Club Arnage

This is the most ridiculous thing i have seen in motorsport for a long time. F1 was already struggling to maintain audiences and now the FIA are planning on excluding BAR because the car was found to be 5.4kg below the 600kg minimum weight after the race at Imola

BAR maintains its innocence saying the car operated at legal weight during the race, but it was only when it was completely drained that it fell below weight. the stewards at Imola did not find a problem, but the FIA appealed the decision and were determined to make an issue out of it.

If BAR were to be thrown out of the championship it would leave two promising drivers without a team and put about 600 people out of a job for the rest of the season. i think it would be disastrous for F1 and I for one would finally boycott what has now become a joke of a sport

Actually I hope they get found guilty. :o

From what I've read it sounds like they were trying to bend the rules too far (saying the car was empty of fuel when there was still 11kg+ in it) apparently the rules state that ballast must also be static, which fuel wouldn't be.

I hope BAR-Honda get barred from gaining any constructors points for the year as they need to take responsibility, but leave Jenson & Taku to collect any points they may win. The drivers don't deserve to be punished, but should they not question the team if they think something is illegal?? rumours are BAR have been suspected of running light for some time.

If the worst does happen the majority of staff will be anything but out of a job, they've already begun testing the new V8 engine in the back of a car last week & the company has enough to keep most busy, apparently Pitchforth & Parnell are still on gardening leave & being paid by RBR to "keep quiet".

Rules are rules & they should be respected & kept within, from what I see BAR were trying to gain an advantage as they have been unable to get the car going quick enough. That said the behaviour of Ferrari with all the testing of late has been a disgrace, Alonso hit the nail on the head when he said there's 2 teams cheating in F1.

some fair points. certainly i wouldnt expect that 600 staff would sit around twiddling their thumbs for the rest of the season, so that is not really a concern.

the thing that really gets me is that the stewards spent 6 hours examining the car and were satisfied that it met the necessary standards. once it has been decided i dont understand how the FIA can just jump in and overrule that decision.

if ballast must be static then there certainly are some issues that need to be considered if BAR are accused of using fuel as ballast. BAR claim that the extra fuel tanks were used to pressurise fuel before injecting it into the engines. i admit to being unsure of the legality of this, but cant see that it is a direct brecah of any rules.

banning the team for the entire season seems completely unreasonable though. point deductions and/or fines would surely suffice. if man united had been found guilty of cheating (for example, by a 50 yard lob being dropped over the line by their goalkeeper and the 'goal' not being given) it would be unthinkable for the FA to consider banning them for the rest of the season!

That's not quite the same.
The dodgy goal is the result of the referees and linesmans descions, not an effort by the player/team to decieve.
Cheating is the intentional and premeditated (sp?) effort to gain an advantage. e.g. a player/team taking performance enhancing drugs which results in a ban, or trying to bribe a match official.
Different scenario completely.

In my opinion, if you don't stick to the rules, you should be punished; end of.

you're right. that was a terirble example on my part. use of drugs would perhaps have been a bit mopre water-tight.  :-[

as it is, BAR have been banned for 3 races which i think is fair.

But BAR state that they are innocent and will probably apply to court so that they can race in Spain this weekend.

Basically there appears to have been a tank within the fuel tank which acted as a pressuriser for the fuel.  They say for the car to operate this tank has to be full, therefore it is part of the car, therefore the car is legal.

Presumably if the inner tank has to be full at all times the fuel in it will also be static albeit flowing!

this is what i thought. the 'extra fuel tanks' are full whilst the car is operating in race conditions, so it would have been above the required weight during the race. its only when the car was drained of all its fuel that it fell below weight.

i can see its a pretty borderline case, and there is that rule that ballast needs to be static, but can this fuel injection system be seen as 'ballast' or is it just used to improve performance.

IMHO all this is why I stopped being interested in the little dwarfs circus and started to watch som decent racing. Only 6 weeks to the greatest show on earth ;D ;D ;D

who cares really - rules are rules

But with F1 very few people know what the rulebook says!  There apparently is no rule which says fuel cannot be ballast.  

My guess is that it is all polictical anyway

what's the guessing?  Will BAR be in qualifing this weekend?

Rules are rules-ban them if they have been found to break them. There is a good explination in this weeks MN about the whole thing. The problem with big money sport that if rules are not enforced the whole thing goes to the dogs (mind you F1 is pretty shagged anyway)

toyota was banned from rallying in the late '90s for a simple technical infringement -it did them no harm, they came back with a cracker of a car the following season.

yep. i fully expect to see them there. it doesnt take much to think back to the start of the season when there was absolutely no possiblity whatsoever that Minardi stood any chance at all of being able to race the first 3 races of the season cos their car wasnt up to scratch. i think they actually did the mods themselves, but i reckon they, like BAR, would have been on the grid anyway.

very true

perhaps its to spice it all up -  ;D

Do you think if they had signed up with bernie and not become part of the F1 breakaway they wouldn't have been punished?
Or am i just being cynical?

Toyota were banned for cheating, and there is no doubt they were cheating!  They deisgned a turbo which was designed to have different sized restrictor than allowed under the rules.  Not only that but the device was designed so when it was removed from the car springs moved the plate so that it looked legal!

The BAR case is on an interpretation of the rules and does not appear to be so clear cut.

Its not uncommon for there to be some kind of "swirl pot" to collect fuel and ensure no air gets into the injection system, but 10kg must be over 2 gallons.  Trying to weigh dry is daft, because there will be losses of water, gear oil, hydraulic fluid etc, sweat and worse!

Its probably the latest gimmick to get them in the papers.

Well, I'm not surprised they've been banned.

I am surprised however, that Ron Dennis and his boys have got away with cheating for so long. Surely somebody must have noticed that they seem to have removed the contents of Raikkonens head? I'm sure they must be using it to hide some fuel, or ballast, or something.

Heh..... :D
They certainly removed something I thought it was just emotion but recent sightings in "dens of iniquity" & angry outbursts seem to point against that ;)

My money is on him being one of the latest genetically modified humans, there's nothing upstairs but the feet are made of lead (lowers weight in the car you know!!)