Club Arnage

Please excuse my ignorance gentlemen (and ladies), but I think the last time I went to the great race was in 2000.  (That's why I was looking forward to going again this year so much, it's been too long!)

I remember it was hot, really hot, and the awesome noise of the Astons and the Panoz, like the much-amplified sound of someone ripping carpet still rings in my ears.... (The Wailers lived up to their name on the stage :o)

At the risk of getting ridiculed for being nostalgic my most vivid memory is of my brother and I drinking beers into the night, sitting on the banking at the inside of Terte Rouge.  We could hear the cars weave through the chicane at the end of the start/finish straight before they came into view on the skyline at the top of the hill beneath the Dunlop bridge, and hurtled down towards us under maximum acceleration before breaking so hard that the discs glowed red hot to take the left-right combination just in front of us, and away, and listened to their gearchanges as they went round towards the Mulsanne....

OK, yeah yeah, nostalgia isn't what it used to be, but when did they lose the straight?  I haven't noticed it before on the various maps, but there's a daft wiggly bit  there now!  

When I do eventually get to the circuit I'm sure I'll see many differences, but why mend what isn't broken?  The experience of seeing the drivers charging through that short section of the track is something I'll never forget.  

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being maudlin', and I'm not against progress, but I am relatively new to this august forum, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be interested to hear what changes the more regular and more experienced frequenters of the circuit  have seen over the years.

Answers on a postcard to....

Firstly there were no Aston's in 2000 !
Secondly, it was the "Esses" that you were sat watching at. Terte Rouge is further round (the next bend).

If I am not mistaken, the new section has been there for the last two races.

Davids Dad,
Sorry but yes you are going to be ridiculed.  Don't follow racing racing much huh?  The stupid curve you refer to has been there since 2002, was placed there to re-profile the turn off onto the Bugatti circut from the La Chapelle corner.  This moonscape as I love to refer to it, since its about as evocative as the lunar landscape, gravel, dusty and dull, is the latest in a long line of very French and very stupid modifications to this joke of a once mighty circut.  To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would actually go there to try and watch motor racing.  Great piss-up but the circut is now a steaming pile of sh*t.  And as Chris said, there were no Aston's there in 2000.
Fax

Fax, your not impressed then! I first went in 2000 as well, and I dont think there is a more evocative site than watching the cars coming through the Esses at 1 o'clock in the morning. The vast "moonscape" as you term it is a great setting to watch the cars in all their glory of red hot brakes and flaming exhusts. Not so spectactular in the day light though agreed.
No there were no Astons in 2000 - But there will be this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait :o :o :o

Did we mention that we've seen the Astons already........In Sebring!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Are you coming to see them at Silverstone this weekend??

Like I said, I thought it was 2000, but it may have been 1999, I'm not sure.  I don't care when it was , my question relates to the straight being removed, and now I know it happened a couple of years ago.  

I've only been 3 times, the first was probably late 80's, and OK the Astons weren't there in 2000.   Jeeeeez, I thought I'd get ribbed for the nostalgia!!!

I thought the Wailers were there in 1999?

Fax,    Soapbox     La Sarthe


I actually like the new section, and you get a great view from Chapelle campsite as they come over the top and under the Dunlop bridge. One of my favourite dusk watching areas.

I presume you mean the N138, Davidsdad. Leads from Tetre Rouge to Mulsanne.

The chicanes there were built after Peugeot set the fastest speed ever. I believe officially it was 412 kmph, set somewhere 2001 (?). That way the French will always have the speed record in their own hands :(

i got to see the race once before they put the esses in and i think i prefferedit like it was. it was great seeing the cars hurlte down towards tetre rouge.

the new section is ok and provides quite good photo opportunities but other than that i think it was another pointless modification. if they wanted to make the track easier to race around they could just iron out the corners and make it a straight drag race

Could be interesting can't imagine a straight 3200 miles long though  ;D ;D

The ESSES were re-designed due to the Bugatti circuit having to qualify with the FIAA regulations on run off areas. The only way the bend could accomodate the correct run off areas was to re model it!

IRW,
Impressed with the event? Yes, very much so.  I'm a racing purist and it remains one of the great motor racing spectacles.  That said, I think the circut sucks now.  Its all point & squirt, mickey mouse stuff and the paying punter is a mile from the action having to look through fencing and over cement walls and razor wire....No, that doesn't impress me at all.
Fax

I know that motor racing can be dangerous and this is the site of the biggest ever accident, but I do hate being behing all the wire and concrete.  I'd rather take my chances.

As for photographs, you could take pictures from the Jaguar stand 5 or more years ago untill they put a bigger fence there, and it is now almost impossible to get any good shots of the cars.

As for safety, the Mulsanne chicanes only increase wear and tear on the brakes chassis angine and drivers, and have probably increased the number of accidents.

I would have scrapped the Buggatti circuit, or started again

Truck, as I discovered this spring, to see unobscured, clear, close views of the racing and to be able to take quality photographs, you can't beat Sebring Raceway.

I know of a couple of areas at Le Mans where I can take good photographs, from behind the fence, but without the fencing in the way - but if I told you where, I'd have to kill you.

Have a saunter through my uploaded Sebring, Le Mans and other photos at http://community.webshots.com/user/route66weasel (http://community.webshots.com/user/route66weasel)

Good photos, but loads of wire at LM.

I have secret places too.  This is at one of the many "improvements" to the track

Sorry, picture disappeared

I know that spot too!!!  Great at PQ's last year, but rather busy on race weekend!!!!

I thought wailing was illegal.

Oh god I think I've got a stalker

don't worry JPC only stalks certain racing drivers....

have any of you seen the cult film 'Le man'??? its lets you see the track in all of its old glory, great film. lots of amazing cars, filmed during a real race! must see for Le Man fans

That is MANDATORY viewing.  Have you completed the assessment paper?

I'm afraid nothing less than a 90% pass mark is acceptable.

You will NOT be able to proceed to YaBBGod without it!

Most of us got one free with the program last year and then had to buy a dvd player.

This film shows the "real" track. E.g The shot looking left from the pit wall shows the pit straight continuing from White House, with a few straw bales across it.  The Ford chicane must have been like the Mulsanne chicanes, and in normal use the road must have gone past Ford then past the pits and back to where it is now at the museum.  Thank god they didn't trash the esses when they built the motorway

Any rumours as to what, if any freebie with the programme this year?

Are you talking about the Steve McQueen classic movie or this one, which was a sort of documentary:

http://www.clubarnage.com/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1567;start=0

also known as La Ronde Infernal (or something like that).

Also, Moped-lad, Le Mans is plural - it has an 's' at the end.

DB

Umm Del Boy - i beg to differ as far as Le Mans being plural......its simply a french word that ends in "s"......otherwise it would be Les Mans....and 24 heures du Mans would have been 24 heures des Mans....

 ;D

F

Yes, and it will be shown at Team JPC's modest encampment one evening in June!!   :)

To get back to the thread, the days of being able to lean over the 3 foot high wall on the Esses by the fairground have unfortunatly long gone, where you could almost reach out and touch the cars and no catch fencing have taken away the whole atmosphere of being at a classic race. Whilst all these safety improvements are for the spectator safety, it has done little for spectator enjoyment

Another area they have completely destroyed is the viewing at the Chinese (and pub) on the Mulsanne straight. I remember until about 1997 being able to stand almost 6 feet away from the road and watching the blur of the cars flying past you at over 200mph.

You would hear the cars accelerate away from Tetre Rouge. You couldn't see them yet but you new what was next. You could feel the ground move (cue H) as they went past. Awesome!!

I won’t mention how they have, IMHO, stuffed up Indianapolis as well. That’s another story.

…….and relax………

If I may bore you with some more pictures to show how things have changed.

http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p7266191.html

1979 Essex 936's pre Dunlop chicane.

http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p11518768.html

1981 Renault 5 turbos pre Dunlop Chicane looking back towards the start. Imagine the start of the 24hrs, 935's vs M1's, 936's and DFV specials powering up the hill.

http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p2780294.html

1982 and a 956 on the run up to the Dunlop Bridge.

http://rupert8766.fotopic.net/p2976877.html

And the pits used to be alot more open, this is the Frings Chevy Camero form 81

I think you and a certan number of other people might have mentioned you went to SEBRING at some stage and had a particuarly awsome time.
I am tempted to come up to Siverstone :o :o :o, not sure what the orders are at present though.

I agree Fax, but unfortunatly we live in a nanny state and this will always be the future. Still a fantastic event, as you say, hope it stays that way.

As Steve Brown has said on another thread, it's 50 years since the horrific crash.
This link gives you some info and pictures.

It may help explain why safety fences appear.

http://chbastin.free.fr/dossiers/1955_accident/1955_accident.htm#accident-eng

Its all bolting the stable door after the horse has fled.  There was a bad accident in 1990 a little further up towards dunlop, where a Toyota cut up the leading Nissan and was barged into the armco at something near 200mph.  I think the driver was slightly injured.  Things have come a long was since then (no magnesium fires recently) and since 1955, and a decent Mercedes is still going to fly over the highest fence.

You can't prevent the unpredictable.  And Sebring seems exempt from the "lets stick concrete and wire everywhere" mentality.

Agreed, a massive shunt like 55 is not going to be prevented or the crowd protected by a wire mesh fence. It would however help in the event of a loose wheel or body work flying in the crowd.

In the world we live in where people can sue for the slightest injury to do nothing is no longer an option. I would imagine Sebring and will suffer the same blight in years to come. Insurance companies and risk assements dictate how most things are done today, regardless of there effectiveness.

Not 2001 for the fastest speed ever but 1992 (or 1996) with the WR Peugeot. Then the ACO erected the both chicanes.

BTW the fastetst point of the track isn't the Mulsanne striaght but the section from Mulsanne corner to Indianapolis Corner.

Gilles, fastest speed ever recorded was in 1988 on the pre-chicane Mulsanne at 250 MPH by the Roger Dorchy WM-Peugeot.  There seems to be a slightly different attitude toward debris fencing here in North America vs Europe.  At circuts Like Sebring, Road Atlanta, Mid-Ohio, Mosport, Laguna Seca. etc.  there is fencing but only where its absolutely necessary, I can't speak for the rest of the Euro circuts, LeMans being my only experience of them, but at Le Mans debris fencing seems to have been erected just for the sake of putting it up.  I mean there are places on the circut where the cars are crawling and and they've got two layers of fencing, what the hell for?
Fax

This is the Roger Dorchy who is famous for being a frenchman in  a french car leading the race, who then turned left at Mulsanne corner, much to the delight of the rest of the world.

I thought the americans were more litigious than the europeans, but there is a risk that the insurance companies don't care

Whilst the photos of the 1955 Mercedes incident are very sobering, imagine the same scenario if the more recent flying Mercedes incidents hadn't happened on the sparsely populated Mulsanne / Indianapolis sections but on the start / finish straight.

The Mark Webber / Peter Dunbreck 'flights' were as dramatic and, potentially, lethal - any amount of catch fencing would have had a hard job preventing many spectator deaths.

seeing as we're all discussing it, heres a link to said flying mercedes:

http://www.uselessjunk.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1695 (http://www.uselessjunk.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1695)