Club Arnage

I guess all early visitors of one of the greatest campsites of Le Mans had some sort of interferance of officials of the ACO. And yes, most of our campsites were too large. But definitely not all. And from what I saw we sorted it out ourselves.
But that was after I saw the officials were making allocated sited only at the beginning of the site. Will that be the future of Maison Blanche? Have we ruined it for ourselves or has the ACO been too greedy selling more tickets? How can we find out, and -more important- when will we find out?

Personally I think it wil ruin the way MB is set up, especially when they will start numbering :-[



By the way; What peeved me off a little in the beginning is that all early visitors had to pay extra - as long as they were English. They simply skipped our place on Monday and Tuesday and smiled and waved friendly as they got on to the next English neigbor. Weird. :-\

I'd agree Paddy - the ACO Space Inspectors were around a lot early in the week and although they weren't able to make anyone reduce their pitch size, I think that they may well look at ways of stopping people "reserving" space next year, and also they might do more to mark out spaces prior to our arrival (instead of on the Tuesday after people have arrived!).

I didn't get charged anything extra either... :)

We arrived on Monday morning and didn't get a visit from the size police and weren't asked to pay extra although we expected to have to!

I heard a rumour (whilst in the ACO office) that MB would be ALL marked pitches next year!!!

I feel that this would be a little difficult for some pitches as some of the ground (inside JPC's compound) was harder than the tarmac road.  Having said that, it has been like that on Expo for years and it hasn't bothered the ACO.

DB

How much space was actually left at the less desirable far end - was there any at all?- I had meant to walk down to take a look - but there was always something more important to do.

I did a walk around the campsite on thursday, by that time it was more or less full exept for the graveltrap near the entrance.

After the sizepatrol came to argue the graveltrap was also full.

We invested in some stakes and site tape to put around our "camp" this year.  We also took the bus to town on Friday for the Parade.

Last year we drove to town and when we came back, some newbies had camped and put their cars on our parking spots  >:(

The people around me had to pay extra, that's why I presumed they skipped us on purpose ::)

Paddy, may I say what great job you did with the camp, I hope for your sake that it does not go alloted. Or you will be back in BSJ again!!!

Yep we got charged the extra and it seamed to be due to one of use knowing French, it seams if you just say "No idea what your taking about mate i'm English" then they give up.  We tried to be nice and got charged for it.  
I don't mind paying if all have to pay but you can't just charge some and not others!  >:(

I can't see them making more money if they section it all off, a lot of people will just move elsewhere.

If the ACO specify the size of the pitch in advance, and one permit allows one pitch, then what is the problem. Simply buy the correct amount of permits for the pitch size you require. I guess this may even work out cheaper for some?

Well, like I said, the fear is that those places will get numbers. And then you get pitches which are not next to eachother, and who will get trackside? :-\

After hearing now what has happened to the Liverpool Boys on their way home this type of comment gets me very upset.

MB, the same as many campsites for the duration of the infamous 24 is about people devoted to Le Mans as they have been for many many years.

Have you bothered to notice what efforts groups like the Liverpool Boys, Beermountain, JP Chenet....to name but a few, make to their pitches in order to envoke frivolity amongst those that they know and those they don't?

If numbered pitches came into being on MB it would ruin the whole ethos of the site I fear.

All good things come to an end but only after some half wit has complained to the ACO.

It is not about cost - nobody is trying to cheat the ACO or other Le Mans enthusiasts - groups like the Liverpool Boys spend lots of time and energy in getting things just right on their site in order to entertain various visiting parties.

I watched the Le Mans film at Team Drinking Hollands site, which was opposite the Liverpool Boys on the Friday night. We were offered drinks and made very welcome - this would not happen if MB was changed.

Please do not make complaints to the ACO. It would be such a travisty to lose the spriit of what is MB.

RS2 Babe (serious head on-so sorry)
 :-* :-* :-*

 

Marked out pitches were romoured to be 7m x 5m which would mean that you should just be able to get on a pitch a

MINI
TENT

and if you are lucky a small gazzebo.

For those of you that saw us we had three passes and think that the room was used OK. We can also say in future that between the Drinking for Holland/Cutlers/SPS we had about 30 passes!!

If the size was limited to 7m x 5m then the only other is start to build up, who took the scaffolding this year?

The ACO should leave it as it is, I did not get there this year, but last year it all came together. If you turned up late then space was limited, but thats part of the fun.

As long as all you MB sardines don't decide to decamp to Houx Annexe.  ;D

I'll second that

We arrived thursday lunchtime and had to go in the second field but there was plenty of space. The only downer was the lack of power and water. It was full by thursday night though and people arriving friday had no chance.

If those people start complaining to the ACO that's when we'll get problems. If people want to go down early and set up a decent camp what's wrong with that. If you want reserved space go on Houx.

We only had a long lecture from the size police when we went in, but were forced to pay for the too extra days at the booth.  

This stopped the traffic going in and on tuesday, whilst stuck behind a car buying the extra ticket, some local couldn't be bothered to brake and ran into the car behind me.

MB was as packed as I've ever seen it.  We were next to the road, with our cars parked on the grass, and got double parked.  I suspect the problem is that ther are no roads to the back, as any gaps get filled with tents.

And they used to have marker stones and white lines, but the stones were used as hearths and the lines get mowed out.

With marked pitches we could plan better and would have had room for a pool (we lost our pool space of course), but where do the cars go

On here  :)

(http://www.lynxmotors.co.uk/grafix/trans.jpg)

I met one crew who had Karting Nord  and saw several other cars in BSJ with KN or MB passes and they had to use BSJ as there was no space left in the booked site.

BSJ was full too by Sat morning people being told to use the woods.

t.

Errr, yes  :-[

We did get a little over zealous with our pitch this year and fully admit that our calculations were a little off as to the size of pitch we would require.

We did get a visit from the "space police" who were politley informed that there were a number of cars out-and-about and that the ground we were camping on was "not fit for purpose" at which they hoisted up their petty coats and moved away muttering something about british pork ;)

Here's hoping that the ACO see reason and leave MB as is. Like many have said before me, we will never see the likes of the Liverpool Boys, Beermountain and Drinking for Holland's sites ever again if they dont.

Would it be worth starting a petition?

It's amazing how we can pretend not to understand them the same way they pretend not to understand us. Funny, they didn't like it either!

I believe the porsche curves viewing area was also being used as an overflow. We think the ACO just kept printing BSJ tickets until there was no space left.

However. BSJ was no where near as crowded as Karting Nord last year, and as a result there was a lot less frayed tempers. All disputes were resolved like adults, without the threat of violence.

They didn't understand as you were talking bribble by that point  ;D ;D

I think the ACO are on a real looser with this one.

If an individual turns up on a Bike  and  only has a two man tent they pay the same as a team turning up in a minibus with say eight people and two four man tents with a Gazebo or two and a pool.  IMHO that is not really fair.  

Perhaps what they should do is charge a supplement for additional space.

Your advance party turn up in one car and reserve space for say six cars.  So they pay for the five other cars.  When the cars turn up so they get the deposit refunded.

The current good will of only using the space of Xm by Xm is breaking down like many other things around the place.

The Danes seem to manage to cordon off vast areas of KN and BSJ. I wonder how much they pay.  Of course the tents are very tightly packed.  But if they just pay for the Artics and Coaches they can't really complain about private groups doing the same.

t.

Maison Blanche NIMBY's!
I think you'll find that the ACO have a fairly good handle on this - they know how many tickets they've sold and they probably have a pretty good idea about how many cars/vans/tents should fit on the site.
When some folks show up nice and early and set up gargantuan encampments, the whole calculation goes piss-shaped. I never fully got my head around big, roped-off areas that were suddenly out-of bounds. I've also had several unnecessary conversations with people who've all but accused me of trespass on 'thier' property, because I've cut through on the way to the thunder box etc.
With a marked plot, there are no arguments. I've stayed at every site at Le Mans, bar Karting Nord and Beausejour. Houx (being the biggest) is the best organised and the least liable to confrontation.
I would be narked if I'd paid for my space on MB only to find I couldn't get on it because of the mini-metropolis set up by the early arrivals.
One final observation, regarding language. Is it not fair to assume that the officials will be speaking in French? Ridiculing them because they communicate in their own language - in their own country, is probably why they appear so unco-operative at times.

I think you'll find that this year the only large encampments were JPC and DFH and in my opinion, neither were grossly oversized. DFH, for example, were massive but with only a small footprint, while JPC had over thirty people on site and all of them arrived by wednesday. If the ACO continue to sell tickets based on 1 per vehicle then you can't have any argument if the vehicles carry 5+ people and take up a proportionate amount of room.

I didn't see any other oversized camps yet by thursday night the whole of the second field was full and friday arrivals were either driving around for ages or reduced to double parking. We let a couple of late arrivals onto the edge of our camp but otherwise it was rammed so don't go talking bollocks about the ACO knowing exactly what space they have - as has been previously testified they hardly even checked tickets were stuck on so god knows how many unticketed people got in.

I ve been reading this thread a while, I think your spot on Matt, I would have been very pissed off if  I had been turned away from MB on friday, I'm sorry Team JPC, but you maintained too much empty space all weekend, it will not need people to complain, the size police must have taken their defeat in recovering some space under alot of pressure very hard. They came around to SPS and DFH on a mission but soon realised that actually we were very compact for the number passes we had. We all pay the same, if we cant work it out between ourselves fairly, then we open up the excuse for allocated pitches. Shame really, with hindsight, a better strategy would have been to work with them.

As someone said before, instead of having the one ticket per car-policy it would indeed be much wiser to clearly specify a number of square metres per ticket. It is not that the large groups deliberately cheat with the amount of space they used. When I asked some of the groups what budget they were on.. well.. 4 or 8 or 12 extra campingtickets won't make that much of a financial difference.

I spend around 600 Euro's for a week in Le Mans. That included a rental car + petrol, a general admission ticket and my part of the DFH-happening. A 100 Euro's extra for a campingticket really is not much of a problem in that case. I doubt it would be a problem for anyone on the DFH-site.

A clearer policy would help a lot.

In his defence, apparently JPC did have space reserved for my team but as he was in his usual coma when I arrived I was unable to verify this and so trundled off to the second field.

Due to the current ACO camping structure it is possible for two minibuses to turn up with two passes and thirty four people and probably take up the equivalent space of at least ten cars. If they continue to charge by the vehicle only and don't regulate passengers then these problems will only get worse.

Wonder how many walk on to MB (and other sites for the matter) and camp. I don't think many do but even so, they don't pay anything.

IMHO Charging by the Square Meter would be the  way to go.  

When I've used Houx or the old Tribunes site with marked out and numbered place I found the space adequate for 6 people in that you could get a four man and a two man tent on to the plot and have room for a car and spce tor a BBQ.
Of course there was not room for a pool and all the other things one needs these days.  
But I for one would happily pay for a second plot to take all that sort of thing.

The prices the ACO charge are reasonable and I really don't think anyone object to paying for the space they use rather than the Car park free which is kinda what they do right now.

I don't think many people walk on as such though I guess Johnevens and the other guys who arrive via TGV are walk ons.   But that is offset by the compact way people use the Sites.  When you have six cars in a group  you tend to park all the cars in one area all the tents in another and have all the open space in one place so it looks like you have a lot of space but infact you are probably not using your full allowance so to speak.

I noticed on BSJ they had tried to mark out  how they planed we should utilize the space  but it was unclear as to what the marks ment and so best use was not made of the space available.

 t.

We openly admit that Team JPC's site was a bit oversize, our calculations being slightly generous. Measures have already been put into place to prevent this from happening next year.

However, I would like to point out that we were saving space for others, there were indeed 30+ members on the pitch not to mention Team Zarse, Del Boy & Robspot a grand total of about 45 people. Although unfortunatley this didn't quite happen. Sorry bout that Robspot  :-[

I would also like to make the point that as soon as we knew that we had more than enough space, anyone requesting to camp in the space was made more than welcome, we even fed and watered some of them.

Lastly I would like to mention that the ground in our patch (in places) was harder than the bl**dy road! we had drills on the go and STILL couldn't get pegs into the ground. I think the term the ACO is looking for is "fit for purpose" We therefore used this ground as parking.

As I've said. All measures are being put in place so that we dont overestimate our requirements next year.

Gazza

We also offered SPS for some of their cars to come over to the unusable hard ground to free some space in their own area but the offer wasn't taken up!!!

Also, if you consider the fact that WE had 10 vehicles (excluding Delboy, Team Zarse, the Fench Family, the guys with the American car and the two girls who pitched up), at 7m x 5m thats the equivalent of 350 square metres. Of actual "useable" space, i.e. excluding the rock hard stoney area, I actually think we were within that sort of area!  That said, as Gazza states, plans are already afoot for next year.

DfH was absolutely a bit overdone with the space we took up. But when I'm correct, Paddy already ordered 8 cards for next years event, so it will be more leveled next year. ;) On the other hand, we had 4 cards, which means 140 square meters, as 10 meters long, and 14 meters wide. I don't think we were that much bigger as that...

Oh dear.  I'm glad we were on HA  ::)

Last year when I was with the Other Entourage, the French did try to charge us extra per tent, rather than per car; we talked them out of it, but it's not actually a bad idea.  Maybe they could charge a flat rate for one vehicle and up to a certain number (4?) of people, and then a supplement for more people/tents?

My own concern was the fact that they were letting people in (either de facto or de jure) well before they were prepared to open the sanitary facilities, and with something like 500 people on the site by Monday afternoon, it's no wonder there was an epidemic of intestinal nature -- and I would not be surprised if eventually they have an outbreak of cholera if they keep it up.  I realize that this may be their obstinate refusal to give in to the people who arrive earlier than the ACO want them there, but if they are not going to turf the early people out -- and in fact if they are letting people in on Monday -- then common sense would require that the sanitary facilities be available when the number of people on site reaches critical mass.  I don't know what the law is in France, but in most countries a place that invites an international epidemic would be cited by the Health Department at the least!

I would hate to see them wait to have to cope with a tragedy before they do anything constructive -- but with the number of people crowding in every year, both the current unrestricted fireworks policy and the lack of proper sanitation are tragedies in waiting.  What will happen when one of those flares lands on a tent that is in the middle of a compound where many of the people are too drunk to know their campsite is afire?

I do think everyone does his or her best to keep things nice for everyone, but attention must be paid in a village that size, to common sense safety measures, I think.

Just to throw my hat in on this, I have to say I don't believe that the JPC area was overly big. As already stated there were 30 of us, plus team zarse, delboy etc.. in the area.

When you look at the average carload, it is usually at least two-three tents a gazzebo (sp?), car and bbq. The gazzebo's that we used were big but when divided up amongst the 10 cars on site then I am sure the per car foot print would not have been much more than the average pitch.

Anyway to be honest it's been, it's gone, I had a bl**dy good time and can't wait til next year, what ever they decide I'll be back for more (can't let the fatlad get more stars than me can I  ;))

The ACO's method of pricing is all wrong - you pay the same for a person on a motorbike as you do for a bus. Our group consisted this year of 38 people and all were in 2 seater cars or motorbikes.

We therefore had 22 camping passes and the size of our pitch was far smaller than either CA or DFH!

You've lost me there Kate!
How is there going to be a cholera outbreak because there are no toilet facilities? Surely all it means is that people are going to have to walk further to take a dump. Unless the campers start mixing sewage with drinking water (and I don't think even the Dutch were doing that) then how is the infection going to spread? Ok, it's inconvenient, but that's about as far as it goes. Mind you, I could have misread your post, and you're suggesting that one of the more demolition standard fireworks could land and explode in the nearest latrine. Now that would get people moving.

JPC, where did you buy that calculator? 350 square metres is a pitch about 19m by 19m....

Where were you H? I kept dropping by the jag but you were never there and no sign at the poo bar either.

The bogs at the top of MB were stinking like the Emporer Ming from the Planet Pong for the first few days and even after that they were'nt to hot. After a heavy session at JP's on monday night, I could'nt  have a shower on the Tuesday morning due to the fact I would have spewed due to the smell. Honking absolutely Honking. Also whilst on the soap box, the shower/ shitter people ratio surely wants looked at especially as the ACO are chipping away for more money for extra nights etc. I do realise that there were a couple of extra showers this year at the Golden Triangle but come on lads, obviously not enough.

The JPC pitch was possibly over-generous, but at only about 60 square metres per person it wasn't unreasonable  ;).

Didn't need to worry about a shower on Friday after all the bloody licking from you Stu on Thursday  :-\  on second thoughts maybe this was more of a reason to have a shower  ;)

Wotcher Rob,
Sorry I missed you, to be honest mate, I had quite a confusing weekend, maybe it was the cholera. We made it to the champagne bar about tennish and grabbed a spot near where we were last year and got stuck into a few bottles. After an hour or so I realised we hadn't seen any CA shirts so went on a scout around and found team Zarse and maybe TomDG round the corner, but that was about it. Timing all wrong again...
On the subject of sewage and all things emetic, if the ACO crowd everyone into 7by5 pitches then perhaps we'll need to extend upwards, and as the song goes, s**t on the rabble below.

Not having a shower for a few days is not necessarily a health hazard. People throughout the world go weeks and months without. It is only us in our pampered western civilisation who demand such un-natural luxuries. Some years ago I spent seven days in a jungle in Thailand without once so much as brushing my teeth. You get used to the smell. It was nice to jump into a cold river at the end, although I was a slightly worried one of them little parasitic fish was going to swim up my cock. I was similarly concerned whilst being in JPC's swimming pool.

Carrefour!!!!   ;)

I doub't that its actually that many true walk ons - ie Loners with no invite to an encampment.

And none of them will take pools or Gazebos! I did take a travel rug this year though.

It's great value though for those prepared to do it.

I think the extra advertising the ACO did this year must have had an effect on the numbers.

As to using the Porsche Curves area as an overflow for BSG, this could be made a proper site with a toilet block and it would be superb as the viewing is great and walking distance to Arnage! I don't think I'd bother walking to the circuit village as there seemed to be little of interest this year.

There was in fact mixing of sewage with drinking water, not to mention food preparation, because the sewage was being deposited here, there and everywhere before the toilet block was opened, and it was being tracked back to the campsites, including where people were washing, cooking and eating.  That's how people started spreading the intestinal disorder around, and that's how you get epidemics.

Where we were in KN people were firing off flares, and not looking out for where they were going to land either.  And some people were firing roman candles AT tents and through campsites -- it seems likely that one of these days this is going to start a fire in a campsite and people will get hurt.

Where did that happen Kate???

I must add, I've never trusted the water from the standpipes anyway and we only use it for washing up and showering. We use bottled water for drinking and cooking.

I'm not sure, but as far as I know we made our coffee with it...

And I'm still alive *cough cough*

Wuss  ::)

(http://www.victorianweb.org/images/cholera.gif)