Club Arnage

May I be the first on here to congratulate our very own Dan Wheldon on his excellent Indianapolis 500 victory.

Milk never tasted so good. But I bet they are drinking something else in large quantities in Emberton tonight.

What a great race, looked for a while like Danica Patrick was actually going to pull off the win, but lack of fuel meant she couldn't run it full rich at the end and she finished 4th ! But she became the first lady to ever lead the Indy 500. :)

Dan in Victory Lane :)

Dan

Not sure who Dan is, but well done anyway !  :D  He is a bit of a cutie.

F

My german isnt too good, but doesnt "klein" mean small? - unfortunate sponsor placement!!  8)

well above the waistline fran dearest, try NOT to worry

 ;)



see me later if you have a problem

Dan comes from Emberton, Buckinghamshire, England, so i imagine that the Jim Beam is flowing there alot tonight.

In fact I think I will go and pour a glass myself !

This ones for you Dan !

Job well done,he stayed near the front all day.He now lives here in
St.Petersburg,Fl.Maybe I can track him down and have a Jim Beam
and ginger ale.

TEAM CENTRIX DRIVER JUNQUEIRA TO HAVE SURGERY AFTER SPINAL INJURY DUE TO CONTACT; BOURDAIS FINISHED 12TH AFTER CONTACT WITH 1.5 LAPS TO GO IN INDY 500 WHILE FIFTH

Carl Haas, Co-Owner of Newman/Haas Racing: "Today's incident was very unfortunate. Bruno had been running an excellent race and he was very happy with the performance of the racecar. He was running in sixth place when on lap 77 there was contact made with the lapped car of A.J. Foyt IV. This is certainly not the way we had hoped to end the month of May, but Bruno is in the very capable hands of Dr. Terry Trammel and the medical team at Methodist Hospital. Thankfully, Bruno was conscious after the incident and the extent of his injuries and best course of treatment are still being determined."

Bruno Junqueira, No. 36 Team CENTRIX Honda/Panoz/Firestone: According to Dr. Henry Bock, IRL and IMS senior director of medical services: Bruno Junqueira has been diagnosed with a concussion and fractures of the T-12 and L-1 vertebras that will require surgery on Monday. He is stable and in fair condition at Methodist Hospital. Junqueira was unavailable for a statement.

Bruno lost the entire season and may be crippled for life, racing in a pointless race where he was rammed by a backmarker.  I hate oval racing.

Somehow I think the 500,000 in attendance and the many millions watching probably didn't find it pointless.  Unless you've been there you would likely be very surprised what a spectacle it is.  What absolutely perfect weather today!

As for Mr Wheldon - his Mrs, Amber, works at my hair salon here in Indy.  Needless to say she's a right dirty little strump.  I've been stalking her for years now!  

The only thing pointless with Indy, is the fact that Foyt still things that his grandson can drive a race car and keeps entering him.

He was the cause of the Junqueira crash.

A J, needs to wake up and smell the coffee, sack is grandson and give the ride to someone who actually has talent.

Well, I got back home last night at 1AM from the Indy 500 and had a great time.  It's not Le Mans but it is a spectacular event.  There was no doubt that Danica was the crowd favorite.  Sorry Danny Boy, she just looks better than you and had she had enought fuel she would have whipped your butt boy.   Oh, the might have beens!!!  As noted below on a press release, when she took the lead, there wasn't an occupied seat in the house.

INDIANAPOLIS - Danica Patrick barreled down the front straightaway, dipped toward the inside wall and surged past Dan Wheldon to claim the lead at the     Indianapolis 500. The fans — 300,000 or so — went into a frenzy. They were on their feet all the way around the massive, venerable track, yelling and waving caps in a stirring reminder of the days when drivers named Mario, A.J. and Emerson ruled this place. After a decade of strife and waning interest, the Indy 500 couldn't have asked for anything more.

Hope you folks across the pond had a chance to see it.  It was a great race for a change.

Hi John,

Yes i watched, and as a matter of fact the replay is on my tv as i type this.

I also taped it and hopefully someone at work is going to transfer it to DVd for me later this week, so I can keep a good copy of it.

I am wearing my signed Dan Wheldon t shirt today and the signed flag is hanging in my front window.

Didn't see any of it but full congrats to Dan, chatted with him a few years ago in Dave H's suite at IMS and seems like a really good bloke, and as Dave mentioned his girlfriend is a little stunner.  Personally I was getting a bit weary of hearing Danica's name, until she actually wins something she's still just another Sarah Fisher or Janet Guthrie.  The mainstream media like's to jump all over the latest girl racer du jour and just wears her name out.  As for Foyt's grandson, unfortunately this is going to remain a big problem with the IRL as long as the grids are mostly filled out with a bunch of no-hopers & rent-a-drivers.  Really there are just a handfull of guys in the IRL with any real talent and the rest are a 220 MPH accident waiting to happen. Eventually your going to get caught up in some guys brain fart while lapping him and thats what happened to Bruno.  Kate actually put it in pretty good perspective, Bruno could be facing the rest of his life as a cripple, for what?  I remember when James Hunt was offered a ride at Indy and declined it saying "I have a not unreasonable desire to leave this sport alive and inact"
Fax

Just a couple of personal observations on this topic.
To state that the Indy 500 is pointless is like saying Le Mans, The US Masters, Wimbledon Fortnight, The FA Cup Final, The Monaco GP, The Tour De France etc, etc are also without point. The Indy 500 is an awesome spectacle and has always been a blue ribband event, even when it was without championship status.
Bruno's crash was horrible and he was taken-out by a driver who is clearly not qualified to run in an event like this - but check out the list of drivers at Le Mans and you will find equally inept, but financially qualified participants. Nothing new here.
During the preamble to the 500, Gerry Punch interviewed Tony Kanaan and Dan Wheldon - and hardly gave Dan any mike-time at all - just fawning over Kanaan. Wheldon seemed a lot more confident than Tony, in my view. Good for him.
I was very impressed by Danika Patrick, aside from her under-yellow blunder which took out a potential race winner - but a forgivable rookie mistake. Over-hyped - yes, but she showed she had the mettle to finish 4th and that is some achievement.
Finally to John Evans - I'm envious of you buddy! Welcome to the exclusive club that is "Double Vision" (Indy/Le Mans in the same year). Did it several times in late 80's and early 90's. Dave H holds record for number of participations, but Fax, Ricardo and yours truly (and many others, I'm sure) welcome you!  

Dan made the front page of today's Thunderer. Link follows http://tinyurl.com/92eq5 but I think you need to register (Free)

Vary sad but true...I noticed Frank Mountain (made loadsa money from property) who was on 5th gear last year buying an old Schuey F1 car & more recently crashing his new MC12, raced in a 360 last year.
Now you cannot tell me that a guy who blatently bought his seat & has that little experience driving race cars at speed is anywhere near as safe as the majority of the field.
That said if it's what's needed to keep the money in the sport & keep the race going forever I'll reluctantly stop ranting :-X

I would also like to add my congrats to Dan, I was pleased to see him on the evening news on the BBC yesterday, about time the UK takes notice of our next motor racing champion (or have I spoke to soon?? hope not!!)

Yes rent-a-drivers have always been a part of endurance racing and are often the only way some teams can make it to an event, however racing at the sustained high speeds and close quarters of Indycar racing requires drivers who really know what the f**k they're doing and the IRL clearly has alot of guys out there who have no business being on the track.
Fax

 I meant "pointless" in the sense that Champ Car drivers get no points for racing there.  Not that the race itself had no point.  Sorry.

I don't think you should apologise  for stating your viewpoint, Kate.
I think there are a lot of people (particularly those whose feet are firmly in the ChampCar rather than IRL camp) who feel that the 500 is an aside - and that is their prerogative.
Given that Bruno is predominantly a ChampCar pilot, it could be asked, what was he doing at the Brickyard anyhow?
The Indy 500 is a downright dangerous undertaking. That's probably why the purse is so big. It is gladatorial motor racing that many find objectionable, unnecessary and reckless - and others find dramatic, scary and irresistable.
I've attended the race many times and I watched it on TV from flag to flag last Sunday. Unusually for open-wheel racing, there were oddities like overtaking, lead changes, drama on the track and in the pits, a truly gigantic crowd that were on their feet for most of the race and a deserving but slightly unexpected winner - and a near fairy-tale outcome for one rookie. I found it hugely entertaining, if a little gory, in the case of Bruno's hard hit.
I cannot say the same for pathetic BS that is F1

I realize that I've probably ruffled a few feathers with my opinion on this subject but I freely admit to being biased on the subject of the IRL.  I hold it in contempt largely because I vehemently despise Tony George.  He single handedly screwed up Indycar racing in a fashon that will take decades to repair, if ever.  All because he didn't get the attention he wanted at the CART winter meetings of 1994/95.  Being a complete spoiled twat he decided to pick up his ball and go home, poor little lad.  The sooner he and his drunk-ass mother fall off the face of the planet the better.  Both CART and the IRL will gush that they are healthy and that everything is going great.  The reality of the situation is far different.  Both of them outside of their blue ribband races (Indy for the IRL and Long Beach and Toronto for CART) struggle to draw 25,000 spectators and put together a grid of more than twenty cars.  Both series have horrendous TV ratings. For the Kentucky Speedway race they were basically giving away tickets if you bought a pack of Marlboros in an attempt to get butts in seats.  Most people don't realize the IRL is for the most the part being propped up by NASCAR.  Indycar racing is getting along by the skin of its teeth and that jerk-off Tony George is entirely to blame.
Fax

"I found it hugely entertaining, if a little gory, in the case of Bruno's hard hit."

I suppose you cheered when Michael Schumacher hit the wall and broke his leg, and were you "hugely entertained" when Dale Earnhardt Sr. broke his neck and died in a last lap smash?

I find the whole ethos of the "Big'Un" to be disgusting in that I don't think cheering when people are hurt or killed, so long as you are entertained, is something you ought be proud of.

I'm sure Bruno, lying in the hospital with his career on hold and possibly in ruins, and his back damaged for the rest of his life, would be comforted by the fact that you found his near-death experience "hugely entertaining."

well said. i feel exactly the same way, the only time a cheer should go up after a crash is after the driver has climbed out of the car unhurt as a 'relief cheer'

I was in a grandstand at Stowe corner when Schumacher hit the wall. Watching the replay on TV later that night Murrey Walker yelled in his inibitable way as the accident happened"The crowd is cheering and going wild". Well not where I was sitting they wern't. It suddenly went deathly quiet, the only cheer came when he was being carried away on a stretcher and he waved to let everyone (including his wife who was watching on TV) that he was OK.

What THE f**k are you on about?
Maybe I should have phrased this a little differently. I found the race hugely entertaining - despite his accident, which I thought was gory.
Another case of the written word being very easy to misinterpret. I meant no offense - you (understandably) misunderstood my sentiment.

 I thought i'd add my little contribution to this argument inside an argument.

I grew up watching motor racing during the early nineties - death wasnt a part of the sport for me, until Ayrton Senna crashed at Imola.

I was a wholehearted supporter of Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell during thier duels with Ayrton Senna , and at the time of his crash, it didnt actually look ALL that serious.  So I would like to share the fact that I cheered when Senna hit the wall, which makes me feel guilty now, but at the time my competitive side took over.  Now obviously my cheer turned to deep concern when Sennas car came to rest, but I've always felt a little bit guilty about that moment.

I was in a Grandstand at Abbey corner when Schumacher went off at Silverstone, and then initial "yey" VERY VERY quickly turned to concern, in fact, it was a case of "yeeeohmygodhe'snotgonnastop"

My point though is not that you should cheer when a driver hits the wall, but that you should not judge those that do cheer - sometimes, your reaction is quicker than what is going on in front of you and you wont always think that the worst can happen, in a sport that is constantly getting safer, but will never be truly safe....

Would motor racing be as popular a spectacle if the personal risk was removed? Maybe yes - after all, snooker always seemed to be a popular spectator 'sport' and involved very little risk of injury to the protagonists. Maybe not - if it's just a big version of Scalectrix.
Rightly or wrongly, there is and always has been a kind of macabre anticipation accompanying motor sport. It is noteworthy that the accident that befell Bruno Junqueira was aired more than 10 times during the race broadcast and at  least that number of times on subsequent motorsport and news broadcasts. The media seems to think that the viewer wants to see things like this.
I am a little queezy about death and destruction, personally. I unfortunately had the misfortune to witness the accidents that happened to Daryl Gwynn at Santa Pod, Stan Fox and Buddy Lazier at Indy and numerous bike racing horrors over the years. They were quite nauseating for the most part. Old footage of poor buggers in polo shirts and flat caps being hurled to their almost certain deaths from the cockpits of old Railtons and Napiers - with the commentator really making light of the whole affair - what was all that about?
Motor racing is risky. It's the domain of dare-devils and heros. That's why we like it - otherwise we'd be paying to sit beside the M25 and watch the traffic go by. (Come to think of it, the M25 can be a bit scary too).

I'm mr. rose tinted glasses & old school so I'll weigh in on this.  Its really quite amazing how aghast newer racing fans (who have followed the sport for fifteen years or less) get when some guy breaks his fricking leg like Schumacher did in a shunt.  For Christs sake its motor racing not tennis! Part of the premise of motor racing is driving cars at high speed for fucks sake! There should always be a element of risk invloved in the sport, its what separates it from the god-damn stick & ball games.  As Hemingway said "There are only three real sports, bullfighting, motor racing and mountain climbing, the rest are just games".  I'm not suggesting for a second that we go back to the days of cloth skull caps and cotton overalls, I was a ten year old sitting in the fourth turn at Indy in 1973 when Swede Savage crashed, a good friend of mine was a marshal at Watkins Glen the day Francois Cevert got sliced in two by the armco and I've seen the film of David Purley trying to overturn Roger Williamson's buring March more times than I care to think about.  However racing should be heroic and somehat dangerous.  The fact that its so safe now is the reason we get the juvenile on-track antics that we see today, even from established stars.  So many people fawn over the memory of Senna but don't remember what a jerk he was and how horribly he corrupted the racers ethic. He swerved at Prost and damn near drove Alain into the f**k*ng pitwall in Hungary in '88. Nothing heroic about being complete c**t.  As Keke Rosberg once said "If they'd put the clamps on Senna early in his career you wouldn't see the childish bullshit we get from guys like Michael Schumacher today.  Both Stirling Moss and Phil Hill have made remarks to the effect that drivers in their day didn't behave the way these guys do for two reasons, firstly because they were gentlemen and racing was a gentleman's sport, secondly because if you did behave like that chances were pretty good that you were going to end up in the hospital or worse.  These guys today think they can do whatever they want because there usually surrounded by acres of gravel, as Matt said, its not real racing, its oversized scalextric racing.  Oh dear! I've gone off and messed up my new manicure!  A fractured leg? Big f**k*ng deal...If you want to be cuddled and safe go play f**k*ng golf.
Fax

Fine words fax,
I agree that the attraction is (or was?) the danger and the heroics of the drivers, it was the lump you got in your throat watching real bravery, or just a total disregard for personal well being, that made many memorable moments.
I admit that golf holds no attractions for me, I've tried it, and it just didn't work. But f*cking golf! That sounds like a different game altogether, and I rather think I'd like to give it a try.
How many irons do you need in your bag?

Dunno about the irons - but whenever I play the game I am always losing balls. Maybe a good complement of those would be required?

I'd say you need a Sackful!!  ;)

Thanks H,
Sorry about dropping all the F-Bombs but Jesus the world is so full of politically correct candy-asses...
My ex-girlfriend used to live near a golf course and used to do some late night...er, driving? with her.
Fax

This is a great thread, but it is only a spectator sport like the racing!!!

On the whole I agree with Fax.

There are far too many people trying to sanitise real endeavour these days and far too many effin lawyers making money out of "there there dry your eyes" incidents.

This doesn't make any of us into monsters if after a crash we look at the replays or if we shout hooray for our guys afterwards either. But the racing driver's game isn't all pussyfooted stuff is it?

Most drivers don't want to take part. They want to win.

It doesn't matter, except to me but I was disqualified from the only cart race I should have won because I didn't sit still while they cleared the track of the two tw*ts that had been needleing each other and me all through the race. Bitter. Course I'm bitter but none of us wanted the tw*ts to be injured either.


hmm I think I'll wander over there for a quiet sit down :-\


but:

On the whole I agree with Fax.

I had the misfortune to watch the BTCC yesterday. It now seems to be obligatory that if there is a car in front which you are unable to overtake fairly, then all you have to do is to give him a good nudge in the boot at the next corner and send him spinning into the gravel. Rob Collard in the MG was particularly unfortunate in getting shunted left right and centre, Plato being especially guilty. The works team drivers seemingly couldn't tolerate a non-works car putting them in the shade and bruising their over-inflated egos.

I realise tin tops have always raced in a "contact" way, but it's all gone too far. Mark my words, someone is going to get hurt very soon.