Club Arnage

gt-eins, a german sportscar website reports today that there is confirmation now for an ORECA-runned Audi R8 with an all-french driver line-up. Any ideas who will run the other Audis? Goh? Champion?

For the moment, and probably definitely no Goh Audis, but still Champion R8

The French press are reporting that the Oreca effort will be a 2 car team of R8's at Le Mans, sponsored by Orange and 1 of the Drivers may be Alain Prost!!

Prost is yet to confrim but if its true then the crowd will be huge.

The good news of the orange sponsor is the playstation could still be on Uncle Henri's cars.

Champion are campaigning two R8's in the ALMS this year but haven't yet heard if they are planning on taking one or both cars to the Sarthe.
John

These news were denied today by Prost himself. He still refuses to drive at LM finding the race too dangerous.

The big wet blanket.

Now I don't know a hell of a lot about F1, and even less about Pele's antics in the bathroom with the loofa, but wasn't Prost racing  in the days when it was still possible to blend yourself with the Armco, tyre barriers and other competitors. As experienced by Martin Donnelly in a Lotus.
LM doesn't particularly strike me as being a dangerous track, not these days anyway. I know Jochen Maas was never a fan, but he still raced there. I could be wrong, but I don't think that there has been more serious incidents there than any other circuit, hour for hour or even race for race. In fact I'm struggling to think of many in the last 20 years, apart from Win. It'd be interesting to hear what Colin Macrae, Kenny Brack or Alex Zanardi thinks...
I always thought Le Profs driving style would suit LM, shame he won't be coming to the party.
I reckon 'big wet blanket' is giving him the benefit of the doubt. The great huge wringing tarpaulin.
H

Actually, on second thoughts, can I change my mind?

Le Mans is a very dangerous place indeed. Thousands and thousands of Brits (along with our Transatlantic friends) turn up there every year, most of them in a reasonable state of health. And every year, without fail, they all return a few days later in a hell of a mess.
It's statistics, you can't argue with them.
H

I could see the Prost-ORECA connection.  The ORECA team principal, Hughes De Chaunac (spelling?) is a longtime friend and supporter of Alain's.  But I can also see Alain being somewhat skeptical of the safety at LM.  He saw and was part of some pretty awful things during his F1 days (it was off the back of his Renault that Didier Pironi went cartwheeling to the end of his career at Hockenheim)
and there has always been a stigma, founded or not, among the F1 elite that the Sarthe, is still a dangerous place.  Guys like Jochen Mass, Klaus Ludwig and JL Schlesser all used to hate Le Mans but still drove their guts out when strapped into the cockpit.
John

Big H,

I think that young French kid, who crashed the WR there a few years back, might like to argue with you about the place being dangerous. Oh, sorry, I forgot, he can't argue with you because he is dead !

Chris

I could be wrong but I seem to recall the poor guy was T-boned off the start line. So guess it could have happened anywhere and does not necessarily make LM a dangerous track.

Blimey Chris,
I don't remember this! Was it in the main race?
I remember a Pug saloon car driver being fatally injured after being t-boned at the start of one of the support races, but this was on the pit straight immediately after the start flag, so it would be difficult to blame the circuit.
H

H, I saw Donnelly at Brands in 1989 racing for Jordan in F3000. His team mate was Jean Alesi and Donnelly blew him into the weeds. I thought he had a great future ahead of him.

The Lotus crash was a terrible incident. If you look at the photos he looks like a twisted piece of dog's dinner lying amongst the multicoloured wreckage of a stunt plane that had seemingly just crashed onto his head. Quite the worst thing I've ever seen, I think he had more broken bones than straight ones. How he came out alive remains a mystery. So it was great to see the guy make a comeback, I recall they did a TV documentary on him. He's now into team management and not surprisingly still walks with a limp.

Guys,
It happened over the test weekend back in 98 or 99 I think.  The rear bodywork came off the car approaching the Porsche Curves and the car got airbourne over the armco and into the trees.  I can't recall off hand the young guys name but he was a promising French F3 driver.
Fax

His name was Sebastian Enjolras and it happened in during the pre-qual weekend in '97
John

I remember now. I think there was a dedication to him in that years program (or maybe it was the yearbook). What a shame.
Still, it doesn't sound like the circuit contributed. Alboretos accident had a similar cause to, different car, different circuit.

I agree with all you say about Donnelly Andy. Balls like a pawnbrokers...
H

Then there was the crash in '86 when an Austrian (I think) driver, whose name escapes me at the moment, crashed at the top of the Mulsanne in a Porsche 956/62. The Joest Porsche suspicially ran its bearings homage not long after whilst leading and going for its third win in a row.

There has also been a marshal killed one of the years i've been going.

Agreed about MD, big brass ones.  If you ever get a chance read Prof. Watkins book.  There's a good chapter about about Donnelly, his rescue and recovery.  Apparently surviving the shunt was just the start his problems.  He suffered a bone embolism similar to the
one that killed Ronnie Peterson, he went into renal failure and was on death's doorstep for a while.  The fact that he's still alive is a miracle nevermind walking.
John

Yup, Jo Gartner in the Kremer Kenwood 956 in 1986 - terrible accident. His clutch disintegrated, locking up the transaxle and sending him into the guardrail at that nasty, critical angle that causes basal skull fractures (a la Dale Earnhardt). The car ended up over the armco in amongst the trees and when that happens, it's usually pretty ugly.
The crash was preceded by Mass's car dumping it's coolant after a coming together with a C2 Ecosse.
Ludwig and Joest Racing had that one in the bag, only for Old #7 to break down, having spent nearly 2 hours behind the pace car.
Ludwig's start in the 86 race was inspired - holeshotting the Rothmans 956's as they crossed the 'Depart' line. I always thought Klaus was The Man - even after he embarrassed himself by running out of fuel in the 88 (?) race and driving it back on the starter motor.
Let's not forget LaFosse in '82 either - yet another over the armco flight that ended fatally. Pre-chicane Mulsanne straight, spectacular as it was, was a dangerous piece of tarmac, no error.

Thats just it, its not particularly the track that is dangerous, its the immovable objects that line the perimeter of the track that you can hit if you clear the barriers. I guess its true that speed does kill, because its speed that can cause a car to clear the barrier.

Ah yes Chris,
There's the catch-22. Speed is integral to racing.  Road racing is just about that.  Real roads have slow corners, fast corners, long high speed straights and short ones.  Road courses should replicate real roads.  Most of the new road circuts don't. They're designed on computers with a set of parameters given to the circut designers by the FIA.  Yes its awful when something tragic happens but at the end of the day its up to the constructer of the car to make sure it doesn't fail and stays planted on the ground and as the late Patrick Depailler once said "Its my job to keep it on the road."  I may sound like a hypocrite when I remark that the IRL is stupidly dangerous and yet being critical of the ACO for going overboard with the gravel traps and chicanes but there is a difference between  racing week after week, all spring, summer, and autumn at suicidal speeds with the ever present risk of a 220 mph impact with a cement wall and spending three days year hurling down the Mulsanne.
John

This is the latest news from France re the Audi france team


- how many cars ? one, an ex Veloqx one, chassis 604, everything is brand new exept the bodyshape and the flat bottom
- how many races ? LM and Spa at least, but probably the whole LMES championship, a "one shot" being to risky
- any chance to have two ? very very few, just a dream, but sometimes dreams come true. Sam Li keeps the second one and doesn't want to rent it
- how many Audis opponent at LM ? Two, maybe three
- budget : 3.5 M€
- pilots : Montagny, Sarrazin, Minassian, Collard, Ortelli, Gounon, Dalmas, Bereta are on the list ; they'll have to be reliable and fast, in a "team spirit" (Big egos not allowed)
- Prost ? A friendly presence, no more ; a No No for the race as a pilot
- name of the team ? Could be Team Audi France Playstation ORECA, or something like that
- The deal : how long ? One year, but could be longer if we succeed... Oreca wants a real middle term commitment, including with another factory, for a, overall win at LM
- are the new rules a handicap for the R8 ? No, its performance is in the reliability and the pit stops


The problem Prost has with the track is that if anything breaks on the car, the speeds are very high of a lage part of the of the track.

There have been some horrific crashes in the recent past , Dumbreck & Webber flipping the merc's, the Nimrods fireiy crash that killed a marshal, Percy Flipping a Jag , Palmer flipping a 962 in 90. none of these are caused by driver error just the high speed and something breaking.

Anyone else remember Tiff Needell trying to park one of the first Aston Martin Nimrods in a tree on Mulsanne?

BG, my memory fails me yet again!!
I don't remember Tiff being in a Nimrod, although I'm pretty sure he appeared in an EMKA Aston a few times, but don't remember any incidents in the shrubbery. I think the young lad brought them home.
John Sheldon (a mate of mine!) had a disasterous accident in a Nimrod on the Mulsanne in 84, unfortunately collecting the second Aston on the bounce from the armco.
Please don't put anything up my bottom.
H

Tiff did drive a Nimrod in 82, that crashed, can't remember who was driving at the time.

The Sheldon crash, I think thats the same one that Olsen or Salmon was involved in as well, I think it claimed the life of a marshal.

I am pretty sure John Sheldon was a dentist, got quite badly burnt if I remember.

He is. Nickname: "The Driller".
And he's done a bit of drilling with me, I can tell you. It was John who suggested going without anaesthetic once when I was a little strapped for cash. I did, and admit it was rather nice.

He was very, very, badly burnt, but his bollocks are up there with Martin Donnellys, and a pair of governors I once saw on a working beam engine.

He was back in a car at LM in 87!!!! - A top bloke.
H

I am pretty sure John Sheldon was a dentist, got quite badly burnt if I remember.

My recollection is that he was (and may still be) a dentist, although probably not NHS if he could afford to go racing.

The Mr Needell incident was during my early years at LM and I won't disagree with Nordic about it being '82. One day I'll go up into the loft and rummage through the box with all the race report and other LM stuff in and check it out, but then again maybe another beer instead.

.

I detect a professional interest from BG here, and refuse to give up any further details.

Even without the anaesthetic.
H

I detect a professional interest from BG here, and refuse to give up any further details.

]

Has Mr Zarse come to an agreement with the IR yet or will he need some Advice from those "in the know"
Anaethestic may be tax deductable!

Tiff drove the #31 Nimrod in the 1982 race (chassis NRA/C2-003) and DNF. The sister car came 7th.
Of the 5 Nimrod chassis built only one was lost (Sheldons, chassis 004) and even that was re-created from the parts inventory. All of the others are either owned by Viscount Downe, Robin Hamilton - or are in private hands. 003 is owned by one Roger Bennington, who also has one of 5 AMR1's and the Vantage that Hamilton ran in 1980 - obviously not short of a bob or two.....

I think it should be the Taxwoman androgenous dogbitch thing who has inflicted this misery on us whom I use the anaethestic upon. I've been sharpening my ripsaw too. Swiftly followed by a large bonfire on the compost heap. What the flames don't consume the worms will.

I'd happily use the P35's and P11D 's as kindling, but I gather that would be a breach of my responsibilities as a Company Director. BG, Is there anything about it in the IR Practice Notes?

I share your pain with the Inland f**k*ng Revenue Andy.
I received a notice stating that I owe in the region of thirteen hundred quid for the year 2003/4 in underpaid income tax. They don't seem to understand that I have not been in the UK tax system since 2001.
I must diligently complete a tax return each year and return it stating that I earned precisely zip during the previous 12 months - but it seems to make little difference to their calculations.
They are clearly bonkers.

No they're not. I tried bonking one and she wouldn't have it. I've had much more luck over the years with girls at Lloyds Bank.

I'm guessing not much of the original car was used!

Images from 'Le Maine'
(http://img92.exs.cx/img92/4151/nimrod8qf.jpg)

(http://img74.exs.cx/img74/1254/nimrod25eq.jpg)

I'd happily use the P35's and P11D 's as kindling, but I gather that would be a breach of my responsibilities as a Company Director. BG, Is there anything about it in the IR Practice Notes?

The IR don't use practice notes- they're perfect and don't need to practice!
Like you Mr Z, I too am a director of my own company but I'm only in my secind year of trading, so not too much grief from the IR YET!