Club Arnage

I know that you guys in the UK probably havent seen this but Ford is running a brilliant new commercial for the new Ford Mustang based on the movie "Field of Dreams"  A guy lives on a farm, builds a road course in the middle of his corn crops and pulls out on to the course in his new Mustang.  He stand beside the car for a few seconds when out from the corn walks Steve McQueen (this is all digitally spliced from Bullitt)  the bloke hands Steve the keys, gets a stare from Steve and McQueen goes tearing off around the course.  Its fricking brilliant!  I wish there was a way you guys could find this on the web, there's got to be a clip out there somewhere
Fax

Yes John, I've seen it, brilliant (much better than the also good earlier Ford Puma ad with Steve McQueen)

Here's a link to it (Quicktime) - http://www.joeytomatoes.com/fordmustangcornfield.htm (http://www.joeytomatoes.com/fordmustangcornfield.htm)

or downloadable here - http://avs.epix.net/cornfield.wmv (http://avs.epix.net/cornfield.wmv)

Makes you want to buy one?

.....and another link with some stills http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/ads/05/#cornfield (http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/ads/05/#cornfield)

plus another longer ad based around a (Iraq?) war veterans return home and (eventually) the new Mustang.  Warning - it's a bit sentimental http://www.nbc.com/nbc/American_Dreams/ford.shtml (http://www.nbc.com/nbc/American_Dreams/ford.shtml)

shame he doesn't give the double finger ;D

THAT'S why I had Broadband at last!!!

Great advert, thanks for telling us about it.....

Think I might wait for the DBR9 now though. :P

 :)

Bill

Speaking of the Steve McQueen double finger, I can't remember what it means.  I watched Le Mans again last week when he did it at the end of the race to the Ferrari driver but I just don't remember the symbolism.  Someone please refresh my aging grey matter.  Thanks.

John,
Historically it derives from when the English archers used to taunt their opponents (such as the French at Agincourt).  They were giving the two finger (palm towards yourself) signal that basically meant "look, I still have my two arrow shooting fingers and I'm going to send an arrow up your arse".  The fingers were crucial for pulling the bow string and holding the arrow.
When archers were taken captive they generally had these fingers chopped off so that they could not shoot a bow if they escaped.

Nowadays, it is still a good method of taunting your opponent and basically means "f**k you" or "f**k off".

(http://www.autosportsltd.com/images/featured/two_fingers/finger.jpg)

Fax

Thanks for that, I will be passing that on at work on Monday. You could also link the ad to that Steve McQueen film where there's a car chase in a corn field, memory is a bit vague here!

can someone help?

 ???

might not have been Steve McQueen, but I think it was.

What was that other film he did where he was a bounty hunter, his house was always full of strangers and he had trouble parking his car [his character was a terrible driver]?

I'm sure this one was Steve McQueen.

D.A.

Steve, now I remember.  Thanks for bringing that fact back to me.   If we used that gester in the US, very few people would know about that.  They might even think it's a "bassackwards V" for victory or peace depending on your generation.

Dickie,
The film who describe was called 'The Hunter' and was McQueens last film.
Pretty good movie, I think, in a fairly laid back sort of way.

The chase through the high corn field is where he's chasing a couple of brothers who have jumped bail - McQueen drives a Trans Am (a fine donor car engine for a cobra  ;) )

(http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000063KMA.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

Superb!

That's been bothering me all evening - reference my last post,  am I on about the same film then?


D.A.

Yes, definately.  He drove an old beat up convertible with a dodgy gearbox and his girlfriend was heavily pregnant - she got kidnapped by a bad guy as I recall.

Yeah, it's a great ad, nostalgic and all...too bad the car is still a cheaply put together heap.

Want an American V-8 that rocks? Get the new '05 Vette ( a huge quality and power jump in this new body style), or your version of our Pontiac GTO and Aussie Original, the Monaro.

Would like to see them loose the pushrods already...

I get the impression, all American cars are buil;t like that.

The road test of the new Dodge Viper showed the body work on fire and typical cheap plastics ?

Typical cheap plastics lead to typical cheap squeaks and rattles. That was one of the big new improvements on the '05 Vette, that GM found better plastics for the interior. You would think that a car touted as hitting 0-60 in 4 seconds flat would have an interior to match. How much more could it cost to have a TVR like interior? I have heard that they can be of questionable build, but those interiors are sexy as ....you know.

Probably a fortune, as the majority of parts used in TVR interiors are bespoke and individually made. GM has a very large parts bin to select their cheap (but improving) quality plastic parts from.

Unfortunately although the materials used in TVR interiors are of reasonable quality and look nice the assembly can be, as you say, less than perfect. Combine that with high NVH and the you can watch the car disassemble itself around you - according to someone I know with direct experience.

Had a brief look at a secondhand Cerbera a while back at a local dealers as I was toying with the idea at the time, nice to look at from a distance but one look at the way the screen had been 'bonded' in persuaded me that I'm not that brave yet!

Interestingly my current steed (Subaru) is made with pretty low rent plastics in the interior yet after 5 years of 'enthusiastic' use there is still not a rattle or squeak. It's more about the quality and accuracy of the design and the repeatability of the build.

I hate to say it but just check out the panel gaps on any Jap (or German) car and compare them with those on a typical US competitor to see what I mean.

True, true, but even that can be a disappointment. My original '99 GTI was built in germany. ABSOLUTELY bulletproof. I then had an '01 A4, also built in D-land, again the same case. My current '03 GTI was built in Brasil or Argentina, but has those stinkin' rattles, mostly in the backseat, (without my help, har har), and has a few electrical gremlins with the rear wiper and cruise control.

Now an American made car isn't the bad car. The American engineered car is the bad car. We make our own Nissans, Toyotas, and Hondas here, all with awesome reliability.Our own GM, Ford, and Chrysler brands are junk, not from the build quality, but the engineering designed to fail at 75,000 miles.

I hope that Mitsu and Subaru aren't going to follow like GM with amazing engines and weak interiors.

Either way, if a TVR were for sale on this side of the pond, I would be first in line. What a looker!!

From what I hear and read in the British motoring press then you may get your place in the queue in the not too distant future.

Since the sale of TVR to Russian Nikolai Smolensky there have been a number of articles where he has been quoted as saying that European and US markets will be addressed, they will sink more money into developing LHD cars, aiming to meet US emissions regs. etc, etc.

Personally I think they should spend a bit on making the cars more reliable first, then the world markets will be theirs for the taking.

I agree the cars are great to look at, but I want to drive as well. Not spend half my time sitting at the side of the road staring at my car waiting for the tow truck to arrive.

I've also heard that Smolensky is also making a few threats at the existing board, saying that things will only be done his way.  Good or bad?? ???

[quote author=vwgtifan

Now an American made car isn't the bad car. The American engineered car is the bad car. We make our own Nissans, Toyotas, and Hondas here, all with awesome reliability.Our own GM, Ford, and Chrysler brands are junk, not from the build quality, but the engineering designed to fail at 75,000 miles.

Either way, if a TVR were for sale on this side of the pond, I would be first in line. What a looker!!

Hi vwgtifan
Your posts seem to contradict each other somewhat. Earlier, you state that the new C6 is a quantum leap forward on quality over it's predecessor and then state that GM brands 'are junk'.
Firstly, I think it a little ill-informed to suggest that the C5 suffered any significant build quality issues. I've owned my C5 vert for over 3 years. The interior looks a little cheap, compared to a Benzo or BMW - but we're not comparing apples with apples, pricewise. There are no (and have never been any) rattles, squeeks or gronks and the panel fit and finish are utterly superb on my 2000 example.
I agree that the C6 has even more grunt (400bhp from the LS2) and that additions like satnav, keyless ignition and lat g meter are cool, however, the seats, dash layout and general ergonomics are pretty much the same, as far as I can tell.
Aesthetics are a subjective issue - and whilst I actually prefer the more curvaceous lines of the C5. I'd take the C6 for the extra performance and the slightly smaller physical dimensions.
As for the TVR - they are somewhat quirky and idiosynchratic (I'm being polite). The TVR/Corvette debate has been a long and arduous one. It seems that the Corvette fans are owners of same and the TVR fans are - erm, everyone else. As said before, don't knock it 'til you've tried it.
As far as mainstream product is concerned, you are absolutely right - a Chevy Monte Carlo does not have the same engineering pedigree as an Audi A6 - but then, it costs less than half as much.......      

i'd just registered the application of a '65 Mustang Fastback for my Winter Classic Rally !!!  8)

Matt,

Ouch! One point I tried to make was that a car that can hang with the likes of many supercars should have a better interior in fit and finish. The new C6 is quite attractive, undeniably powerful; and IMHO, a large step up in the interior, yet the interior is still short of the supercars it can hang with.

The second point was that even cheaper European cars, (Fiat, skoda, etc), have better interior feel than similar price/performance/function U.S. models.

The new Mustang, if you have been in one, doesn't have a nice interior. It's pure crap. Huge cheap slabs of creaky plastic all over. That seems to almost be a standard of American cars. It can't cost that much more to improve the interior feel of an American car.

Since you asked ;) I am curious, why does the avarage American car still use power robbing pushrods, larger displacement to get the same power reads as a smaller (not always, but usually more efficient)jap/german engine?

Yours, Matt; aka VWGTIFAN

Hi Matt
Written word is easily misinterpreted, it wasn't my intention to attack.
My point is that C5/6 (late generation 'Vettes) are in the big leagues performance-wise, but cost around 50% of equivilant pork, benzo, Ferrari or even Viper. I guess some of that saving comes out of the quality of the interior. The build quality i.e. how it's all screwed together is good, in my experience. If I compare the interior of my C5 with that of my guv'nors CL500, they are poles apart - but the Merc cost $120,000. The Corvette outperforms it in every respect, aside from cosseting it's occupants.
For a like for like comparison, select a $50k car that will do what a C6 can do on the road - and compare interiors. Personally, I can't think of a like for like. Sure, it would be great to have a M-B, BMW, Audi or dare I say it Lexus interior - trouble is, it would then be more than $50k! We seem to be going around in circles.
I agree - the new Mustang is a little cheap (not just the inner sanctum) - but it's a mass-produced, cookie-cutter type of car - priced appropriately.
I still feel you are generalising too much by stating that Fiat/Skoda etc interiors are superior to even high-end yank iron. Current Caddys, Vettes, Vipers and the like, are not so bad.
I honestly don't recall asking - but I think the average American car uses pushrod motors (if that is true - and I'm not sure it is anymore) to keep the costs down and make the product less of a colossal purchase for an individual.
In the case of the Corvette, OHV delivers lots of affordable torque, a low hood (bonnet) for unbeatable Cd figures and improved visability, over the C4 predecessor. The LT5 (Corvette ZR1 DOHC V8) was just too big physically and too damn expensive to carry over. It all boils down to economics. GM could easily build the best supercar on the planet, given their resource - but what would be the point of that - to a mass producer? This is why cars like the Corvette should be admired for their value and performance bang for the buck - not reviled and unfairly compared with cars that cost twice as much and only do a similar job.
Best regards
MattH    

No Matt, you didn't ask, but it seems you are quite the C5/6 fan, and I love to debate the virtues of U.S. vs E.U. machinery.

Good topic for a new thread. I heard the C6R will be difficult for the engineers to work with, due to the shorter overhangs. Any news on that?

Matt  

Hey GTI Fan (I had a grey '86 for years),
Like the new photo of you and your mates next to the GT40 but what the hell is with that red, over-priced pile of sh*t on the right?  Looks like a very expensive Fiat...
Fax

Fax - you're going to hell for that comment!
Guess I'd better keep the Turdo after all.   :-[

Fax,

The GT 40 belongs to my old neighbors in Brussels.

After getting a divorce, serving in Afghanistan for 10 months, and hitting 30, I figured I deserved to rent the POS for Le Mans! It was worth every penny to haul a** from Paris to LM in that thing.

Anyone see Bullet on C4 last night? It right cheered me up after the dreadful BBC Sports Personality of the Year. A worthy winner in Holmes, but you'd have though in a two hour prog they might have found time to mentioned Tom Kristensen, Aston Villa or even the gold medal GB won in the Olympic show jumping, which was a sporting classic to watch. But no, we get  5 mins on Loser Radcliffe instead. What a load of bollocks!

 :(

A Zarse esq, sir. You struck a raw nerve there mate. The only time the BBC has for the Villa is the last fifteen seconds of "Match of the Day" just before the winding up blurb. A five or six goal match (not too likely this year I'll admit) would still only get in at the end with flashes of goal action and little comment....

Oh well, there is always Motors TV to take away the taste.

 ;)


Bill

Sorry Dave and GTI Dude but I've just never bought into the whole mystique around Ferrari's, mostly thought it's all been over-hyped BS especially since the Commendatore checked out in 88.  Dave you may want to hang on to the turbo, if you think you've got build quality issues with the TT wait till you get the Fiat.
Fax

I'm certainly no authority on Corvette - just an enthusiastic owner and fan.  My understanding is that the C6R is a re-skin of the Pratt & Miller spaceframe, previously clothed with a C5 sillhouette.
As suggested previously, the C5 road car, is unnecessarily large, in my opinion - particularly the front overhang. From what I've seen of the C5R the only components forward of the front wheels are the splitter, brake ducting, oil/trans coolers and the bottom 1/3 of the radiator. That being the case, it shouldn't be too much of a challenge to squeeze it all under a C6 nose - after all, it only has to look like the road car. Given that the C6 arse is a little shorter than the C5 - they may have to compromise with a very obvious and rather ugly rear diffuser, similar to the one worn by the Lambo Murciallago last season.
I must congratulate you on your Le Mans ride - top choice. I work for a guy who has a seemingly limitless amount of money and a real passion for cars/bikes/aircraft etc. He has 2 360's - a coupe and a Spyder - only driven the coupe - but that F1 paddle-shift is the sh*t. Couldn't believe how fast it all worked. It is a sensational car and I genuinely cannot think of anything to critiscise it for - other than that he can't out-drag me in my vette. Out-brake, out-steer, out-handle, out-grip - yes. But out-drag - nosiree.    

Fax

You know that good ole Enzo was a ruthless bastard when he needed to be. His hirings and firing were legendary. But the breathtaking cynicism of the current incumbents seriously peeves me.

Take for example the 550s which have been competing at LM these last few years. Fine racing cars they are, but they have had not one jot of developement from the factory. As I understand it, the Teams had to go and buy second hand road cars to develop and race. That they have achieved such sucesses in GTS, FIA etc is in no way attributable to the factory but down to the men behind the budgets and the skills of the likes of Prodrive.

And now what do we get as the latest overpriced offering from the chaps at Maranello? Yes, the Ferrari 550LM, a replica GTS race car with carbon fibre everything, a full GTS rear wing and front splitter. A fine, fine motorcar no doubt, but it annoys me greatly to see the cynical bastards cashing in on something they had absolutely fu ck all to do with.

It was the same with Volvo some years back. They ran a TV ad in which a Volvo estate car was seen racing through the desert and in the distance was a black streak, clearly supposed to be Thrust SSC. Volvo (and it's owners Ford) put sod all into the Thrust project and had absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever. It sickened me to see them trading on the reflected glory and sheer guts of others. There is a great bit at the end of Richard Noble's book on SSC (and to which I incidentally commend to any self respecting petrolhead) where he lambasts these chikenshit arseholes.

Consumers ain't all that gullible. Surely?

Of course they (consumers) are..why else would there be so many Hummer 2's and front wheel drive NASCAR edition Monte Carlo's running around over here?

These are the same berks (Todt) who made the Mazza MC12 outside of the ACO rules in the hope that the rules would be changed to suit their new car.

The FIA have given in so the car can run in the FIA GT's (No Astons or Vettes in that)

The ACO have said no, so unless the car is redesigned with shorter overhangs and made narrower we will be denied the Aston vs Corvette vs Ferrari Vs MC12 battle next year at Le Mans or Sebring.

Very good point Nordic. Mazza really should be back at LM. Word was they were trying to do a Porsche GT1.

Shame really, Jean Todt is a very efficient team boss. I always admired his work at Peugeot with the 205T16 in the 80's, then with the Pug sportscar program.

Looks like the arrogance bug has bitten him too; just another Tom Walkinshaw these days.

To me Ferrari has become just another faceless division of Fiat.  The cars are stupidly over-priced, your paying for name, a yellow badge and a reputation that doesn't exist anymore.  Yes, the old man was nutty as a fruitcake, would sack engineer's for the hell of it and pit his drivers against each other to the point of driving each other into their own graves.  However the company and the cars that bore his name had charisma.  To me Ferrari means Ickx and Forghieri, not Todt and Schumacher.  The current cars look like they were styled in Japan, not Italy.  Earlier this summer I was out cycling near my home some joker pulled up in front of a coffee shop in a 360.  This guy looked like Guido the Killer Hairdresser, it occured to me that this is who Ferrari is marketing their car to.  The guy clearly had no taste and a two inch pecker but his Ferrari and his gold chains made sure that everyone knew he had plenty of money.  I doubt if he knew which end of the car the engine was in.
John

The whole empire, from the sixties onwards, has been predicated on the cash of ignorant medallion men. Not saying all owners or enthusiasts are like that but a goodly proportion are. It's not called the Prancing Horse for nothing.

sort of...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/GarettO/c6z1copy1.jpg

H

<rant mode ON>
Yes.  Being an (anorak) fan of the Land speed Record, a personal supportor of Thrust SSC, and friends with some of the SSC team, that Volvo ad really stuck in my craw.

When Thrust 2 ran at Black Rock in 1983, the majority of the money raised was through corporate sponsorship.

However, when Thrust SSC came along, the accountants with the bloated expense accounts kept well away.  You just have to look at the (lack of) corporate logos on the surfaces of SSC.

In '83 the team lived in hotels close to Black Rock, in '97 they dossed town in spare rooms or camped in the desert.

When the sh*t hit the fan in 1997 and there was no money in the budget to fly SSC to Reno in the heavy lift Antonov, the SSC Supportors rasied the money to buy the fuel by simply pledging money.  A tenner here, fifty there, the money was raised in 48 hours.

The sceptics thought the sound barrier couldn't be broken in a twin engined, rear wheel steered monster.
When 763 mph came along, those same people jumped on the band wagon of their success.

f**k Volvo.
<rant mode OFF>

I'm off to lie down in a dark room now.  :-\