team sport for that w**k*r.
Fax

Maybe a few polls are called for on these issues  :-\

All of my Mansell bashing aside, and making fun of the extra unsprung weight these guys are carrying now, I think if they really want to bring back the good old days they need to erect about eight layers of catch fencing so we can watch Andrea De Cesaris mow them down.  I mean think of it, was there ever a more predictable sight at each race than a red & white McLaren or Alfa all waded up in wire mesh & catch poles.  How he ever survived all those years in F1 is amazing. Andrea single-handedly proved the crash integrity of carbon fiber during that first year at McLaren in '81.  Come on you wacky Roman!  Just for old times sake, lets see you barrel roll off into the countryside.
Fax

I think I know the problem.  As you get older these things hurt more. 

De Cesaris must have bad arthritis too from the more minor bangs.  Besides hitting things, doesn't he hold the record for not hitting things - the most number of spins (5?) in a F1 car

Plus he did bring Marlborough sponsorship into F1

Not sure about the spin thing but I know he holds some kind of record for the number of shunts in a single season, in 1981.  Marlboro was in the sport well before Andrea (made his debut in late 1980 for Alfa).  Big Lou Stanley of BRM introduced Marlboro to F1 as a sponsor of his team in 1972, replacing Yardley who jumped ship to McLaren.  Andrea did have Marlboro backing, that's what got him placed in Ron Dennis's Project 4 formula 2 team.
Fax

Still, good to see tem all back in a race car. I'm still ROFLing at your comments about A.d.C., Fax.  ;D

Agreed HGB, good to see some of these guys back in a race car again.  No doubt about it, you could have made a series of Havoc tapes from Andrea's F1 career alone.
My personal favorite was the start of the 1982 Austrian GP where he made a demon start and then went to great effort to swerve clear across the width of the track and clobber his teamate Bruno "Jack O'Maley"  Bang! two Alfa's out on the spot. It was fricking hilarious.
Fax

Well, Fax, you may be a little over the top and opinionated about Nige, BUT. I think you are right. I supported NM when he was racing but must admit toward the end I found him to be a bit of a whinger, etc, etc. Who else was there to support?
When you think about it though the only true racer of our times was SENNA. There is not an argument to this statement...think before you reply


M...

Martini,
You are kidding right?  That was a joke?  Senna the only true racer of our times?  LOL, what the f**k times are you talking about?  I'm 43 and have been following the sport since I was eight, my times included Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Ronnie Peterson, Mario Andretti, Gilles Villeneuve, Keke Rosberg, etc.  I don't even qualify Senna as a racer, he was a thug!  Any driver who would deliberately collide with an opponent or swerve at his oppostion has no busines being called a racer.  He single-handedly corrputed the racers ethic.   The guy was also the most pretentous ass to ever sit in a racing car.  His press conferences bleating on about his beliefs and virtues, yadda, yadda, what the f**k was that all about? You drive racing cars idot, your not a world leader. That tirade in Australia in 1989 is still a classic, the guy clearly took himself way too seriously!  Nigel was a pissing & moaning clown but Christ! at least he never intentionally took someone off the track at 170 mph.  Like I said, I'm not sure what times your talking about but they sure as hell aren't mine.
Fax

To me at least, Senna was the fastest guy on track of his generation. But he had a serious flaw, as fax has pointed out. He changed the face of motorsport with his needless antics for the worse.

To their enternal shame, neither of his teams, Lotus and McLaren, the other drivers or FISA calmed him down.

His drive at a wet Donny was sublime and should be classed as one of the greats, but I cannot forgive him for his part in making motorsport a contact sport.

Agreed Nordic,
There were days when you just watched him in awe, and his record for poles will probably never be broken.  Suzuka '88 and Donnington '93 were examples of him at his breathtaking best but unfortunately there are just as many days like Hungary '88 & '90, and Suzuka 1990, when he was a disgrace to the sport.  His blatant disregard for his safety and the safety of his colleagues and marshals made one seriously question his mental stability.  The late Michele Alboreto, Damon Hill, and Keke Rosberg, among others, have all said the same thing, that he was so talented there was never a reason for him to behave the way he did and that if the FIA had put the clamps on him when he first started his bullsh**t we wouldn't have to watch the immature antics we see from todays drivers.  Every driver in the junior ranks saw him getting away with it and figured they could to, Michael Schumacher being the most obvious example.  I'll always remember staying up late to watch the 1990 Japanese GP live from Suzuka, had a couple of friends over, had some beers, really excited about the prospect of another Adelaide 1986 thriller to decide the title.  What happened on the first lap of that race was really the beginning of the end of my affection for F1.
Fax

Anyone seen Martini?
Fax

Back of the top shelf, next to the Campari and Creme de Menthe!!  ;D

Well hello dear Fax, I am indeed here. Somewhat held up and unfortunatenly not answering your rendition as quickly is I would have wished.

  I must, rather humbly, agree with your previous statement, and would like to take this opportunity to thank you for a most educating volume of information. This indeed was a statement of true worth, as were your previous statements, indeed tour knowledge is of a most immaculate condition. (read envy) Nordic was totally correct in his post. I unfortunately have a blank for all the bad times as there are so many and, unfortunately, can only remember some of the better races. Quite honestly not as may as you and Nordic, or indeed I am sure many others.

I perhaps liken it to music where I do not listen to the words but just the sound as an entity.

As for your comment JPC

'Back of the top shelf, next to the Campari and Creme de Menthe!!'

A. Campari is a rather refreshing pre dinner drink.

B. I have actually raced a gainst JH and not just stood next to him.

Humbly yours... and may LM live on

Martin...

May i inquire as to to what this race may have been ???

I really do beleive, dear fellow, LIFE.

M...

Whew!  Glad your still with us Martin.  Always get a little worried when I go on a full blown Senna/Schumacher/Mansell tirade that I'm really offending someone.
I just call them as I see them.
Fax

Wish i hadnt asked now ::)

Hi

Suitably admonished and well educated. Fax, there is nothing to be be shy about you, as does Nordic, have the knowledge. I, as previously stated, forget all the stats but that is another story, thankyou Dr Smirnoff.

Garystout, welcome to this topic. Scroll back a bit and check the bollxcking I got - phew.

Is it Pimms o' clock??

Excellent,
We'll have to debate the pros & cons of Mr. Senna, Mansell, Schumacher, etc. over a few cold ones at the champers stand this year.
Fax

One was John Hindhaugh and the other was Henry Hope-Frost, both appear on Radio Le Mans every year.

I agree the coverage was way over the top on Motors, I got fed up with how many time he said 'real racing cars being driven by real drivers' whenever there was a slidle I thought he was going to explode with excitement.

As a race I thought it was ok, a bit like Masters golf or 'Pro Tennis'. watchable but the real thing is much better imho.

btw even the cars where old. Reynard indy cars with widened cockpits and some aero changes.