Club Arnage

As many of you may already be aware there have been bombs go off in London on the Tubes again.

It is not yet know of the severity but the London Police are not treating the siuation as serious. Emergency plans have been put into action.

Hope all are safe and well.

Lets hope this will all stop soon!

Sorry to hear that. Good news reports that there are no casualties. I hope they catch these f***ers.

I copy that, Rick :(

It seems that none of the bombs exploded in the horrfic way intended.

2 People have been picked up by Police, the search contines for others.

Hopefully armed with the new info from the UXB's the police will be able to round up the ringleaders.

I'd prefer to string 'em up...

Seems very few casualties this time, thank god.

Excuse me if I offend.

I THINK WE SHOULD KILL THEM ALL AND THEN LET GOD SORT THEM OUT !!!

I admire how the authorities and the people are handling this.  I hope we are taking lessons here in the US.

I think the way to handle these ignoramuses is having public execution in Trafalgor Square PRECEDED BY SMEARING PIG S**T ALL OVER THEM PRIOR TO THE EXECUTION THAT IS BROADCAST ON AL JEZZERRA!!!!!!   Do this everytime one of these muderers is caught until somebody of that persuasion realizes this is not a cool way to die.

Sorry if I upset you Smokie and you cut me off with my ranting but I don't think we have learned how to really deal with this stuff.

Did anyone see the TV coverage last night?

With Shepheards Bush Green closed to all traffic, disruption on all local routes, no buses running through the Green and hardly any tubes, what did the residents of the Green do............?

Get their big sound systems out, fire up the BBQ's, knock the tops off a few bottles and have a great big street party.

Good stuff!!!

Didn't the Russians do a similar thing a few years back?  I believe they buried the terrorists wrapped in a pig skin and havn't had any trouble since.  A good idea to use here but we are too PC in this country to do anything as contravercial as that even if it may have the desired outcome.

Surely this would just bel like poking a wasp's nest with a sharp stick? No, we need something a bit more subtle. It's time some people "disappeared".

I understand there has been a shooting incident or something on the tube today. Let's hope it was the security services doing the shooting.

The fightback begins.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

In my humble dutch opinion, I think we should do the same as in Israel, retaliate by killing their families, have them watch that, imprison them for life with only the bible and the Tora to read! Oh yeah and give them a TV set which only broadcasts live pictures of our prime minister (Jan Peter Potter). That´ll teach ´m

I would guess that harming them or their families would not truly help anybody. I suspect this second lot are just a bunch of dickheads emulating & hanging on the back of the horrific events of 2 weeks ago.

My question is why are the security services not doing their jobs?? The emergency services on the streets are putting in some sterling efforts (as always) but they are always on the back-foot.

Oh & also...why do they hate us so much?? Maybe we ought to work on being more honest with other people in the world, the outspoken Ken Livingstone was spot on with what he said earlier this week.

Just my opinion... :)

Good idea !

Chris, have you been reading the sodding Guardian again?

Firstly, it seems self evident that this is not just a bunch of dickhead opportunists. Where would such people get detonators from? No, clearly these brainwashed foot-soldiers have been well organised from above.
The security services have a very difficult, nay impossible longterm job. They are not allowed telephone encryption or phone tapping. Also you do not know how many attacks they have prevented and yet get no credit for. Your question should be better directed at HM Govt. If you've got any better ideas, then I'm sure Charles Clarke would be pleased to hear from you.


Finally, IMHO Livingstone is a total hypocritical tw at. He floods London with God knows who and then bleats when his great social experiment blows up in his (or more accurately, Londoner's) faces. His crocodile tears made me utterly sick last week. The reason the fundamentalists hate us is a combination of jealousy and frustration. It has bugger all to do with Iraq or Afghanistan(convenient excuse tho it is). No, it's to do with an inbred hatred of the West and all it stands for. These people hate our liberty, our lifestyles, our Godlessness, our wealth, our ingenuity, in short, our sucess. They base their lives on a literal interpretation of a 15th century credo and are frustrated when it proves incompatible with the modern world. So, without the Christian peoples all converting to Islam, there's probably little we can do other than keep our eyes peeled and report suspicious activity to the authorities.

While I am in agreement with many of the comments above (well said Andy!) can posters please ensure that comments could not be interpreted in such a way as to bring this web site into conflict with the law. This includes racial/sexual/religious discrimination, incitement. I am all for free speech but within the laws of the land.

Please also be conscious that we may have innocent members who are part of the groups being held responsible for these atrocities and I don't want to offend any of our readers!

As before, suspect posts will be deleted without warning or apology.

Not since this morning Andy, no!! ;) I've been too busy doing my pre-season training for Newcastle?!? (I hope you remember that discussion cos I was as drunk as a lord & have vague memories still!!)

...

I agree the bloke is far from a saint (closer to a sinner really??) & there's been plenty of times I'd like to see him out of public life, but I happen to agree with him on this one.
It's not entirely about the wars, but some of the problem stems from our input in many areas of the world stretching back over the last hundred years (quite possibly more) that we sometimes never hear of. Granted they hate what we have & the fact that they don't have it, but when our rich corporations & their shareholders are making record profits from oil which was obtained from their country & they don't even have running water it would kinda pi*s you off wouldn't it??
It is certainly a minority that suffer from these delusions & you'll always get animosity from someone anywhere in the world. It is sad that it's the general public who suffer most when these awful events take place & our thoughts always go to those who suffer the pain that is caused.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, but I look forward to your articulate reply!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

Holy sh*t. They shot the wrong guy.

Makes me wonder why any innocent person would run away from armed police though ???

Im going to add my (proabably worthless) and unashamedly biased view on that one.

The facts as I understand them are that the guy RAN away from armed police having been asked to stop 5 times. He was acting suspiciously, he looked to be carrying something suspicious around his stomach and on his back.

We are on HIGH ALERT. Anyone who doesn't understand that following the last couple of weeks needs thier head examined.

When on high alert, if you are told to stop by a man with a gun, you fecking well stop....

Its a split second decision, the police wouldnt have shot without a genuine reason to suspect the guy, and as I say, this country is on high alert.

My opinion is that the police did a good job yesterday - i'd rather have 1 innocent person shot, than face the possibility of genuine terror and the loss of completely innocent life.....

Maybe this was the best way of demonstrating to everyone that we are not F***ing around here - stop when you're told to, and then only people with genuinely evil intentions will get hurt.

Look after yourselfs and stick together guys - the world feels like its gone a little crazy just at the moment.

Brad

Totally agree with you Brad. We, as a country are at war with these terrorists and unfortunatly war produces innocent casualties and this guy was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He should have stopped when challenged, why he didn't God only knows. But it sure gives out a stong message to the bombers, f**k with us and you die.

That's all very well, and I totally agree with you - as long as it's someone else's loved one who is the innocent victim.

I am usually completely supportive of the police but the eyewitness accounts from Friday indicate that although there was a lot of signs that he was trying to evade arrest, IMO the police could have "contained" him (well, they pretty much already had) without unloading a gun into him at close range.

Have you seen some of the plain clothes police? If I didn't fully understand the local language, I'd run from them too!!

It's a tricky one...

Hmmmm, i think the word STOP POLICE is pretty universal i think ???

The guy came from the slums of Sao Paulo, where the police have a different approach to the normal UK one, I don't think you do always stop for the police there.

Who knows why he ran, he may have heard the shout, but as he was being pursured by a large group he may well of thought they where the ones being told to stop. I am sure the cop that shoot him is having a few a few sleepless nights.

Whatever the ins and outs, The Police have admitted a mistake of id happened but restated the shoot to kill policy remains for the moment, which on balance is the only way to deal with a potential bomber and therefore IMHO correct.

In the good old days of the British Raj, terrorists used to be executed by being tied across the muzzle of a field gun, which was then fired!  I think the Royal Horse Artillery would be up for that, they must get fed up with just firing blanks all the time!?

But I really like the Shepherds Bush street party idea - why not have a Club Arnarge f**k the bombers party at the Argylle?

Pastis - see the other thread "London De Brief". I'll bump it onto P1

Shoebomber Sentenced

Re: guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe
This guy was on an American Airlines 767
Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and
tried to light it?
Did you know his trial is over?
Did you know he was sentenced?
Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV/Radio?
Didn't think so.
Everyone should hear what the judge had to say.  Ruling by Judge William
Young, US District Court.  Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say.

His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid
also admitted his "allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah,"defiantly stated "I think I will not apologize for my actions," and told the court "I am at war with your country."

Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:
January 30, 2003, United States vs. Reid. Judge Young: "Mr. Richard C. Reid,
hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.  On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General.
On counts 2, 3, 4 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each
count, the sentence on each count to run consecutive with the other. That's 80 years. On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years consecutive to the 80 years just imposed.  The court imposes upon you each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 for the aggregate fine of $2 million.  The Court accepts the government's recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to Andre
Bousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.

The Court imposes upon you the $800 special assessment. The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it.  But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.  This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes.  It is a fair and just sentence.  It is a righteous sentence.

Let me explain this to you.  We are not afraid of you or any of your
terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid.  We are Americans.  We have been through the fire before.  There is all too much war talk here and I say that to everyone with the utmost respect.
 
Here in this court, we deal with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals.  As human beings, we reach out for justice. You are not an enemy combatant.  You are a terrorist.  You are not a soldier in any war.  You are a terrorist.
 
To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether it is the officers of government who do it or your attorney
who does it, or if you think you are a soldier, you are not--you are a
terrorist.  And we do not negotiate with terrorists.  We do not meet with terrorists.  We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice. So war talk is way out of line in this court.

You are a big fellow. But you are not that big.  You're no warrior.  I've
know warriors.  You are a terrorist.  A species of criminal that is guilty of multiple attempted murders. 

In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and where the TV crews were, and he said: "You're no big deal." You are no big deal.

What your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific.  What was it that led you here to this courtroom today?
 
I have listened respectfully to what you have to say.  And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing.  And I have
an answer for you.
 
It may not satisfy you, but as search this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know. It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious. You hate our freedom.  Our individual freedom.  Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose.  Here, in this society, the very wind carries freedom.  It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom.

So that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely.  It is for freedom's sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf and have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you before other judges.

We Americans are all about freedom.  Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though.  It is yet true that we will bare any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms.
 
Look around this courtroom. Mark it well.  The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here.  Day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure.  Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done.

 The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.

See that flag, Mr. Reid?  That's the flag of the United States of America
That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom.  And it always will. Mr. Custody Officer.  Stand him down.

God bless freedom loving people everywhere!!!!!!

Word on the news here is that he was an illegal immigrant (his visa had expired), so may have been fearful of deportation. Also claims he was an electrician and had all manner of wire and sh*t on his person, which may have caused some alarm to already antsy LEO's.
It's tragic that an innocent get's wasted - but in the circumstances, ignoring the commands of the police are going to get you taken down, everyone must realise this.

Its worth pointing out that the police doing the chasing. thought that the guy had a bomb straped to himself, yet they carried on to the point of getting close enough to take him down.

How many of the people complaining today and calling the police murderers would chase, let alone pile onto someone they thought might have bomb in an effort to protect others?

The man, according to his family, spoke fluent English and was able to understand everything that was said to him.  That was not a problem.

My nephews, with whom I have travelled frequently, have been drilled with the idea that you obey the cops, never sass border guards (even by making taunting remarks about how your hockey team just demolished theirs), and stop when anyone with a gun says STOP.  Although one of them is still (at age 19) inclined to think remarks like "Oh, you mean BESIDES this grenade in my shorts?" are funny, I think they got the point by the time they were ten years old.

I do wonder why the man in question was allowed to board a bus, though, if the cops thought he was that dangerous.  And if he knew people were chasing him, why didn't he head right for a police station? 

I dont mean to offend anyone.  Its just a bit to close to home!

I think that the Police, HEMS, the ambulance service, the hospitals, the authorities and London as a whole is doing a sterling job of getting through this rather dangerous and difficult time.  I do wonder though, how many people who are saying that the police shot an innocent man, would act if that so called innocent, but running away man, had gone ahead and blown up another tube! Exactly everyone would ask why didnt the police do something as some people have already asked! The Police have 2 seconds to make a decision and lets get behind them and if they see fit to shoot, lets back them, lets face it, they have more info than we do! 

A friend of mine was on the next carriage to the guy whose bomb didnt go off last week and watched the guy smouldering before he ran off! He spent some 5 hours with special branch helping them to piece together what happened as he has a good deal of knowledge about this sort of thing being in a section of the Marines. And he is just glad that it didnt go off! As we all are.  He does say though that if he could got to him, he would ripped his bl**dy head off! Bomb or no bomb! The intent was there and that was a good enough reason to act!
I hope no one takes offence and certianly not meant to stir but please lets get behind those who are doing a good job and who have to make those decisions that lets face it we wouldn't want to make either.  Thats my piece for what its worth!

Your spot on Nordic - they should be given a medal for bravery, yes its tragic and If it was my next of kin it would destroy my world, but maybe his relatives will, one day, understand that the Police were reacting in the only way possible. To pursue and jump on him with the belief that he was a suicide bomber that intended to harm as many poeple as possible was an incredibly brave thing to do.

In view of the arrests on the train from Newcastle, may I remind everyone that its Thursday tomorrow, and the lunatics may be out again, hopefully in reduced number.

Take care, we want to see you all next June

Been looking after a friends dog here in the south of france while he went back to the UK for 2 weeks, that was 7 weeks ago now with no word, just learnt by email today that he was on the Kings cross train when a bomb went off and put him in hospital, he's ok now and returning soon , just goes to show the far reaching effects of events like these >:(

Good news that your friend is ok Gary. That must have seemed one hell of a long 7 weeks with no news.

Unfortunately the joke with the locals was that he had left the dog with us for good, before we knew the proper story

Seven weeks? On the basis that the bombs were three weeks ago and he left the dog with you for two weeks some seven weeks ago, I would still be suspicious as to his original intentions vis a vis returning to collect the dog.  ;)

Glad to see they caught one of the bombers last night. Luckily they were sh**t terrorists and couldn't blow up a balloon at a party even if Osama Bin Laden really wanted an inflatable giraffe.

It's especially brave considering the nature of the explosive they seem to be using.  TATP or acetone peroxide is EXTREMELY unstable, a  sharp blow or friction can be enough to set it off.

Worth remembering for any CA'ers in a heat of the moment 'have a go' mood (lots of people chased one of the attempted bombers a couple of weeks back), D'ONT attempt a rugby tackle!