Club Arnage

I’ve been stewing over something that happened this year at Le Mans and thought now was the time get it out onto the forum on Club Arnage and listen to other peoples views on this.

I’ve signed in as a guest for fear of any mindless repercussions against myself or anyone in our group next year at Le Mans, and will therefore keep any details as vague as possible. Could anyone who does recognise us please respect this anonymity. I’ll ask moderators to remove this thread should any names appear.

Our group has been attending Le Mans for 8 years, and most members visit this site very regularly (at least daily) with several contributing on a fairly regular basis…

At the end of the race our team ventured onto the track to watch the prize-giving and open a celebratory bottle of bubbly as we have done for years. A member of our group was carrying a large flag pole which had a Union Jack at the top, and below it was a German flag with the Porsche crest across it.

From this most of you would guess we are British Le Mans fans and were there this year specifically supporting British-run Porsche Team PK Sport in absence of any factory presence from Porsche Gmbh (again!) – BAM Porsche got a good few cheers from us as well. In fact, most of us live in UK and a couple drive Porsches, and those that don’t live in UK are ex-British Army servicemen (who incidentally saw action in the first Gulf War) now living and working in Germany.

As you know Johnny Herbert was also driving an Audi with J.Davies and G.Smith (British blokes in a German machine) as well as many other British/German/other combinations on the entry list – McNish in an Audi, plus another British driver alongside two Russians in a German Freisinger Porsche, etc, etc.

"So, a pretty open attitude towards mixed teams from various countries at Le Mans 2004 then." Or so we thought…

One of our group had a friend in the tribunes above the pits near the start-line and as we stood on the grid looking for him we couldn’t help noticing abusive gesturing coming our way from a bloke in a yellow shirt every time we looked in that direction. If you’re reading this you’ll know who you are.

Every time one of our group looked up towards the crowd this individual took it upon himself to hurl aggressive ‘football hooligan style’ abuse our way. Eventually, this mindless abuse turned into racist Hitler salutes which to say the least p**sed off the British guys who live in Germany.

The  clincher was when he took photos with his digi-camera and gestured to us that "I’ve got photos of you!". Not sure what he planned to do with them – I expect they’ve got pride of place on a racist / xenophobic website by now. "Fame at last! L"

Just to say this unfortunate incident was the first time I’ve ever seen behaviour like this at Le Mans after many years of camping alongside people from all countries, sharing beers and even watching footy matches with rival supporters from other countries.

It actually totally amazed us and put a real downer at the end of what was probably our best Le Mans yet.

I can only guess he is new to Le Mans and therefore doesn’t understand the friendliness and open-attitude which makes Le Mans such an amazing International event every year.

Please, for the future enjoyment of everyone who goes to Le Mans, leave your racist attitude at home. The Le Mans 24 hours doesn’t need people like you.

Hi guest.  I cannot begin to imagine what was going on there.  Sounds more like football hooligans than race car fans.  All very unsavoury.  Commiserations.

Hope it doesn't put you off.  

I agree, it should be left at home. It saddens me to hear about this kind of blatant racism going on, unfortunately we have to accept that it does exist however wrong and depraved an attitude. But there is NO place for it at Le Mans!

Jeez mate, lighten up and let it go for christ sakes.
There's over 200,000 people go to LM, if you're getting upset about the behaviour of one moron, then you're a delicate flower indeed. Ok, it sounds like your yellow shirted spectator was a prize specimen, but so what, that's his problem, walk away and forget about it, he'll still be a moron tomorrow.
In any crowd that size you're going to get some idiots, it's statistically unavoidable, and we had some *rsehole dutch guys sitting behind us in the grandstand, but I see little point in bleating about it. Without digging out any  photos I'll bet you weren't the only fans with British and German flags together, not by a long chalk. Are you seriously suggesting you're afraid of some sort of reprisal? My sympathies if you think this is actually likely, but to be honest it doesn't sound very feasible.
My best advice is to drink less coffee. Have you tried some of those herbal infusions?
H

Mr G.F.A. Day,

This is obviously troubling you, and whilst some may share Mr. H's take, I think we can allow for a little sensitivity without blubbing.

H's is right, they will still be a sad tw@t to this day, and could even be a member of the British tabloid press inciting trouble for a story having not quite reached Portugal...

But the many thousands of true spirited Le Mans'ers should surely help you realise that what is verging upon a religious pilgrimage of peace, good company, fine drinking and really really loud cars far surpasses the unfortunate behaviour of the extreme minority.

To compare it to the events at Glastonbury, where people have been found deceased in their tents, I think the mindless verbal abuse of an individual can be put down to just one of those things.

R.

I'm with H on this one - somewhere, some place there's always something or someone that fires people up, whether it this sort of thing or campsite antics.   On the positive side though, think of the instances at Le Mans where the subject matter is not an issue.   Like the multi-national nature of the campsites where life is, by and large, very good-natured.   Like sitting in front of the big screen in the centre of the pit village, full of English and Danes, a couple of years ago watching the football.  ;D  

GFAD, a shame your weekend was marred by a prat, you do have to put it into context with the masses of good will that is Le Mans that you have experienced over the last 8 years, not say your are wrong to be upset by it, why should anybody be intimidated.

I can certainly see why you were disappointed in the fellow's behaviour.

But those with longer LM memories may recall in the late 80's that some of the Jag fans, somwhat akin to the Union Jack waving "Our Nige" (Mansell) mentality of the day, were less than politically correct. There was a definite footy lout air to proceedings in '88.

I remember a big ruck up between the Brits and Germans in the Beer Keller in the village. Many of the British louts were on their way to Germany for Euro 88. There was a lot of increasingly ill natured banter in the Keller between Jag and Merc/Porsche fans. Neither side were angels. Someone knocked someone else's table and was asked "Ere, did you spill my stein, son?", then a punch was thrown and that was it, off it kicked. Glasses, bottles, tables and chairs were being smashed and hurled in all directions, the baton wielding French CRS were in like a shot.... Not a pleasant memory of LM. But I've been back every year since.

My view is that the behaviour you describe by your yellow shirted nemesis is not racism. It is in fact Nationalism and thus is much easier to deal with. Maybe he should have been wearing a brown shirt?

Mr Guest

I am sorry for you and your friends.

I am a very patriotic person and will with no sorrow jibe people about their German roots for Driving BMW's and Porsche's, but even I wouldnt go as far as to wave hands etc and then take photo's.

It seems a very strange thing to do, but thats life.

People are singles out each and every day, at Le Mans, Iran, Iraq or downtown homesville , or little town.

People work in jobs get simular experiences everydayn without fail, and its shrugged away without a care in the world , why

They dont know me, they were obviously disadvantaged children and were unable to read our British history or think for themselves. Either that or they just have a small willy and no mental thought process.

Why didnt you tell him to poke it, i would have.

Guest,

Just re-read your encounter - are you sure it wasn't Roy 'Chubby' Brown?

Not a problem with Racism, but I was having trouble on Friday night with some w**k*r that decided to rev his motorbike till it bounced off the rev limiter. This at 3 am when everyone at that point was trying to sleep. Had he continued for another 5 minutes more, I was going to walk over there with a can of petrol and a lighter and ask him to stop or I would torch his bike !

200,000 people, there are bound to be a few morons.  I've met a few at Le Mans but I dont let it sour my experience.

[Not a problem with Racism, but I was having trouble on Friday night with some w**k*r that decided to rev his motorbike till it bounced off the rev limiter. This at 3 am when everyone at that point was trying to sleep. Had he continued for another 5 minutes more, I was going to walk over there with a can of petrol and a lighter and ask him to stop or I would torch his bike !

there was me thinking the Panoz retired through mechanical breakage when it was cos' a bloke in fluffy bunny slippers and winnie the poo jim jams turned up at the pit holding a can of petrol complaining about the noise!
only joking