Club Arnage

Getting ready to go to the Rolex 24 in Daytona. It's coming up pretty quick. I'm excited to see an actual race, and watch these guys drive some awesome cars.
http://www.motorsport.com/alms/news/level-5-clinches-fourth-championship-with-win-in-virginia/
I'm also excited about the roar. I once lived by a race track, but that's not the same thing as being on a race track!

You're at least 20 years too late. If you hurry and git yourself a passport and visit France in June real soon you might still catch the real thing before it's destroyed on that side of the pond too....  :( :( :(


edit: Are you spectating or driving? (re: "but that's not the same thing as being on a race track!")

I agree with jc, the race is a shadow of what it once was.  Its certainly a good time, hanging out & partying.  But as for the race itself?  I don't expect much out of United Sportscar.  If you do want to go to a USCR race, go to Sebring in March, or Road America, or Watkins Glen over the summer.  The circuit at Daytona is crap, the weather is usually foul, and the folks who work the speedway are about as friendly as a pack of wolves.
Fax

It will be good to see genuine prototypes again at Daytona 2014. Let's hope the end of next year sees the decline of ugly spec cars (DP) masquerading as prototypes.

Also, don't expect Daytona 500 sized crowd at the Rolex 24, the attendance is a tiny fraction. Good natured and enthusiastic, but not as numerous as the Sebring 12 hours and spread-out further.

Hi Arthur,
             I second the opinions already expressed. The Roar as they call it is the test week end so if you like seeing cars come out for a couple of laps and go into the pits for more adjustments go ahead.
The one advantage Daytona has is the view from the grandstand where you can see all the way around the track.
A shadow of it's former self.  For raceday pack a full wardrobe from shorts through to full on winter parka as there will be frost on the bleachers Sunday morning.
Phil

January in Daytona can be perishing cold first thing in the morning then shirt-sleeves at noon. It can also be wet VERY wet. The last time I went (2004) it seemed to rain like a bitch for 23 out of 24 hours. The race was suspended early in the morning for several hours because teams were running low on rain tyres!

Yeah GF, I was there for that one as well, I think we spent more time during the evening at the Hooters across the street watching it on the TV than at the track.  We woke up early AM to the sound of rain, no engines.  At that point we said screw it and drove back to Orlando and watched the finish warm & dry at Matt's house.  Gets seriously cold at night.
Like I said, the people who work there have absolutely zero fan-friendliness.  They're always barking at you for some reason, and if your camped there, the security will start to harass you to get off the property before the podium ceremonies have even finished.  Most of the time they act like the sports car crowd is a necessary evil they have to put up with.
Fax

Hi Fax,
          Thanks for reminding me why I do not go antmore. While the weather is not always as bad as you describe the attitude of Speedway staff certainly is a deterent.
Phil

Interesting. 'Been goin' since 1975 and approaching with a smile and with light, amicable conversation, I have had very little of the above negative attitude (some of course, as you will find in any day to day living)  ???

Not having met any of you (that I know of), I wonder what your approach is...   :)

The only way to go through life, surely...

>Martini...LB

jc, I think if you meet our colleagues on here, you'll find they are a most agreeable group, pleasant company.  A smile, fun, and amicable conversation is a hallmark of this lot.  You would be hard pressed to find a more likeable person than Phil, and we both have similar thoughts on the DIS staff.
I've been to a great many racing circuits, and its the only racing venue I've been to where I've found the staff to be genuinely unpleasant.  And yes, we go there with a smile, and relaxed frame of mind.
Being chased down in the pits by some grossly obese Bubba Buford T Justice, barking at you that you shouldn't be in there, then when you produce your pass he shuts up and goes back to his bucket of fried chicken.  Or one of your group being told that he is going to be arrested, and his perfectly street legal KE100 is going to be confiscated, when a polite please can you park that for the weekend would suffice.  Or the above mentioned episode where as we were fixing some lunch before packing up and heading home, and security came around and started telling everyone that if they weren't packed up and gone in a half hour their campers would be towed.  Things like that wipes the smile off your face pretty quickly.
It all smacks of thanks for coming and spending your hard earned money, now get the hell out.
There are some venues where you truly feel welcome, and part of the event.  I've never felt that way at Daytona, and I've been there more than a few times.  Their attitude seems to be one of you should feel privileged to be able to come here and spend your hard earned income.  My last trip there was for the '08 Daytona 500, because my wife had always wanted to see the 500.  But having fulfilled that request, I'll never set foot back in that dump.
Fax

Daytona security people can be a bit crass. I was once shooting pit stops during the night (about 3am) in the heavy rain, from the outfield with a 500mm sitting in grandstand opposite. I had a photo pass, but wanted to do something different with night pit stops. The seating area was completely deserted apart from me and an assistant with an umbrella to keep me and the equipment reasonably dry. Well you may not know this, but opening umbrellas in the Daytona grandstands is not allowed, (because of the inconvenience to, and blocked view of other spectators). We had been shooting for a few minutes in the soaking wet and deserted grandstand in the wee hours of the morning when a security guard approached us and told us to take down the umbrella. We looked around and asked him who we might be inconveniencing. He just kept on repeating "your'e gonna have to take that down". No pleading or common sense had any effect. Finally he threatened to report us to the 'authorities'. We said "OK you do that". He wandered off and we never saw him again.

Again. Interesting. The tone of your post makes me feel uncomfortable. No offense intended, but I have not had such experience in 38 years of attending....  :-\ ???

edit:


And this happens all the time??? I run into these type as fellow customers in my local environment...if I move am I not going to run into it whereever I end up? I find how I deal with the sitiation is what determines how I feel about my fellow mankinds ways...  ;)

Many feel entitled...egos and whatnot...this is so whereever one goes, no?

'Nuff on this one...  :)

JC, with all due respect, we all deal with rude crap every day, that's life, especially when your working class schmuck's like the wife & I.  You can give us all the sanctimonious bullshit you can come up with, but at the end of the day the reason we go to races is to escape from day to day grind, and animosity.  If I encounter it there, where I've spent the time, effort and expense to visit, f**k them!
Fax

Bit of a shame that the OP, a newbie with just one post to his name, has come on here and joined us all excited about going racing and all we've managed to do is put the damper on it.

Is there any upside to going racing? Anyone?

I think it is a question of setting expectations. Of all endurance racing venues, Daytona is one of the worst suited to the discipline, and the environment is tuned to NASCAR not sportscars. It is worth going for sure, but don't expect to find Le Mans in Florida. For that you need to go to Sebring a couple of months later.

Totally agree with GF's perspective.  Sebring would still be a blast even if they turned it into a 12 hour race for garden tractors.  There's plenty of terrific racing still out there to be enjoyed on both sides of the Atlantic.  Back in Sept we went up to the historic Eldora Speedway to watch the USAC Midgets, Sprints, and Silver Crown cars.  Absolutely fantastic, pure racing, great atmosphere.
Yeah, I don't have much nice to say about anything NASCAR touches doesn't mean I don't love the sport.  Some sanctioning bodies, and venues make it easy to become negative, but hell, I still spend a lot of time at race tracks over the course of a year.
I hope Arthur has a great time at Daytona, he sounds very enthusiastic, that's nice, the racing needs all the support and enthusiasm it can get.

It's alright guys really. Had to step out for the weekend, and didn't have access to the computer.
I understand what everyone is saying. Yes, its going to be cold and uncomfortable, but I'll be there. I picked this race to go to, and I'm sticking with it. Hopefully I can get to a few others this year, but money is tight. So Daytona it is, and maybe next time, Sebring, or even Circuit of the Americas. It's me, my camera, and the cars.

Also, thanks smokie! Don't worry, I don't scare off easy.

"Going" racing hadn't been established. And the post above does establish that it's just spectating. I'll jump into a rent-a-kart at the drop of whatever. But to "spectate", Grand Am (or whatever silly thing it is now) is not the answer. If it's Art's first live race, it will work fer sure. It's just too bad he/she missed out on the good stuff  while it still existed here in the states.

Art, enjoy...I may be there and perhaps we can hook up and I can give ya some pointers. Visit the other boards that are now itertwined... www.americanlemansfans.com . http://www.grand-am.com/FanForums/Forums.aspx . http://garra-fans.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=1

Last time I was at Daytona for the 24h was in 2009.

If it's your first race, you'll enjoy it, I did too when I went there for the first time.  The good thing about a track within a tri-oval is that you can see all the action when sitting at the top of the grandstands opposite the pitlane so you won't have to miss a bit of the action.   Don't be scared off by the empty grandstands, most of the crowd is in the infield, but don't expect any Sebring or LM atmosphere. Evening and nights can be cold, during the day temperatures could become very nice, but as said before be prepared for rain !

As for the staff, I've had good and bad experiences.  They can go bitchy with all their stupid rules about what's allowed and not allowed on the grandstands, especially when you're carrying a lot of photo gear.  I've had trouble getting in with a large backpack, or a tripod ... even once with a monopod and a big lens.  Other years I didn't have any problems, guess it just depends on who's at the gate and what mood they're in.

If they'd had 15 LMP2's or more in TUSC, I'd even go back there too ... would like to see them go over the banking. 

Not literally I hope!  ;)

For the LMP's, no ! For the turtles ...  ;D

I've seen a car go over the banking at Daytona's big sister track, Talladega.  In the old days there was no debris fencing up in the turns because the are no stands there.  Then a car ended up over the banking, down the hill, and in a parking lot.  The next year there was fencing all the way around.
Fax

Just saw this one coming by on twitter :



I beg to differ  >:D ...

At Daytona they like to refer to themsleves as the "World Center of Speed".  At Indy the call themselves the "Racing Capitol of the World".  It's such pompous bs.  The folks in charge at these places are so full of themsleves, especially the France, and Hulman families.  I think Bill France Sr. and Tony Hulman must be spinning in their graves at what their descendants have become.
Fax

True John - and not only to motorsport.
A number of years ago, Mrs B and myself took ourselves south of Miami for a spot of scuba diving at Key Largo.  Imagine our amusement as we drove under a huge sign that proudly announced Key Largo as the 'Diving Capital of the World'.
I subsequently tried explaining this to the locals at places such as Bali, Sipadan, Maldives and the Great Barrier Reef but didn't get much response.  ;D

I understand the amount of history in these tracks. One of the reasons I picked Daytona. I've read lots about racing since the beginning, and now I get to go. Still, I think I'll have an easy time getting in with my stuff...and I usually get along with folks. Its all about the right attitude with those in charge!

I was born in Dayotna Beach.  I have a picture of my mom standing on a 55 gallon oil can in Smokey Yunick's pit on the beach course, smoking a cigarette and pregnant with me in February 1948.

I love Daytona and have taken my son there since he was 6...he's 28.  The clinic at the track is named for Kit Johnson, a friend of the family and the nurse that helped deliver me in the hospital.  I have a deep and emotional love of the track and everything related to it.  Having said that, since the original France family have slowly died off and been replaced by their children that were born with silver spoons in their collective arses things have seemed to deteriorate.  It is still a NASCAR crowd that tolerates sports cars.

If you go there understanding that then you will be OK.  There are always folks trying to "game the system" and the hired help gets pretty sick of it.  The ACO is very tight at LM which then lets the police and workers free up to be helpful.  I have read many posts on this site that blasted the local French for the way they were treated at the race in France.

At Daytona you used to be able to get into the garages and hang with the drivers.  Once my son and I even ended up in the driver's meeting before the race where the rules were being reviewed.  I looked over and there was Daniel standing next to "The Cat in the Hat" Jack Roush.  That has ended but they do have viewing windows into the garages from the fan area.

If you go make sure you get up in the middle of the night and go into the Tower at the start-finish line.  It is very cool to see the race from up there and you will be the only person there.  The DP cars are about as ugly as a car can be but I will return for the first time in years just to see the GTLM cars fight it out for 24 hours.  That WILL be the race to watch. 

I have been going to this race since it started.  I was in the pits when Gurney bumped started his car across the line to win the 3-hour Continental and was there when Porsche won in the 917, the Ferrari's won and the GT-40's won.  The best was with the onld Group C cars.  It was called "the 36 Hours of Florida" then as the same cars would race at Daytona and Sebring.  That may be returning and I welcome it.  Go to the museum and see some of the great Daytona history including the beach race.  My father was best friends with Marshall Teague, a name most of you have never heard.  He wrenched cars with Smokey Yunick, Banjo Matthews and Fonty Flock.

It's Racin' Man!  Enjoy the trip and don't let the negatives get you down!

"Back in the Day" the fences along the top of the banked turns at Daytona were perpendicular to the ground...which made them a perfect launch angle to the track.  Lee Petty, Richard's dad flew over the East turn once and ended up on the ground 50 feet below his launch and 5 months in the hospital.  They soon fixed that.  

One thing you will notice at both Daytona and Sebring is that you can actually get pretty close to the cars as they are racing; unlike Le Mans where you are a very long way from the track and can only see the race from a very few vantage points.  Turn 6  at Daytona heading onto NASCAR Turn 1 you are not more than 30 feet from the cars and in turn 3 and 10 at Sebring they are withing 20 feet.    

PM sent to you.

Hi Arthur,
             Have a good time at Daytona. 67 cars on the entry list so you should have some racing to watch for 24 hours.
when I was spectating this event; I would start by parking the car in the infield and head for Pit Lane for the build up to the start. They open a hole in the fence and let you walk across the track to get to the grand stand. you will ofcourse have packed your back pack with the essentials of rain suit and warm clothes. I would stay up in the grand stand for a few hours i like to wait until the sun has gone down then tear your self away from the action and exit the back of the Grandstand. cross the road to one of the restaurants and have a decent sitdown meal. Back to the track via the tunnel to the infield to view the action in the pits ( from behind) then out to the hairpin and carousel area. after midnight head for your car and a few ZZZZ before waking for the hour before dawn and watching the sun rise and counting who did not make it through the night. Repeat visiting the viewing spots you enjoy and end up for the last 2 hours in the Grand stand again. i used to move the car to the outside behind the grandstand but that may no longer be parking.
Take pictures and let us know how much fun you had. I will be watching on TV
Phil

Entry list

http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/files/races/entry_lists/Daytona%20Entry%20List%201-15.pdf

Spotter/fan guide : http://www.spotterguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2014-IMSA-Viewing-Guide_1.pdf

My favorite time is to go into the Tower after midnight with a good warm jacket and a bottle of Jack Daniels and watch the race evolve at night.  There you can hear the overnight announcer, a Daytona legend talk about all kinds of cool history and little-known stuff about the cars running and their drivers.

Try it, you'll like it.

As for rude staff, my experience is a balance between the two.  My best experience was when my son and I had a small bag of my dad's ashes.  He was born in Daytona (as was I) and had died the week before.  My son was a freshman at UF and came home for the funeral and the race.  My friend Jim went with us to the start-finish line to photo the event.  It was Sunday morning of the Rolex 24 about 8am.  As we approached the line from the grandstands a security guy came up on his scooter.  We told him we planned to dump my dad's ashes on the line and did he have a problem with that.  He said "i can't let you do that!" and then rode off on his scooter headed for NASCAR 1 turn never to be seen.  We dumped the ashes, got the photos, and shed a bit of a tear.  It was all good!

Is it me, or is something wrong with the BOP between LMP2 and the turtles ?
Last year, a DP was merely faster than an ALMS GT car, now they are almost seconds faster than an LMP2. 

First decent prototype is 11th after qualifying, couldn't believe it when I followed the qualifs yesterday.

Are there any channels live streaming the 24hour - Does anyone know?

Hi Dottore,
Yeah, they've got things so screwed up with the equivalency regs.  It's seems pretty clear to me that NASCAR wants to see their DP's succeed come hell or high water.
Fax

All I've got is:
http://www.imsa.com/sites/default/files/takeovers/01152014_Rolex24_HomepageTakeover_295x544.png

'Don't get Foxxports2 here either... :( >:( ???

Try this http://stream.speedtv.com/rolex24
or this http://www.justin.tv/nascar49speed

or just google IMSA Tudor and see what come up.
Phil

I can't help wondering if Memo Gidley had been in a carbon tub rather than NASCAR style tube frame, he might have been in slightly better shape after his accident.

'Don't know...that was one 'ell of a hit he made with the Ferrari.  :-\

'Just glad it wasn't worse.  ;)

Agreed GF, I was thinking the very same thing.  Plowing into the heavy end of the Ferrari was going to be violent, but can't help but think a carbon monocoque would have protected Memo better than a spaceframe.  Gidley's facing a long recovery, I wish him the best.  He usually take's stab at qualifying for the Indy 500, won't be happening this year.
Big props to Barbosa, Fittipaldi, and Bourdais.  Terrific drive by all three.
Fax

First race I have seen for a while with the DP's in. Was pleasantly surprised that they did not look like the sack of spaners they used too, hint of a Porsche GT1 in the corvette DP I thought.

Don't really know enough about the chassis to know if a carbon tub would have protected memo better, but I'm just thankful he will be okay and the year did not start with another death for a sportscar driver.

Close raced spoiled by the shocking penalty for the Ferrari at the end, how can you have a penalty for avoidable contact when there was no contact?

The P2's need a bit more reliability and speed, but Sebring will be more to their liking I hope. Looking forward to the next one.

The speed of the P2 cars is entirely in the hands of the regulators. They are well capable of leaving the steel framed dinosaur DP cars in a cloud of dust if their engines were not restricted (almost literally) to death, but that wouldn't suit the strategy of the new regime, who would prefer a DP in winners circle.

The new system seems to be: Adjust BOP until the practice times suit your strategy, then if during the race the final order doesn't please you, apply random time penalties until it meets with your approval.
 

The DP cars would not pass the crash test to be able to race at Le Mans. A carbon tub and a decent crash structure on the front would have helped.

Some interesting thoughts here :

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2014/the_way_it_is_no418.html

Last line says it all ...

NASCAR / France enterprises, have never properly understood sportscars or endurance racing. Despite running Grand AM for a decade they still don't get it. I noticed the website coverage had driver names on the live leader board rather than car the names of the cars. Le Mans and ALMS, is and was, primarily car focussed racing, not driver-centric like open wheel formulae and NASCAR. Ask any endurance fan who won Le Mans last year and you will get the name of the car not the drivers. TUSC have yet to work this out. Grand AM introduced the 'spec car' Daytona Prototype to make sure that the series didn't evolve into a GT only grid, but the DP is a phoney prototype and 40 years behind the technology of prototypes that run at Le Mans and in WSC. The year the DP cars first ran (2003) at Daytona the GTs were actually quicker and it was a GT that won overall (Racers Group Porsche 911 GT3-RS). That is indicative of how good that organization is at regulating a series. Grand AM has always been a bit of a buggers muddle as far as regulations are concerned, and the unholy mash-up of ALMS / ACO / Grand AM rules is confusion squared. Don't expect it to settle down either, it is likely continue to be a regular game of tweak and catch-up to aggravate the teams, with random last minute BOP changes.

You only have to compare this shambles with the ACO/WEC gradual evolution strategy to see just how wrong they are getting it.

Best quote I heard personally on this issue was from Kyle Petty (of all people) when he was driving a Porsche in the Rolex while the WSC cars were still there.  Someone asked him in the garages what was the major difference between NASCAR and sports car racing.  His reply was at NASCAR they all want your picture and autograph.  At The Rolex folks say, "Hi Kyle.  Good to see you.  Could you slide over a bit so I can get a shot of your car?"

At Sebring on Friday night many of the drivers walk over into the Zoo and get into the crowds and almost nobody really recognizes them.

I went to Daytona last weekend for the first time in 8 years.  I had a good time but missed a lot of the European flavor that used to be present (read: beautiful European women) in the garages before the race.  I also didn't hear much French.  In the Porsche garage it was mostly German as expected...but my sense was that all the mechanics there also spoke English.

I watched the start of the race from the Bud Fan Zone.  That is the platform above the bus stop that used to be bleachers on the back stretch.  Great place to view the race!  Everyone should try it at least once.  The tram takes you right to it.  Another observation...though there were lots of people; the limit on infield car passes made it much easier to get around.  Big improvement.  I still would love to see the P-1 cars on the banking at night.

Another good read re: the demise of ALMS...

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/2014/1/27/the-nascar-ization-of-major-league-sports-car-racing-a-bitte.html

As many of us have said from the beginning of Grand-Am, its NASCAR's idea of sportscar racing.  They're going to go about it the same way they go stock car racing.  Low tech, lots of orchestrated racing.  I was seriously bent out of shape when they posted the schedule, and Mid-O wasn't on the calendar, but having watched that hot mess this past weekend, I don't feel so bad about them not going to the MOSCC this year.  And it'll be a cold day in hell when I burn a vacation day to go to IMS on a Friday to watch the France family dog & pony show.
Fax

It would be interesting to know how the arthursykes got on - being a fresh pair of eyes so to speak.

F

Oh dear.  This side of the pond sports car racing gets butphucked by F1 and Eckleston every few years so we're used to it, so don't worry about it.

And 911s always arise from the ashes, like cockroaches from a nuclear holocaust.  So I just hope you like 911s :(

Successfully indoctrinated, are you?  ???

Next, I suppose you'll be enjoying soylent green....  :'(

I love 911's