Club Arnage

Rumours abound regarding the 'merger' of ALMS and Grand Am. What have you heard?

It's a done deal.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/sportscar-alms-grand-am-finalizing-merger/

http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewArticle.cfm?articleUID=8399BB0A-9E98-DCF5-8331F9E648DA6CDA&custUID=858ADB2B-1143-FDC9-357B889EBDC9CBA6&_sessionID=GARQQN5PYN&_subSessionID=QKQSDN3ICN

Expect a class for the delta wing ::)

I think it's a sensible merger. Times are tight and similar series trying to attract similar punters in such times is pure folly. There have been some great GT scraps in the ALMS this year but it's been a little thin in the LMP class.

As it looks more and more like the FIA have at last got the ACO on the leash, a stronger American series could prove to be a godsend.

And as for Deltawing? I hope it finds somewhere to race. Love it or hate it, it did get more column inches* than anything else at Le Mans.



*I'm sure there is a joke to be had somewhere between a car that looks like a cock and the phrase 'column inches'?

Si

... as I said, 'rumours abound'. Only truly 'done' when 1. Official announcement and 2. The series actually merge.

The question here is not so much will-it-or-no but what form a merged series might take.

Could go either way, I hope they speed up the DP's rather than slow the ALMs P1 and 2s!

It makes alot of sense to bring the 2 series together, but there needs to be harmony re the any regs with the rest of the world, but that maybe with the DTM style of car rather than a P1 style.

Toyota are going to want to race in the USA I would have thought, (being the first hybrid to win dayota would seen to be the untaken crown of this era), as are Porsche. Audi don't seem that keen, but if the others turned up, then I am sure they would as well, if they do go the DTM route then there are already 3 makers with cars ready to roll, all 3 also big sellers in the USA.

If the series goes its own way and contine down the DP route, then it will still be the US vs the rest of the world and no one gains much. Harmony is needed.

I did read that it was Panoz's wish to sell the ALMs that has triggered this. Didnt know he was even still involved.

My feeling is that Toyota are pressing for this, they have ties to NASCAR and there is a clear link between NASCAR and DP teams. Toyota need a platform to showcase thier hybrid tech in the USA. Makes sense for Honda, BMW, Audi and Merc too.

Not sure FAX is going to like it, not a fan of the France Family if I recal.

Call me cynical but... It all smells fishy to me. The France empire appears to subsidise Grand Am, rather than making a profit from it. I think that one of the reasons they do it, is to piss in the pond of the ALMS to taint and dilute American sportscar racing so that it will never become sufficiently popular as to challenge their stock car series'.

I can only think of one reason for Grand Am to absorb ALMS, and that is the same motivation that drove SKY to 'merge' with BSB. By 'merge', I mean in the same way a shark 'merges' with a drowning man.

I can see very little positive about this development, but at least it clears up the mystery of the occasional ACO blazer turning up at Grand Am events over the last couple of years.

Correct Nordic, not entirely thrilled with this rumor.  However, one strong, united series is going to be better than two diluted.  The France family actually has a long history with sportscar racing, Bill France Sr (NASCAR founder) was a great fan of the sport, and the 24 Hours of Daytona was his brainchild.  His grandson is still a regular competitor in Grand-Am.  If they can merge with a satisfactory regs package (to both competitors and fans alike) it could be a succesful merger.  Grand-Am has loosened up their GT regs in recent years to attract more exotic manufacturers, and the ALMS desperately needs bigger prototype grids, perhaps Grand-Am will allow for more high tech prototypes. It could work, but I'm always suspicious of France family motives.
Fax

Apparently, there's a press conference tomorrow morning 10 am, just received a mail about it : "Breaking News: Live Press Conference Regarding Sports Car Racing In North America"
Live press conference : see the future.

I'm with Fax on this one, not really excited about it.   
If they'll merge the two series, the big question will be which rules will apply to the new one.  The only way to go seems to stay with ALMS rules (connection with ACO/WEC en Le Mans entries that can be won) and blend in a seperate class for the Grand AM prototypes (and eventually GT's or take them up in a GTC class).  However, if the France clan is involved, I tend to fear for everything that's ALMS.  When they want to merge, they'll do it to finally earn some money with it ... I don't think Grand AM is a money-making series at the moment.

First details ...

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/grand-am-details-of-alms-unification-emerge/P1/

Mental note to myself : must get to Road Atlanta next year, no matter what.

Would make more sense to equalise the DTP cars with FLM, rather than slowing down the P2 class. Who remembers the first year of DTP when some of the GT cars ended up being faster than the slow and UGLY DTP field."

The idea of seeing DTPs at Sebring is really depressing.

I guess ALMS GT isn't that much slower than the current DTP's.  Maybe it's time to get some more power in those DTP's and put them, as you say in FLM.
Slowing down the LMP's means the end of them.

The ACO statement on the 'merger';


The ACO is delighted about the merger between the American Le Mans Series and Grand-Am

The Automobile Club de l’Ouest is delighted about the rapprochement between the American Le Mans Series and Grand-Am Road Racing in 2014.
 
In 2014, the calendars of the American Le Mans Series, organized by IMSA, and the Grand-Am Road Racing governed by NASCAR will merge following an agreement reached between the promoters of both competitions.

The Automobile Club is delighted about this merger, which will increase the already large audience for endurance in North America and at the same time boost its international impact. The quality of the two organizations combined is a guarantee of confidence concerning the perpetuation of the values and prestige of the Le Mans 24 Hours on the American continent, which are indispensable elements for endurance racing.

In its role as creator and organizer of the Le Mans 24 Hours since 1923 and promoter of the FIA World Endurance Championship, the ACO will play an active role in the development of this new championship.

The ACO has been a major player in endurance on the North-American continent and it launched the ALMS with its partner Don Panoz in 1999, after the creation of the Petit Le Mans race in 1998 on the Road Atlanta circuit in Georgia.

In 2013, the American Le Mans Series and Grand-Am will continue to run separately like in previous seasons. The details of this unified series under the same banner will be announced later on by the promoters of this new championship. It will begin with the 52nd Rolex Daytona 24 Hours in 2014.

The steering committee of this new championship will be presided by Jim France, the founder of Grand-Am as Chairman with Don Panoz, the ALMS founder as vice chairman. The other members are Lesa France Kennedy (NASCAR Executive Vice President), Ed Bennet (CEO/President Grand Am), Scott Atherton (President/CEO ALMS) and Karen Leetzow (NASCAR Vice President and Deputy General Counsel).

Pierre Fillon, President of the Automobile Club de l’Ouest: “The merger of these two championships, which was carried out with the approval of the Automobile Club de l’Ouest, has become necessary to enable endurance racing to continue to evolve. In 2014, this branch of the sport will have a bigger calendar and high-quality fields. Everybody will benefit from this unified series: entrants in North America, drivers and fans. This rapprochement proves that Automobile Club de l’Ouest’s assessment of the situation is the right one, and one of its major initiatives is to reinforce the presence of endurance racing on the international scene. The foundation consists of three continental series: the European Le Mans Series, the Asian Le Mans Series and this North-American merger in 2014, which will make the base even stronger together with the FIA World Endurance Championship, while the summit of this pyramid remains the Le Mans 24 Hours. I’m happy to meet up with the new team directing this new series in the near future, and to start working with them on this North-American Championship.”

Really don't know what to make of this, agree with Big Cheese, the thought of DP's at Sebring is pretty depressing.  While they've become somewhat quicker in recent years, they're still very much a dumbed-down prototype.  NASCAR's idea of a sportscar.  A clunky, spacframe chassis, stuffed with a big V8, very little high tech about them.  As mentioned previously, Grand-Am has been kept afloat mostly by the France family, and NASCAR money.  North American fans have shown little interest in it, in both attendance, and TV ratings.  They're going to have to come up with something clever to keep the ALMS fans interested or the whole thing will collapse in a couple of years.  NASCAR needs to stick to selling their stock car series to the Bubba factor (their TV ratings and attendance have been shrinking as well) and leave sportscar racing to people who understand it.
Fax

I watched the press conference and took some notes.  Will try to put them together in something readable.

What struck me most is that it's already clear there will be no place for LMP1, I even fear for LMP2.   Hope we won't be stuck with DTP's.
Panoz wants to keep somekind of link with the ACO and Le Mans. France gave the impression to agree on that, but I won't put my money on it.

Quick notes, gives an idea of the pressconference.  Most interesting is the Q&A afterwards, gives already some insight (and is less hopefull for ALMS fans than the press releases on the net)


Jim France (Nascar.Grand Am)
Don Panoz (ALMS)
Scott Atherton (ALMS)
Ed Benett (Grand Am)

France
- milestone occasion
- GA - ALMS will be 1 sportscar organisation
- 2013 : schedule as 2012, 2 championships
- 2014 starting with Daytona 24h and Sebring 12h : combined championship north America

Panoz
will be vice chairman
- exciting time for fans of sportscar racing
- alms now has even rules, even field
- racing for the fans
- long discussions with Jim  -  Merge will get sportscar racing to reach its pinnacle

Atherton
- first attempt was 5 years ago
- Non disclosure agreement
- first meeting 6 months ago, France took the initiative
- Spoken with manufacturers & teams -> enthousiasticly received.  Many of them present at press conference

Benette
- new CEO since this year of Grand am
- very agressive timeline, went very fast & smooth.  Bold move to merge
- 8 series connected with GA/ALMS

______

Q&A

BF : schedules, name of series tba

Class structure : Atherton
Too early to be definitive.  Vision established, practical application yet to be determined.  Very complex to bring it together, technical side has to start;  Wants to get it right in the first time

Implementing cars & drivers.  View for 2014
Bennett : full field of exciting sportscars, international flare.  Input teams & manufacturers (what they sell in showroom);  collective effort

Combined championship - how occurs to Rolex 24
Atherton : product of process blended together best & brightest of both series.  That basis & vision, strenght of each series : best of the best example
GT ALMS : reference high watermark that type of racing : will be addition to 24h Daytone
Most important merging in addition to technical = schedules - best  tracks 4* tracks.  Daytona 24 Sebring 12
France : beleives in global recognition

Nascar journalist
Panoz : importance cars being able to compete in Le Mans
Common testdays with teams, make cars competitive.  Attention to fans, sponsors & their comments.  Le Mans : teams being able to go to LM, teams maying drop points of 1 race.  No words about protorypes
trying to find solutions to get greatest sports car series in the world

ALMS relation with ACO
Meeting with ACO (president), suprised about merge.  very productive discussion.  Jim France : important priority to retain link with ACO and Le Mans.  Vision & plan : retain relationship with ACO ... easier said than done , up to the task

Technical regulations - combo ALMS/Grand AM
Ed : acces to relations & personnel 2 series + FIA consulting
Tyres : to be seen

Schedule : number of races
Very preliminary, number talked about is 12.  Tied to television partnerships.  Daytona/Sebring/Le Mans = full schedule

Minefield sponsors tracks ACO FIA ...
What in common behind the obvious
JF : passion sportscar racing & great events, both investmenst in SC racing.  Both great teams & experience.  JF : personnaly no obstacles to put it together
DP : ACO.FIA -> do what's good for combined series ... deal with sponsors/organisations ... do the best   bitten by LM, this is USA with their own fans.  Will be adressing what sponsors & fans want

Economic impact -> more racefans ?
JF : increased interest, Daytona all over the world, international interest.  Teams come over to compete in Daytona AND Sebring
SA : underreported : asset of DP in new group (DIS ?).  Big asset to own your venue in addition to the content that comes into it.  Colaberatiev effort between Daytona & Sebring, coproduced & organised  ...   Don(t know how far this is going to get

WEC - Alternative tech ?
DP : alternative can be accepted
WEC : LMP1 -> beyond what ALMS & Grand AM capable of - manufacturers playfield.  Not thinking of LMP1 class or prototypes.  New series : American sportscars - take care of own business in own market  - act responsably in own interest.  
SA : intention for relationship with ACO, 2014 and beyond still to be written

concern Gt class in ALMS (best road racing in world) fear to wind down on to Grand Am standards
2 classes : GT1 & GT2
SA : GT ALMS as good as it gets, every type of car, believe to retain to have succesfull competition.  Current content ALMS agreed to be part of combined series.  Fears to rest : plan is to retain GT as in ALMS now
BF : GT in rolex also very good.  looks for competitive event - still to figure out how

The ACO are very protective of their carefully weighted technical regulations that change slowly enough not to upset teams, manufacturers and partners. Changes are often announced up to 2 or 3 years ahead of coming into force. I can't see the ACO carving-up ACO regs for 2014 just to please Grand Am.

Although the ALMS runs to ACO regs, only a handful of ALMS teams come to Le Mans these days compared with ten years ago. If the France empire takeover reverses that trend then I'm in favour of it, just so long as those ugly tubular steel frame phoney protos stay the other side of the Atlantic.

This is Larry Morgan (of Turn 10)'s synopsis of the press conference.

Just watched the live stream of the combined press conference of Grand-Am and ALMS, at the Daytona 500 Club, and here is my synopsis. The conference lasted a little less than an hour, and both put me at ease, as well as left a lot of unanswered questions. Four main individuals were seated at the head table...Jim France, Dr. Panoz, Scott Atherton and Ed Bennett, who all spoke and then fielded questions from the press. I'll address what I perceive as the unanswered questions first:
 
1) Road Atlanta and Sebring, as well as Watkins Glen, are "in the mix", but no mention of "ownership" of the tracks. All three track managers were present. Scott Atherton alluded to the fact that Dr. Panoz' assets (meaning the tracks), were brought to the merger along with Watkins Glen. No mention was made of Mosport.
 
2) Tech specs (formula) is yet to be determined. It appears both DP and Prototypes will be included, but not necessarily LMP1!
 
3) Relationship with FIA, WEC, and ACO is still to be determined! (see comments below).
 
4) Tires, whether single source or multiple manufacturers, is yet to be determined.
 
5) Sponsors for series yet to be ironed out. (both Rolex and Patron were present).
 
6) Support series are also to be determined.
 
What was present, however, was a mutual passion and dedication to sportscar racing, especially in North America, and a mutual dedication to insure that sportscar racing in North America continues and, in fact, develops into the premier sportscar series in the world! (I sensed, personal opinion only, that they have had it with WEC, ACO and FIA!)
 
Another interesting fact: Discussions on the merger started 6 months and 14 days ago on a golf course between Jim France and Dr. Panoz. It was precipitated by some discussions with Scott Sharp and Ed Brown with Jim France at the previous Daytona 24, and later discussions between Scott Atherton and Jim France, before the golf match. They touted it as the best kept secret in motorsports history! Discussions were held with sponsors, teams, manufacturers, etc., in the ensuing days.
 
Now, for the overall summary:
 
1) Grand-Am and ALMS are merging into one organization, with the goal of sportscar racing "reaching it's pinnacle" and becoming the "premier sportscar series in the world"!
 
2) The 2013 schedule for both series will continue as originally planned for 2013.
 
3) Beginning with the Daytona 24 in January 2014, the two series will run as one as a combined North American championship series, followed by the Sebring 12 Hr, which will be co-produced, co-advertised, etc.
 
4) Dr. Panoz will be the Vice-Chair of the Board of Directors for the new series.
 
5) The name of the new series is yet to be determined.
 
6) It is the desire of the new series that they continue their relationship with the ACO and the 24 Hr. of LeMans, and is also the wish of the new head of the ACO, but it was made clear that the first priority lies with the fans in North America, the manufacturers, and the teams. As was stated..."After all, this IS a North American series"! They would "like" however, to have a few teams qualify for LeMans. As stated, "it's easier said than done", but they are "up to the challenge".
 
7) It is too early to determine the "class structure", but almost certainly, the GT categories of both ALMS and GA will continue.
 
8) Combined practice sessions of the various classes will be held prior to establishing the final formula.
 
9) It is anticipated that the 2014 Daytona 24 and Sebring 12 will attract more fans and more entries, with many teams fielded from "overseas" with both domestic and international manufacturers.
 
10) DP's were "alluded to" as continuing, with the caveat that they were taking into consideration, the previous investments and the commitment of the teams. It wasn't that strong, however, so my personal feeling is that the DP's will eventually disappear, probably by attrition.
 
11) The schedules will be merged with the "best and brightest" of both GA and ALMS cars. Initial thought is a 12 race series. Certainly, Daytona, Sebring, Road Atlanta and Watkins Glen will be on the schedule, with the remaining tracks to be decided. I would think that Mid-O, Road America, and other "MAJOR" tracks would be there also. In all likelihood, (my opinion) all the ISC tracks would be included. The ability to negotiate favorable television packages will also play a role.
 
12) The Delta Wing car is "part of the agreement" and still in the mix. Again, it was emphasized that LMP1 was beyond the current capability of GA and ALMS, but DP's and LeMans Prototypes will be continued, but they will take care of the "American series" and "OUR interests" first.
 
So...there you have it. Apparently, there is still a lot of work to be done, and we still have no vision as to what to expect, but I sensed a total commitment from both series to make this work.
 

As for a 12 race schedule, mine would be lined up like this, Daytona 24, Sebring 12, Long Beach (with the Indycars), Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, Break for LeMans, Road America, Watkins Glen 6Hrs, IMS, Circuit GV Montreal, Mosport, Lime Rock, Road Atlanta Petit LM.
My guess, but can think of another handful of venues that would work as well if they want a bigger schedule, or don't want to share dates (Long Beach, Indy, Montreal) as has been a regular feature in the past of both ALMS and GA. Sears Point, Barber MS Park, New Jersey, VIR, Miller MS Park Utah would all work nicely.
I would think Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, Road America, Mid-Ohio, Mosport, and Road Atlanta are all absolute's, beyond those, who knows?
Fax

Heaven knows if the WEC will survive until 2014, but lets imagine for a moment that it does, and that it includes LM P1 (including Porsche LM P1 hybrid). The combined Grand-ALM (sans P1) series would probably not want to be hosts of the American round of WEC. So WEC would thus be denied the Rolex 24 and Sebring. That would probably be the final stake through the heart of the WEC if it manages to stagger on that far.

If history is anything to go by, the France empire, although they make liberal use of the words 'international' and 'world' in their statements, will in actual fact have zero interest in anything outside the 48 contiguous American states, except perhaps for Le Mans.

 

Cant really see either side budging much on the P1 situation, Le Mans needs fast dynamic cars, Grand-Am needs cheap and big grids.

If the WEC does all fall apart then Le Mans becomes a stand alone race, maybe with a small series of races around the world, which could be what the major players, Audi and Toyota want anyway.

The growth of P2 and GT would be the only possible common ground, but I would suggest a P2 is worlds apart from a Grand Am in concept, but maybe there could be some formula to equalise lap times (that would end up a mess of backbiting and BoP regs)

I hate to the idea of a fudged together formula, so hard to take as it is, maybe its best if each does go its on way in terms of prototype for next few years to allow common ideas to develop over the next 5 or so years.

I see no reason why there should be any differance in worldwide GT regs, other than to trying to put on over each other.

trying to get rid of fast quiet  european diesels?dont like hybrid technology?oil company rep on the board?the plot thickens.

You'll get your wish.

The Diesel Pugs are history and the Audi R18 will step aside for the new Porsche petrol powered hybrid proto. Don't forget that the Toyotas are petrol too. The Audis are the last of the oil burners.

Not so if the upper management at Porsche are to be believed. They have stated several times that Audi will continue to compete at the highest level. They see potential Porsche victories as hollow victories without beating the team that has dominated over the last decade. It also makes commercial sense for Audi to retain a presence- they have sold a huge amount of cars on the back of their Le Mans success. And all that money ends up in Porsche's coffers.

However, wether they continue with a diesel is another matter. They will go for whatever option is most effective within the regulations.

at lm the doc said they dont race petrol engines as they have no future in modern cars.his words on radio le mans interview.

In the words of Mandy Rice-Davies "he would say that wouldn't he?"

Audi races diesel engines for the same reason as Peugeot did. The ACO regs were skewed to favour 'alternative fuels' so factory teams developed hi-tech diesels. The recession killed off Peugeot but Audi soldier-on, even though the diesel advantage has now thinned considerably. Whatever the good Dr U says about it, Audi go to the race track to sell cars, and racing success sells cars. If that means running diesel engines then so be it. You can bet your ass if the ACO pendulum swung the other way, they would have a petrol power in the blink of an eye.

I'm not completely convinced that the sporting regulations favoured a diesel. The diesel factory cars were quicker because they had more development money. Audi chose diesel as a marketing tool, as did Peugoet; afterall both companies sell more diesels than petrol cars. Audi wanted to sell diesel cars to the Americans, Peugoet, diesels to the East. If they had developed petrol engines, they would have been faster than none factory cars just as they had been for the rest of the decade. I think only our friend Henri believed that diesel as a fuel had an advantage. And we now see how wrong he was. Toyota have developed a petrol engined car that is every bit as quick as a diesel Audi. There has been no radical change in the sporting regs, just sufficient resources to build a competetive petrol powered package.

Audi will continue to champion whatever technology the marketing department want. They could build a winning car even if they wanted to run it on Ribena....and of course Dr U would tell us that it the best option.

Si
 

My guess is that te future of LMP1 will depend on how many teams/manufacturers are willing to compete in the category after the new regs in 2014.
Will it only be Audi and Porsche in 2014 or will there be more entries.  Can't image Porsche will build and develop an LMP1 without being sure that they won't be the only ones in the class.

If however we have Porsche, Audi and Toyota, LMP1 might have a future ... but only at LM or WEC. 

Quit with ELMS and Asian Le Mans Series and make the WEC also a championship with 12 races and there might be a good chance of survival in it.  6 or more rounds in Europe shouldn't be a problem I guess ? (Le Mans, Spa, Silverstone, Monza, Le Castellet, Nürburgring (Nordschleife would be awesome, but too dangerous) ...).  Add Road Atlanta, Austin and a few others and you could have a great championship.

back to the world endurance championship and imsa then.

The Delta wing to run at petit le mans and next years alms. Panoz building a run of them. According to motor sport magazine.

For all the good words from France & Panoz, and the 'encouragement' from the ACO (did anyone else read the press release and think it sounded like it was written with clenched teeth?) I think it will end up dumbing down the prototype categories and ultimately morph into a big GT series - which may be exactly what everyone there wants; but with Toyota (with an effectively tiny budget) currently sticking it to Audi it would be a shame to see such prototypes denied the big US race tracks from 2014. I guess time will tell and we may be worrying over nothing ....

An American perspective on the ALMS - Grand Am mash-up series.

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/ (http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/)

It would be a pity (to my mind anyway) if the Grand-ALMS does turn into just-another-tedious-GT-series as so many American voices seem to want. Panoz and the ALMS brought Le Mans to America, but now it seems that America can no longer afford it. If that is really the case then mothball the whole ALMS idea until it can be done properly again. Please don't do the watered-down cheapskate DTP version, or just pretend that prototypes don't exist and go the GT route. "Yeh, we're going to have a Le Mans series... but just the GT class", is like Saying we're going to have an F1 race but only allow GP2 cars.

Agree, would hate to see it turn into a GT only series.  Like I've said, my plan would be a purpose built for racing silhouette class, and a seperate GT class.  I'm convinced it would work, but what do I know, just an enthusiast on the outside looking in.  And when I refer to silhouette, I don't men DTM, or something along those lines.  From my understanding DTM regs are pretty restrictive, I'd like to see something a little wilder.  I refer to a later day Group 5 as something I would to see.
But I agree with his assessment that they need to ditch the current prototypes, both LMP1&2, and DP.  There's just no interest there.
Fax

I don't understand your downer on LMP1?  Two mega manufacturer trading massive blows currently, with a third due to enter the fray shortly..... if all three teams enter 2-3 cars, you're into the realms of the 80's glory days.....

Don't get me wrong, I love prototypes, especially spyders, nothing makes me more warm & fuzzy than the thought of a Ferrari 312PB, Matra 670, Alpine Reanault A442, or Porsche 936.  I'm basing my opinion on what I think will work in the North American market, not what I find sexy.  This market has lost its appetite for pure protos.  The manufactures haven't helped the ALMS prototype cause with their policy of showing up for one or two races a year, snatching up the hardware, and then blowing off the rest of the schedule.
Fax

Share your love for gp5 type racers. Nothing finer than a 935 or M1, but in reality that was all there ever was, nothing could touch a 935 over a long-distance race.

I really can't see any manufacture putting money into yet another type of racer. I think the only way it would work would be to have a common set of regs with an existing series. Your right the dtm is a shadow of its former self, the japanese gt would be a better fit I think. The thought of an international series for them would I think tempt Porsche and others.

Yep Nordic, give me a 935, or a fire breathing 320, enormously spectacular cars, and there's much of my point.  I get the technology of prototypes, and appreciate how mind blowingly quick they are, but I'm not at all representative of the average, Joe Blow, US racing fan.  Your typical casual racing fan here wants to see something really spectacular, and honestly the current protoypes, especially the oil burners are uninspiring to watch.  My wife is probably more typical of the average casual fan, and she finds them boring as hell, as she's says "when racing cars go past, you should feel the noise in your beer, and the concusion in your chest, they should look fast as well as being fast".  Its why discplines like NASCAR and NHRA meets are so popular, they're something that you walk away from thinking "Christ! that was something else!"
One other thing that may be most important of all, that the new series needs to do?  Finally break the common perception that sporstcar racing is just for the spoiled, entitled, moneyed, few.  Many racing fans here love to refer to the sportscar scene as "the Wine & Cheese crowd".  And its not a compliment!  And it isn't helped by a often condescending attitude by the teams and fans alike toward other disciplines of the sport.  Sportscar fans should try to embrace fans of other types of racing, and turn them into converts, instead of alienating them with pompous attitudes.
Fax

I agree about the 'stealth' diesels. They just don't have the same appeal as they should. I remember photographing the Audi's the first time out at Sebring, and they were so much harder to shoot in some locations because you couldn't hear them coming! They also caught out the TV guys in the pitlane for the same reason.

If only race cars all had to look and sound like this...
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4005/4456586982_5eb513bdb4_z.jpg)

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/gt-dtm-super-gt-join-forces/

Wonder what would happen if the new USA series adopted these regs?

With Audi, bmw,  merc,  plus all the Japanese already making cars and the USA a big market for all of them it would be a shortcut to a large grid of cars that the punter can relate too.

I think your onto something here Nordic, could very well be the dircetion to go in.  Simply adopt the same regs, and presto!  Full field of cars.
Fax

hhhmmm...  Half of which are saloon cars, not my idea of GT/Endurance racing, but each to his/her own I guess.

Quite so!

The Bimmers looked terribly out of place at Le Mans. I'd draw the line right there. Otherwise we will end up with the de facto Autotrader definition of 'sports car' :-).

Le Mans 'feeder' series need comply with ACO regs, that is a no-brainer. If you mess around with regs you distance your series from the 'gold standard' event in June. If Le Mans is now irrelevant to racing in the USA then so be it, but I think that might ultimately end the long heritage of Americans in La Sarthe, which would be a great pity, and would de-value Le Mans too.

DTM cars will easily outpace the DP's, so I don't think they'll allow those in.   The current GT's are nearly slower than the DP's.
I agree with GF, the 'feeder' series should comply with the ACO rules.   

I think it's safe to say that you can forget idea of this new series being a "feeder" for anything.  You know how NASCAR thinks, the idea of a series of theirs, being a feeder for a another sanctioning body, is ridiculous as far as they're concerned.
My gut feeling is they could care less about the "Big Race" in June.
Fax

Some wisdom from JB...

http://www.doubledeclutch.com/?p=5028 (http://www.doubledeclutch.com/?p=5028)

Well worth the click.

Very insightful piece. Also proves that every era has its problems.

At a time when there were site many teams wanting to race, so many cars available and a buoyant financial situation the world of sport car racing still throws it all away.

With regard the dtm/japaness tie up, agreed the European cars are designed to look like touring cars, don't forget they are pretty much just bodyshells.

The realty is that the reborn us series will want its own Id so will most likely be different from anything else and purely a USA series with only the production based gt's having a common background.

And it's that arrogance, which will essentially mean the end of the US as a serious sportscar racing nation.  

To be considered amongst the best, you have to run with the best, in the hardest races - pitt yourself against the toughest competition.

The ACO are unlikely to change their regs route for anyone - they simply don't do that - and why should they?  If you're right, and LMP classes are not right for the US market, then more fool the US market as far as they (and I, as a matter of fact) are/am concerned.  We are about to enter a golden age of sportscar racing - an age which we will look back on fondly - especially if, as rumoured, Porsche come along with a prototype to rival Toyota and Audi - If NASCAR fail to recognise it and make the series compatible with ACO regs and at least give the US teams a chance of preparing for the main event (without it being cost prohibitive), and the US public fail to demand the pinnacle of sportscar racing, then I'm afraid they are the only ones who really lose out.  The toughest, most important race in the world, will still be the toughest, most important race in the world - the party will just happen without any major American interest - which in my opinion, would be a real shame.  

  

Don't be too sure Brad. WEC/ACO have made some interesting statements on LMP1/2 the other day and GTE/GT3 for 2014 - this could be a precursor to trying to tie back into the US merged series?

http://www.fiawec.com/en/news/lmp1-2014-regulation-update-and-the-future-vision-of-lmp2-and-gte_741.html

Not too sure how this would work though with energising manufacturers to spend/enter, but hey, it just might:

Brad, With all due respect, what "Gloden era" are you refering too?  The EU is a joke, the US economy sucks. and China has crapped out.  Where's the Golden era going to come from?
GF posted some great photos... from 1998! Things were great then, the height of the Clinton era, life was good lots of money to go around, where are all those prototypes now?
Some of you are living in fantasy land?
NASCAR, if it really buys into sportscar racing, will go into it making sure their series is the pinnacle of the sport, screw the ACO! I know people in NASCAR, their attitiude will be"If people want to race at Daytona or Sebring, then they'll race under our rules"  These people went into the Meccca of Indycar racing, the heart of US racing, IMS, and their race became the biggest event on the calendar there, do you really think they're going to set their regs around a race held once a year in France?
GF mentions the heritage of US participation at Le Mans, really? The last ten years or so its been the Vettes and the Lizards, and a handful of other privateers.  Your going to make that argument? Seriously?
Fax

That's it - I can't stay quiet anymore!

Golden era's only become golden era's once you go through not-so golden era's and what we have recently witnessed at Le Mans will be looked back upon as very much golden era's - Just look at the recent winning margins - It used to be how many laps, recently its been how many seconds!

I used to love the group C cars, but this year they just looked slow, unreliable and rather cluncky.

Sportscar racing is the only outlet for manufacturers to race road-relevent technology which is what the 24hr Le Mans was designed for and that still remains today.

US & The Rest of the World has very different philosophies about racing and what racing constitutes. I'm not sure that the US has the engineering capability to put together a competitive LMP1 program to compete at the highest level. FYI the Ferrari 458 for DP is the slowest 458 ever made (slower than the road version!).

I wonder what Le Mans has done for worldwide (outside US) sales of the Corvette??

Close finishes are easy to orchestrat when you have lots of safety car periods, US (and for that matter F1) racing has perfected that.  As far as US technology?  At this point US manufacutureres are more concerned with building cars people can afford, and keeping folks employed than wasting money on racing programs that no one cares about.
Fax

The Golden Era, comes from the excitement and quality of the racing - three major manufacturers, trading blows for overall victory, is something we haven't had for many years - sure there's been Audi vs Peugeot, and Bentley, and Pesky-Rolos - but the addition of a third, genuine contender, makes the next few years an extremely exciting prospect.  It might not happen, but if the rumours are correct, it's a distinct possibility.

The fact is, that Sebring and Daytona pale into complete insignificance in comparison to Le-Mans,  - Don't get me wrong, Sebring is a brilliant event, better for the spectator trackside, etc etc, but it's still not the same as the challenge of Le-Mans - and Daytona barely even registers on the radar in the US, let alone the rest of the world.   For manufacturers and teams to genuinely claim superiority, or claim any kind of saleable benefit to their race programmes, they need to be racing at Le-Mans, or racing against the grand efforts of Audi, Toyota and Porsche with events in the US - and the general consensus is that this will not be possible when the regs are announced. 

As for "where are all those prototypes now?" - errr....they're racing at Le-Mans - the 2012 Entry list suggests 33 of them......which is a pretty impressive grid for a group of cars that "nobody is interested in"......

As for US entry.  Audi North America, Krohn, Flying Lizard, Corvette, Highcroft - that's a bigger representation than most other nations.

If US manufacturers concentrated on making products which were fuel efficient (40mpg is more than acheivable with modern technology, yet you'll struggle to find a US car that does more than about 25mpg), made with quality materials instead of flimsy plastic, and which could actually go around corners, they'd sell more vehicles outside of the US, make more money, and be able to afford to go racing - and the development cycle would BEGIN with racing in the same way it does in Europe - develop the technology on the racetrack to safeguard future sales, and the whole thing becomes self sufficient.

And finally - you can't "orchestrate" safety car situations - well, not unless you throw "competition cautions" - which thankfully, are not a feature of European racing.....and long may that Americanism stay away from the important stuff.

Brad, again your making a argumernt for once race a year.  This new series needs to be successfui, and make money over the course of a season here.  Again, where were all the big manufacturers when the ALMS was trying to stay afloat?  Why in the hell should they worry about what the manufactureres think when the ALMS was largely deserted by them?
What goes on at Le Mans every June hasn't translated into a successful racing series over here, if it did, we wouldn't be having this debate.
You keep banging about Le Mans, this needs to a season long success, not hanging on one damn race a year, and yes, looking at the TV numbers for sportscar racing over here, nobody cares!
Fax

The argument is about Le Mans being the pinnacle of the WEC season.

There is no point the WEC going to America if American people (customers) can't grasp what technology racing is about.

There's alot of world out there that does get it!

As far as I'm concerned, let NASCAR rule so-called American sportscar racing with their fugly DP's, tubular GT's, manufactured races and let the serious American racing teams come and race the WEC. I think you will find that Starworks did particularly well this year! (backed by South American money).

As Brad states, if American car manufacturers and customers don't get with the program, you will get left behind and lets hope your economy is strong enough to be self-sufficient!

If the UScar makers don't follow the ACO regs to go sportscar racing, the American auto industry will be left behind?  I make sure to let them know that when I'm in Detroit next week. ;)
Fax

Nothing new... In the history of sportscar racing in the USA, the general pattern of things in prototypes has been the domination of European constructors against the occasional home-grown effort. It was no accident that when Ford decided to challenge Ferrari in the 1960's they used a Lola as the basis for it and had it designed and constructed in England. Nothing much in that pattern has changed since then. America is still happy to go racing with steel tubes and cubic inches.

I've worked in racing in both the US and Europe over the last two decades, and any similarities are skin deep. The whole mind-set is different.. not better or worse, just different. Americans come to Europe to race BECAUSE it is different here. My feeling is that the ALMS was always a bit of a square peg in a round hole. A bit like watching a dog ride a bicycle, not because it is done well, but that it is done at all. Fourteen years for an endurance racing series is not a bad innings. The king is dead, long live the king... or whatever.

 

Please make sure you read the post carefully before answering!

What I said was regarding technology racing, not ACO rules racing.

If US car makers support a silhouette series, where all of the cars are essentially the same, and innovation is all but eradicated, then yes, they will be left behind.  You can say what you want about the ACO and their frankly terrible ability to keep fans happy trackside, but the one thing they are good at, is making sure that they give enough wiggle room for innovation and research which can be used on the road.  It won't be long before we see KERS style hybrid systems on the road, and we already see Semi Automatic gear shifts on Audis and various other marques (not the best example given that it originated in F1 - but the refinement, endurance and translation of it from extreme sprint racing, to road cars, came through sportscars).  DSG Gearboxes, FSI Technology, more extensive use of carbon fibre in road cars, etc etc - all of these innovations (which are prevalent in Europe) come from sports cars, and thus, the ACO's regs for the last 20 years.

Signs of the US being left behind are already apparent.  Corvettes until more recently, have been using LEAF springs.... a technology long since abandoned in Europe in favour of higher, better performing suspension systems.  If there's no racing series driving innovation, then where are the US  manufacturers going to get the technology which will attract new buyers?

GF, I couldn't have put it any better.  Racing is different over here, its not better, not worse, just different.  Ther seems to be an opinion shared by many of the contributers to this forum that if its not done the traditional Euro way, its not right.  That's such tunnel vision, because something works for one group, doesn't mean it'll work for everyone.
As GF said, it was a great fourteen years, but times have changed, things haven't been successful in recent years and its time to try something new. Its pointless to continue down the same path over here, TV ratings have never been good, attendance has dropped, and there's a very poor car in count in the prototype ranks.  What's the point in continuing with the status quo when no one is showing any interest?  Purist may cringe at the idea of NASCAR running a sportscar series, I do, but they will make it successful, whatever its incarnation will be, or it will be gone in a few years.
Fax

I am no expert on what happens in the USA, but it strikes me that the average US fan cares less for innovation preferring noise, flame and vibration and going home with s smile on his face, not really caring if the car has titanium nuts or bat Finke hydro suspension.

In Europe and Japan I think we like to see boundarys being pushed and innovation as well as racing, maybe more of an appreciation of the details.

Neither is right or wrong.

Fax is the exception to the rule and I am talking in very general terms. What I think is clear is that the USA will go its own wayfor the time being.

Hopefully the wec will grow, dome have said they are building a new car and Toyota is giving consideration to selling cars as well, add these to the much talked about Porsche, hint at a brighter future.

Fax,  Ultimately, the US needs to clean up its act on a wider scale - the world is going to run out of the fossil fuels that your cars seem intent on burning at a rate of a gallon per 9 miles, very shortly - and then what? 

If you are a representative of the US populations desire to go racing with big displacement engines and no thought for innovation to make things more efficient, then I look forward to the day that we run out of fuel, and the whole of the US comes to a grinding halt!  Perhaps then, Europe can look over to you all in our cars which produce 500bhp, from a teaspoon of fuel, and explain why their way was the way to follow - rather than being pig headed about "big flames, thunder and roaring engines"

As an interesting aside on this subject...

I interviewed NASCAR Sprint Cup driver Brian Vickers at Le Mans (before his flaming Ferrari experience), and it was obvious that not only was he loving his time in La Sarthe, he was also totally amazed and surprised at the fundamental differences in the 'Euro approach' to all facets of racing.

Think Michael Waltrip had a similar experience at the Sarthe a few years ago, and he's done some sportscar racing since then.  Actually a number of the Cup guys will seize the opportunity to do some sportscar racing, their schedule allowing.  I know several of them race at the Glen over the weekend Sprint Cup and Grand-Am share the weekend.
Actually Brad, all cars and trucks sold in the US are required to get at least 27 MPG, and that goes up to 54.5 by 2025.  I suspect by then we'll mostly be filling our cars with ethanol based fuels (and plugging then into a battery charger).  Corn's one thing we've got plenty of.  There's still some kinks to work with ethanol fuels, but they getting closer, and the Indycars run exclusively on it.
Fax

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/us-scene/racing-on-tv-in-america/

Put aside any doubts about the steamroller NASCAR is in the USA compared to the other forms of racing.

I think this says it all personally, with that amount of leverage NASCAR can dictate exactly what happens in racing in the US whether it has an interest in the series or not, simply by the ability to swamp the airwaves with content.

The France empire has been cast as the villain in the ALMS merger, but it is not ALL bad. I don't like it, but it is now a fact and we have to be where we are. Yes, Grand Am is merging with ALMS very much like a shark 'merges' with a drowning man, but say what you like about NASCAR, they have brought all levels of racing to mainstream America. Yes, they do it in a particularly American way, that's to be expected, but they have infused motor racing deeply into the US popular sports agenda (particularly in the south) at a level that is unheard of in Europe. They should be applauded for that... but their success has now given them a strangle hold on the media and the ability to either knock aside or engulf any competition, which gives them the 'evil empire' reputation in the minds of sports car and open-wheel race fans. We will see in 2014 if they live up to that opprobrium. 

Let's wish the unification series success. It will soon be the only game in town!

That last paragraph in the MotorSport article pretty much says it all.  I agree with GF, at first I was horrified at the idea of NASCAR getting a stranglehold on sportscar racing over here...But!  If they apply the same sort of marketing genius, and organizational skills to the new sportscar series, as they have to their other divisions, it will make money and be a success, no doubt about it.
Fax

Grand-MA's new 'GX' class homologation list includes... the "Ford Focus 4-door". I kid you not...


DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. (Oct. 24, 2012) – Competitors looking to participate in GRAND-AM’s newest race category will have 10 new models from nine manufacturers to choose from, based on the list of cars eligible for the new GX class in the Rolex Sports Car Series.
Earlier this year,  GRAND-AM announced the new class to allow for cars and technologies currently not involved in the Rolex Series, that will debut in the 2013 Rolex 24 At Daytona.

Eligible cars already announced for the class were the Lotus Evora GX, Porsche Cayman, and Mazda with the Skyactiv-D turbo diesel in a model to be determined.

GRAND-AM today expanded that list to 13 models from 12 different manufacturers, adding the Audi TT, BMW 1 Series, Chevrolet Cruze, Ford Focus (four door), Hyundai Genesis, Subaru BRZ, Scion FR-S, Nissan 370Z or Altima, and Volkswagen EOS.

GX will join the Daytona Prototype and GT classes at all Rolex Series races. Rules are being developed to allow for the exploration of a wide variety of alternative technologies and alternative fuels. This could include turbocharged engines; fuels other than gasoline, such as clean diesels; and hybrid powertrains. The class will be developed with performance levels that complement the current DP and GT
classes. No changes to GT performance levels are expected.

Are they dropping a lot of acid in the US again?
Eos? Is that with the roof up or down?
Or are they going back to old ACO rules where you had to stop and put down the roof? Could be a big advantage there.

Are they going to have to re-mark the pit lane then?

(http://sassbyproxy.com/storage/sass%20by%20proxy%20child%20and%20parent%20parking%20bays.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1348136652101)

Clearly the two door is considered too quick :o

Interesting article about the lack of interest in LMP2 at the moment

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/alms-p2-car-counts-in-question/

With P2 population in ELMS and WEC, it is not entirely surprising that ALMS P2 grid is a bit thin. Add to that the probable demise of P2 in the unified series of 2015, when all remaining vestiges of ALMS will probably be disposed of.

If rumour proves true... it looks like the LM P2 class is going to be slowed down to match DP in the unified series. That might also require the ALMS GT classes to be restricted too, to avoid the embarrassment of GTs running faster than prototypes, which happened in the early years of the DP (until the GT class was hobbled). This rings true, as the chances of speeding-up DP to the pace of LM P2 is neither safe nor practical.

Here it is ...


Good news I think (hope) : teams can qualify for LM, so I guess they'll have to increase the DP performance to the level of the LMP's.  Otherwise they'll be blown away by the ALMS GT's.   Question is how many LMP2's will be on the grid next year ...

What the press release does not say is that Grand Ma intends to performance limit LM P2 more than they 'speed-up' the DP class. The other thing they don't say is that LM P2 regs will be unchanged in ACO sanctioned races and therefore it is unlikely that we will see DP's racing at Le Mans.

I really hate that they killed the P1 class here in the US.  I enjoyed that level of racing as much or more in some cases that the other classes.  What a shame.  Hope to see some Europe races on the internet with P1 participation.  NASCAR certainly raised the level of racing awareness in the US.  It's just a high speed demolition derby and very boring unless there is a wreck.  I hope "real" racing that we all love doesn't go that way.  Bring back the days when real Fords, Chevy's, Dodges's, Mercury's, Plymouth's ruled.  Those were the days!!!

Please, spare us from DP's at Le Mans !

If they'll limit the performance of the LMP2's, what's the sense then about racing one ?   You'll enter a car with neat performance, and will be forced to bring it down to the level of something that's barely quicker than a GT-car.   Guess what we all feared will become reality, the only thing left from ALMS will be the GT-cars, up untill 2016 when they'll change te rules again and they'll be banned too;

This is going to be what I feared, a mish-mash of heavily regulated cars from both series.  I absolutely despise the idea of cars having to be slowed down or sped-up to keep things entertaining.
Just make it formula libre and whoever builds the fatest mousetrap wins.

Honestly... I doubt we will ever see a DP at Le Mans. If there WAS a DP entry, it would only serve to highlight just how sloooow they are compared to European 'proper' prototypes, and who in their right mind would want to fund that?

Humm ... perhaps Grand Ma has other ideas about getting the DPs to the Sarthe ..... http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/grand-am-daytona-protoypes-to-le-mans/

Let's hope not .........

I'm sure the France family would absolutely love to see DP's at Le Mans, the trouble is that the only way it would happen from a money standpoint is if a DP could be in with a chance of overall victory. As the low-tech steel tube DP's are barely faster than the hobbled GT field, the chances are pretty remote. I'm not losing any sleep over it, even if the impossible happens and they do show-up in La Sarthe, I can't see it happening more than once, and I certainly don't expect to see hordes of the ugly buggers on European sports car grids.

You guys did notice that this is proposed as a small exhibition class?  I don't think anyone with half a brain thinks DP's would be remotely competitive against true LMP's.  I'm seeing this as their way of giving fans, who ordinarily would not have a chance to see the DP's, a  opportunity to see them in person, as mentioned, in the article similar to what the ACO has done before.
I get the dislike of DP's from a purist perspective, but playing devils advocate for a second, ultra high tech, and silly fast, doesn't always make for the best racing.  The Audi's are amazing peices of technology, stupidly fast...and boring as hell to watch.
The DP's are simple spaceframe chassis, with big atmo engines plugged in.  But they have high bhp & low grip so they slide around, they're closely matched, so its not a foregone conclusion who's going to win, they're loud & raucous.  Again, they don't appeal to everyone, but ultimately we go to races to be entertained, and these guys can be entertaining, not pretty & sophisticated.
I don't think think for a second anyone inside or outside of Grand-Am has ever pretended that the DP's are the be all & end all to sportscar racing.  I've always seen it as a cost effective, entertaining, domestic, alternative to the more international LMP formula, not a competitor.  I grew up enjoying F1, but I watched Indycars too.  I used to love IMSA GTO & GTU, and also the SCCA Trans-Am.  I sort of look at these two different approaches to protoype racing in much the same way.
As I said, at the end of the day we go to races to be entertained, I find both approaches to sportscar racing entertaining.
That said I'm not at all crazy about the idea of them being combined into one prototype formula, which is the impression I get that, the merged sanctioning body wants to do.  But what I read into this proposed LM exhibition is just that, an exhibition.
B-Grobs

New name to be announced today...

You can bet it will be utterly mundane, having being selected by committee.

Edit -> Now announced as "United SportsCar" ... excited yet?

Uh wow, that's urm, errr... original?, no, zippy?, no, urm, yeah, I got it, sh!te.  Sorry, it's taken me this long to awaken from the name induced coma .....

I read somewhere that they wouldn't be at le mans because they would fail the crash test. Presume they mean for the lmp class.

Yes, a name so forgettable I've forgotten it twice already.

What was it again... ?  Make that three times.