Club Arnage

Anyone local or anyone in the know:

I think this has been discussed before, but can anyone give me clarification on the viability and legality of using radar detectors in France.

I use a V1 system here in the States that picks up most bands; K, micro, and also laser (though if you're picking up laser you're usually screwed 'cos it's already pointing at you).

My old man lives near Le Mans and is seeing a significant increase in Police radar traps near his gaff.  I'm thinking of taking him over a detector like mine when I'm in Europe next month, but am not sure if the bands are the same, and how illegal they are.  I've seen all sorts of stories on line that talk about getting banned etc. etc. if you get caught with one, but it's hard to get clear facts.  Gilles and others, any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dave

Unfortunately it's not a good idea Dave.

They are illegal in France. Not only do you get hit by a large fine, they will simply rip the system out of your car and don't care how much damage they do in doing so (i.e. if you've wired it in behind the dash, expect a damaged dashboard.

To add insult to injury, it is quite common for the Gendarmes to then place the unit under your wheel and make you drive over it!

That said, this is what happens to British cars with them. Perhaps Gilles may know if they are perhaps more lenient to French plated cars??

French plated cars are not driving so fast as yours  :P
BTW these detectors are strictly illegal and just a few people use it

How lenient do the Gendarmes tend to be Gilles??

Here in the UK, if you are doing 80mph on the motorway where the limit is 70mph it is very unlikely they will stop you unless you are also driving erratically. However, do 40mph in a 30mph limit and you'll probably get stopped. I think they normally let you get away with about 10-15%.

Is that similar in France, i.e. 130kmh on the Autoroute you would be able to get away with doing 145kmh??

they're not so tolerant...

... it used to be a 10 km/h tolerance, but with automatic radars, it maybe only 5 km/h upper !  :-\

Thanks Gilles!! BTW, I've still not had anything from you in the post??

Mayube because I didn't find time to send it ...  :-\

 :) Better that way than it be lost in the post!!! :)

Thanks guys - the system would have to be visible (though they make a rearview mirror now with the icons built into it which is pretty cool).  However, to receive signal (especially laser), the unit has to be windshied/dash or sunvisor mounted which would make it in clear view.  My old man speculates that he could pull it down when approaching traffic islands filled with coppers, but I don't think this is viable.

He's got a lovely 540 BM Break that certainly is no slouch, but I think he'll have to lighten his right foot a bit!

Again, thanks for the input.

I got rid of a Snooper Neo a while back, that had an optional behind-grille mount for the sensor, which woiuld be less obtrusive. However I too have heard the horror stories about using these in France so wouldn't recommend...

The Valentine V1 detector that Dave refers to, has both forward and rearward facing radar/laser protection, so has to be mounted on the front windscreen - not a good idea in France, it would seem.

Based on this feedback and what I'm hearing from some other sources, I've advised my old man to slow down.  Sounds like the French plod really don't take a liking to radar detectors.

My V1 has saved my ass countless times (except one instant-on occurance in Michigan where I didn't stand a chance.  On that occasion, I was then hunted down like a dog by the cop who didn't take a liking to my quick highway exit).

V1s appear to be the undisputed detector of choice here in the States.  Are detectors used much in the UK?

Of course, radar detectors are pretty useless in the UK (but legal) as plod almost exclusively use laser technology, and, like you say, once you realise you've been zapped it's already too late. Gatso cameras (which take the photo of the back of your car when you've gone past) project very little radar as you approach them, if you are lucky (and close enough) you get the "bounced" signal from the car in front.

Laser jammers are illegal here, and plod can usually tell when they have been jammed and don't take to kindly to it.

I have SatNav which has a GPS fixed camera locator option - you get warnings at 500 then 300 yards, and persistent beeps if you remain over the limit for the camera. I take my chance on being caught any other way - there are so few TrafPol around these days it's only a slim chance that you'll get caught anyway IMHO.

The new camera system I especially dislike, and which my detector has not a chance with, is the SPECs system.

These read your number plate at a known position on the motorway.  Then, further down the road, another camera logs your numberplate again.

The cameras are at a predetermined distance apart so, distance over elapsed time equals average speed.

These are tied in with the DVLA licensing system, a week or two later you then get a ticket on your doormat.

Whereas people will now brake and slow down for Gatsos, then speed away, with these b*stards you have to maintain a legal average speed over the measured distance.

Take my advice then Smokie, don't overdo it on the speeding front on the M4 in Wales, particularly if travelling beyond J30. All of the remaining TrafPol you mention are on this stretch on the bridges over, hiding in their unmarked vans poking their lasers our way. B**TARDS.

Road Angel is very good, and very popular.

Most SPECS cameras are painted yellow on either Motorway bridges , gantries or silly poles poking out into the lanes.

They can ONLY take your first picture if you are breaking the limit past either the 1st camera , so you get a ticket , the 2nd , so you get a ticket , or if you do both , you get screwwed as it will give your average over a distance of 1 mile, proof you are going too fast.

Observation is the key.

If in doubt slow down a little , let the BMW go past and he will set the cameras off  :D

Its not just speed cameras that are bloody annoying, but traffic lights which are now springing up at every junction that used to have a perfectly sensible roundabout!

Another opportunity to make money as you can't jump a roundabout like you can a red light, you then have to speed to make up the time yo've lost at the red light.

And P+''s poor road design as well just to add to the misery, and slow things down further, all designed to make you take the bus which then makes you late as the traffics so f''''$$ n slow!

moan , moan grumble, not like when I was a lad.

stu

[quote

They can ONLY take your first picture if you are breaking the limit past either the 1st camera , so you get a ticket , the 2nd , so you get a ticket , or if you do both , you get screwwed as it will give your average over a distance of 1 mile, proof you are going too fast.


My understanding is that SPECS takes a pic of EVERY car at EACH camera. The number plate is read and stored digitally. When you pass each camera, your pic is taken and it calculates your average speed between the cameras.  Non speeders registrations are discarded after a certain length of time. The data is held on disk. They are networked "back to base" so the disk will never fill i.e. unlike Gatso and Truvelo they will never "run out of film" and you will never see our friends in blue (or the Speed Partnership people) filling them up.

They are usually in a sequence of at least 3, so you could be done for too fast between 1 & 2, 1 & 3 or 2 & 3. I don't believe they do single shot camera tickets from SPECS.

We dont have SPECS in Hampsire , just lots of TRUVELOs. But the pst i put up is  what  mate from Staffordshire told me about the M6 mess

Try this link although I do not know how up todate it is


http://205.gti.club.pts.free.fr/radars/radars_menu.htm

This from the speedcamera web site

BEWARE : It is Illegal to use or even BE IN POSSESSION of a radar detector in FRANCE.
Expect a £500 fine for possession or £1250 if caught using.
Can't Pay the fine?.... then you'll experience a night in the cells have your car confiscated.

Do they have anything like these sneaky little mobile cash machines in France



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I have seen it reported in the press that even if you leave sticky marks on the windscreen from a detector (that you may therefore have left at home) the French Rozzers may well totally empty your car looking for it.

Yes,
And the same goes for sticky marks anywhere else; personally I blame it on the long drive and that out-of-balance front offside wheel.
What they empty your car looking for will depend on the temperament and inclination of the individual officer I believe.
God help you if you have a Red Snooper.
H

:o One other item about "Detectors" in the US: In jurisdictions where they are illegal, the "Authorities" also have a device called a "VG2". This is a detector that finds radar detectors.  :-X

 :D On the subject of "Circles on the windscreen", you could of course be using a GPS (if you have one).  ::)

In reality radar detector violations are not rigidly enforced in the US - even the conservative states that do not allow their use.

I was surprised by Robbo, Smokie and others revelations about new types of fixed speed traps that photograph no. plates and measure over specific distances for ave speed. It would be great if the plod applied as much creativity to catching criminals and preventing the ever rising tsunami of illegal immigrants into UK.

Here in US, Highway speed enforcement (as opposed to urban, which is a different argument altogether) is purely a revenue generation strategy - and the Cops treat it as such - no lectures about death and destruction - "Where's the fire, sonny?" just book 'em and onto the next one. They don't give a sh*t about radar detectors, even in DC, where they are fabled to have zero tolerance.
In France, I would imagine the nifty Fazer would be more appropriate. This is a radar/laser jammer, rather than a detector. It corrupts radar and laser patterns and again is legal in most states here. Good bit is that you can mount it discretely - even between the radiator and front grille, rendering it all but invisible to the filth and will also confuse an 'instant-on'.
The manufacturer offers to pay speeding fines of users if caught, while using a Fazer (can't help feeling there would be a bit of small-print attached to that offer, however).
Downside is that it is only forward facing - no good if Smokey Bear is sneaking up behind you. Fazer costs around $350.00

But laser jammers over here are illegal, and so when you scramble the display on plods device he will nick you for some other offence anyway (and probab;y do you for speeding too - if there are two of them that share the opinion that you were speeding, that is good enough to get you on (I know that at my expense...)

Use of a jammer in the UK can contravene the 1948 Wireless and Telegraphy Act, so the police will nick you as having operated an unlicensed wireless transmitter outside of the requirements of that Act.

Jesus H Christ , where sis you find old girl.

Never used it or even heard of it.

Interesting articles regarding jammers here:
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/jamlaw.htm (http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/jamlaw.htm)

and about SPECs here:
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/specs.htm (http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/specs.htm)

from Surrey police
http://www.surrey.police.uk/area_item.asp?area=&itemID=4230&division=3 (http://www.surrey.police.uk/area_item.asp?area=&itemID=4230&division=3)

If it's deemed illegal, then there's nowt much to be done, I suppose. However Fazer and Phantom jammers are passive - i.e. don't transmit, but scramble and reflect.
so W&T Act would be hard to enforce.
Cold comfort, as you're being wrestled to the ground and maced at the roadside by Britains finest though.
I think it's interesting to note the difference in attitude to this by law enforcement in UK v US. Here, if you devise a sneaky way to avoid a speeding pinch, the cops devise an even more cunning way to thwart your evasive technology. In Britain, they just bust you regardless, it seems.
I suppose the only solution is to obey the speed limit. Yeah, right.

Obviously Surrey and the rest of the Safety Partnership boys need to do some proper police work ?

Talking of speeding, how long does it take now for a ticket to drop through the door from a hand held camera.

I was on the M4 last week heading west through Wiltshire and am sure he got me, just have to wait and see..............................

14 days seems to be the time limit to serve papers - however there are some exceptions (e.g. if you aren't the registered keeper)

Good Luck!

Yes they do, with the exception that the vehicles are unmarked. They are linked to Gendarmes a little further down the road who will (if you were breaking the limit) pull you over, breathalyse you, and generally give you a hard time before fining you in cash (credit cards not accepted) and sticking you on their national computer.
At the moment they can't put points on your licence or ban you from driving outside France (that's on its way via Brussels), but they CAN ban you from driving in France for a fixed period on the spot.

I lived in France for 2 years... I have what I call my "Wall of Shame", which is where I framed my "souvenirs" of my time in France that were given to me by the Gendarmes... So I have some first-hand experience with speeding and tickets ;-) All those were in a car with French plates.

I later bought a radar detector in the US and used it quite successfully in France and Spain for a while. It was like shooting fish in a barrel - since detectors are illegal, they don't use "instant on"... They set the radar guns up on a tripod and hide behind a bridge or something with the radar gun pinging away. My detector helped save me from several more tickets.

That was all in the "good old days", 3-4 years ago. What has been written here is correct - you get in far more trouble today for being in possession of a detector than for speeding so I haven't used mine in years.

The French have also started to get more serious about speeding. I can't tell you what the threshold is for issuing tickets in France, since mine were for 30-50 kph over the limit. At that time, getting nicked meant paying a 60-90 euro fine and nothing more... with my US license they couldn't issue me points and it was no big deal (which is why I drove how I drove). The fines have recently been raised substantially. I would guess that you could probably cruise at 145-150 kph and not have too many problems?

Since you are coming over from the US you should know that the method is completely different than they use over there. There are very few (no?) rolling radar traps... In the US, Smoky cruises along the interstate and occasionally shoots oncoming traffic to check their speed and may do a u-turn to go get the offender. In France they are all stationary radar traps. Generally after a bridge or building or some object that they may park behind. They then radio ahead to their buddies your license plate number and the kind gentlemen will wave you over to the side of the road, or will be waiting for you at the toll station. You will then have a short chat and they will relieve you of any excess cash you may have. Perhaps 25 days of the month there will be zero speed enforcement, but on the 3rd, the 11th, the 18th and the 27th they will set up one of their radar operations and they'll do a brisk business on those days. They have also recently begun to set up photo radar but they aren't as widespread as other countries yet.

Hope this helps

My understanding was that Laser Jammers were not illergal per se because they transmit light and there is no law against transmitting light.

Hence why the charges of Perverting the course of justice, or obstructing a police officer.  Mind you with most Scameras the operator appears to be a civilian.

I also understood that if you approach a mobile camera and your jammer starts warning you, the trick is to slam the brakes on, reducing speed, turn off the jammer allowing the camera to get a fix on you at a now legal speed.  Not all jammers give a signal to the camera that the camera is being jammed, or is it that not all cameras know they are being jammed.  They just know they can't get a signal.

So if you have a jammer and regularly drive past the same camera with your jammer on the operator is likely to get to know you, and a visit from Plod might be expected.  However used with sense you should be ok.

This is all in theory as I don't have a jammer........yet.

Maybe you can try this theory out when you have and let us know your results!!! ;)

Its much more fun just spouting though!  Anyway not had a need for a jammer yet!  Although I do have a Morheus Geodesy which seems reluctant to update.