Club Arnage

Hi guys,

First of all, I hope that those of you who went this year had a great race and a safe return to Blighty.

I made my first pilgrimage in 1999 and have since missed just 3 races since, including this one.

Most of the races in that time have been Audi/Volkswagen group testimonials. However, it never seemed to matter before and this is the first time that I've honestly felt that I've not missed anything.

Unfortunately, as I watched the race unfold on Eurosport, I realised the sad truth that my love affair with Le Mans is coming to an end.

Here are a few of the reasons why:

1) Audi

Audi must have known that Toyota were not going to provide a real threat this year. So why bring 4 cars? When I heard that they were bringing 2 hybrids and 2 diesels, the reason seemed obvious. Could it really be that they still wanted to demonstrate the effectiveness of their hybrid technology to road car buyers so brought two of their 'old' diesels to beat into third and fourth place?

For me, it's no use trying to convince myself otherwise. Audi's total domination has now killed the event.

When the Toyotas crashed out, it was depressing listening to the Eurosport commentators trying to talk up a non-existant race between the Audis as if there was a possibility that Audi would have let one of their 'normal' cars finish ahead of the hybrids.

Do I care if Audi no. 1 finishes before Audi no. 2? Er, no.

2) Cynical marketing

Quite simply: 'Morgan-Judd'; 'Lotus-Lola'. WTF!? Please stop it. Stop it now.

Lotus in particular are fast becoming a dirty word in the world of motorsport. Just look at the ridiculous Team Lotus/Caterham/Lotus-Renaut debacle in F1.

'Chunky' must be turning in his grave.

Also, too many Gulf cars. They aren't GT40s or 917s and never will be. Cars like the AMR One from last year are just ruining the racing heritage of this once-iconic livery.

3) Fugly cars

Not only do all the LMPs now look the same but vertical wings sprouting up on the prototypes now mean that the GTs are the best looking cars in the race.

Nothing wrong with that in itself, but for for me, Le Mans is all about futuristic and sexy-looking LMPs.

4) On the subject of ugly cars. Please tell me what the Deltawing was all about. No wonder the Indy guys turned it down. For me, it looked totally out of place at Le Mans so why did Nissan bring it?

Could it be so they could keep telling us at every opportunity throughout the race how the engine was 'based' on that in the Juke?

The only connection I can see is that the Deltawing looked like a phallus and that's what you'll look like in a Juke  ;)

5) Nissan/GT Academy

OK, credit where credit's due. Ordonez and co are proving to be good racers and maybe it was worse because of the repeated Eurosport ad breaks but please please please Nissan, stop implying that these guys honed their skills playing Gran Turismo on the Playstation. They didn't.

What they did was win a marginally relevant Playstation competition which then gave them the chance to go through another tough physical selection process which in turn allowed them the chance to race for Nissan in a 24 hour GT race before going on to have careers (probably forever more with Nissan).

I am sure that there are millions of other guys (and no, I'm not one of them) who entered the Playstation competition and who could have gone on to be just as good as Ordonez in real-world racing but who didn't get the chance because they weren't geeky enough with the steering wheel and pedal set in their living rooms.

Being good at Grand Turismo does not mean that you will be fast in real life. They could have had a Mario Karts or even Call of Duty competition and still found a couple of good racing drivers at the end of it.

6) Fixability/reliability

Exhibit A: 'F1 reject turned sports cars journey man' Fisichella crashes his Ferrari during practice. Car totally destroyed or so you might think but after being entirely rebuilt throughout the night, its back again for qualifying.

Exhibit B: Audi crashes at first chicane. Driver gets out, rips off whole nose section and limps back to pits on 3 wheels. After a short time in the garage, the car is rebuilt and finishes in top 4.

Exhibit C: Audi stops on track. End of race? No. Car's electonics are rebooted and said Audi finishes the lap back on race pace.

Nowadays, if a car needs a new light bulb teams replace the entire front end. If they need a new gear box, they can replace the whole back end.

OK, so I know that some cars still don't finish the race but with cars allowed to be rebuilt to the extent they are, it makes a mockery of Le Mans as an endurance race. If we get to the point where all the cars finish because nothing goes wrong with them and even when it does, they're fixed by replacing whole sections of the car, what's the point?

Furthermore, cars can also be refuelled as often as teams want and use as many tires as they want. I'm not for a minute suggesting that we go down the F1 route but it's making the race too easy to finish, particularly for the teams for whom money is no object.

7) Pecarolo

Oh Henri, where did it go so wrong? On the subject of money, watching Pescarolo this year has been a depressing experience. It's so sad that the team most passionate about Le Mans seems to have the least money. Privateers make Le Mans what it is and when the big manufacturers get bored and leave, who will pick up the reigns? Not Pesca because he'll have packed up and gone home long ago through lack of sponsorship. Sadly, I feel that the future of Le Mans is GT racing and pay drivers.

I could go on but won't as I realise that I'm probably not winning any friends on this forum.

All of the above is meant to be a bit of fun but is also based on what I genuinely feel.

I don't want to spoil anything for you guys and just hope that the comments you make will help reignite my enthusiasm for Le Mans.

You've got a year to do it!

S

Well I enjoyed it, except the TV director's inability to stay with the action where it mattered.

Me too. Well,what I managed to see anyway. Work today buggered any chance of seeing the final hours. A few less ad breaks would have been nice and maybe point the camera at the interesting stuff instead of a pit crew looking at a monitor.

Well, I watched more this year at home than I have in the last four/five years that I have been there.

Don't give up on LM Scottie, go to the Classic... but don't whinge about it though because it is a different experience.
Do not agree with your point 6 at all and Fissy is certainly not a reject.

I am not sure how you can say at the end of you epic that what you have said is fun as it is too precise to be that.

No hard feelings though - get yourself to the Classic quite a few from this forum will be there and approx 125k others.

>Martini...LB

Reading it back, it is a bit of an epic so sorry guys - guess I got a bit carried away for a first-time post!  :-[

I think you're definitely right about the Classic. I've never been before so maybe should give it a try. Do they use the full circuit or just the Bugatti?

Hi Scotty917,
Sitting with drink in hand on a sunny Houx and reflecting on a very enjoyable race I can only say no I don't agree, and it didn't look like that from here. We had the TV feed on the big screen opposite the stand and in our marquee on Houx.
But if you want to stay away next year, well, tant pis , as the French say.

Full circuit.
But since 2002, where have you been?

Full circuit and cars from 1923 to 1979 in 6 different groups which run three times... read up on it and get yourself down next month...

(I think the above is correct, I have only been four times)

>Martini...LB

http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php?topic=11145.0

Hmmm - I had forgotten how rude Dr S had been to me!  I will have to be sure to make him suffer for that.....

F

Blimey Scottie - get it off your chest mate.  ;)

Agree what you say about being overdosed on the Audi win. I can't take away their military precise campaign but would have liked to see somebody give them a run for the money.

I think you and me might be Classic virgins next year - pity I can't mobilise and go this year.

Stay Cool

B.

Will have to be year after next..... its only every 2nd year!

:)

Audi can only beat what what is up against them - the fact that Toyota only managed to get 2 cars to the grid both of which didn't make it past midnight.  Surely now is the best time for a challenger to emerge and depose the current king of Le Mans.  What better kudos than to strike down the most dominant team on the grid and in recent LM history.

Shame more on the ACO for failing to attract a big name challenger and the motorsport industry for not providing one.

By the way, the excitement surrounding the Deltawing was tangible at the track even if it didn't come across on the TV.  I think it is outrageous the leniency shown to the Toyotas for unceremoniously knocking it.

You want ugly cars?  Try watching one of the Rolex Sports Car Series races and see the Daytona Prototype cars!

They are un-dadgum-believably ugly.  Not only are the hard to look at, the "powers that be" SLOWED THEM DOWN! 

It isn't Audi's problem that nobody shows up to beat them.

Personally, I love the GT class of cars.

Come on over to Sebring in the spring, we would love to show you around our track.

Hi Scottie 917
After the first reading of your epistle I thought, at last, someone who hankers back for the old days: Group C, space on the campsites, dust bowl Village, etc and I share some of your cynicism but to be honest, I couldn't make it this year for the first time in years and bloody hell I missed it - both the race and meeting up with my fellow "Club Arnagers".

It is still the greatest race on the planet and I'm already checking the camping gear for next year. Dr S has seriously tempted me in to attending the Classic but alas a job interview will prevent that.

Re: The Audi thing. Love 'em or loathe 'em they are the most efficient racing team out there and frankly deserved their victory. Yeah, a cynic might say the e-trons were first under team orders and hey, aren't Audi about to launch a new hybrid car? However, if I was one of the suits at Audi and had signed the huge annual cheque for Dr Ulrich's racing team I'd want some marketing payback. I haven't seen the papers today and I guess that, at most, there will be a small paragraph about the race. However, I wager that there will be a half page advert from Audi trumpeting their win using hybrid technology. Way of the world - Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday.

I agree with JPS - it's up to the ACO and other teams to pull their socks up and really challenge Audi. Can you imagine Sir Alan McNish and his buddies with two hours to go and a couple of Toyota, Nissan or Porsche LMP1's right up their chuff?

I even think the cars look good these days especially the coupes. I've never really liked the open cockpit cars and agree with Gatordad - if you want ugly, look at the Daytona Prototypes. I watched the race from Detroit last week and it took me ages before I realised that the two leading cars were Corvettes!

Keep the faith Scottie, don't give up mate.

Firstly, welcome to Club Arnage. I hope we manage to relight your passion for what is head and shoulders, still THE best sporting event on the planet.

Times have changed for sure. The marketing man is now more important than the engineer. That's sad and I don't see it changing. I agree that the cars are not getting any better looking, but that again is progress (although we still have a long way to go before they look as ugly as those current F1 cars.) I too miss the old village and rue the changes to the circuit that have erased years of character and some of the spirit. Things are, it seems, not what they were.

On the other hand......

If you need a reminder of glories past, go to the Classic. It's a great event that has a character all of its own. I love to head down and submerge myself in the sports history. It is the perfect antidote for the modern race.

On the flip side, it's not really a race is it. It's a celebration for sure and some drivers love to race no matter what, but after a great weekend at the classic I'm always ready to get back to the proper 24 hours the following year. It recharges your fever for the 24.

So aside from the Audi whitewash year on year and the cynical marketing, what is it that troubles you?

The atmosphere is still amazing, the place itself is still awe inspiring, the racing throughout the classes better than ever, and the individual stories that play out during the race can still make you laugh and cry in equal measures.

Like the teams competing, Le Mans is a year long journey for me. It's really got under my skin, and has Hugh Chamberlain said during the race this year 'this place becomes part of your very fabric' a sentiment I wholly agree with.

Everything builds up to it- the constant drip feed of news, rumours, hanging around places like CA and Beermountain, the races building up to LM- Sebring, Spa..., a weekly listen to Midweek Motorsport... It all ensures that  one the race you are well stoked up and even four blokes racing wheelbarrows would be enough!

The passion is still inside you. You just need to look deeper and find it.

Don't give up now. We are at the dawning of a golden age. Toyotas effort this year was magnificent. Porsche, Nissan, Honda will be here in the next few years to spice things up and you will always have the Davids to the Goliaths to cheer on should the factories leave you cold. How can you not be warmed by the stories behind teams like Murphy Prototypes, Rollcentre, RML over the years?

All said and done, it's still the greatest sporting event on the planet. Make the most of it while you still can.

Si

Another point that I'd like to address is your cynical view of the Nissan/ Gran Turismo Academy.

Yes it's purely a marketing excercise but a brilliant one at that. During one wet miserable afternoon huddled in a service area on some rally out in the arse end of nowhere, my sadly departed friend Colin McRae once looked me straight in the eye and said 'Si, there is a Colin McRae or Richard Burns on every council estate in Britain. We were just fortunate enough to get the chance'.

Now I don't care what Nissan or Playstation get out of it, but the fact that one lad has been taken from Bedroom gaming to the podium of Le Mans is something that should be applauded. That is life changing. It also happens that he is a bloody tallented individual thus proving my old friends theory.

One of the magical things about Le Mans for me is it's accessibility. If you have the money you can go and race against the best in the world. If I liked tennis there is no amount of money that could get me onto centre court at Wimbledon next month, of if I were into football, I could get to the world cup final.

Surely that dream exists in every Motorsport fans heart? To be there? Can you imagine how it feels?

Great interview with Greg Pickett during the week where he described his first racing lap at Le Mans. He said he could hardly see for tears. He sobbed like a baby the whole way through his first few laps!
Now that's a hardened businessman and racer talking. Imagine what it feels like for a young lad plucked from nowhere. It's a fairy tale come true.

They made that dream come true. For that Nissan are heros.

Blimey Si, the muse is upon you today!!   Two points I would like to pick up tho....

(1)  I dont entirely agree with this - if the Engineer isnt doing his part, then the marketing man will have nothing to sell or at least will have a much harder job to shift the goods!  I wonder how many Lambos got sold off the back of their last "performance"!

(2)  I certainly agree here - I thought I wasnt too fussed about missing it this year (thinking that just going to the Classic would be compensation enough) - but no matter how much I had tried to fill the weekend with other "stuff" - I still spent lots of hours listening to RLM and jumping round blogs and video feeds - I even spent a good half hour or more watching the fixed camera feed of people wandering up the track after the race had finished!

F

I still think the marketing man is king. The manufacturers are there to sell cars. Peugoet sell twice as many diesels in France than petrol and it was the marketing man who decided that Peugoet would return with a Diesel. It was also the marketing man that probably drew the curtain on the Peugeot effort.

Yes the engineer makes the car a winner, but for that he needs money and that money comes from the budgets given to the marketing man.

Audi will be making hybrid cars available to you and I next year therefore it was important to the Marketing Man that the newer technology became the first to win at Le Mans.

The days of a bright engineer approaching the Board with a plan and a design is long gone. It's now the Marketing man and his PowerPoint presentation that breeds a winner at Le Mans. The engineers, mechanics, tacticians and drivers just make it reality.

"Tread softly because you tread on my dreams" - WB Yeats.

Got to say that I side with Si on the marketing / engineer issue Fran. I'm not saying that I like it but it's simple economics. The marketing department generate sales, the sales fund the racing and the engineers make the car work. The car wins the race (in the case of Audi) and people buy more cars which generate income etc ad infinitum.

I can't see this cycle and the subsequent domination of works teams in LMP1 being broken unless some privateer happens to come up with a miracle.

GT racing on the other hand.......

Steve

Chicken->Egg or Egg->Chicken?!

 ;D

An interesting debate for sure.

If you look back at Audi's first foray into Motorsport back in the 1980's you will see that marketing has always been at the forefront.

Back in the 1970's we had Ford, Fiat, Lancia etc on the world stage with 'factory' rally teams but taking the chicken and egg scenario into context, all they had done was take the baton from gentlemen drivers or sportsmen (and ladies of course) who had been doing European rallies out of their own pockets for decades. Through the successes of these privateers they could see the benefits of winning on Sunday, selling on Monday. Thus was born the work teams. Although they were 'factory teams' they were often anything but... Ford/ David Sutton, Lancia/Jolly Club, Fiat/ etc. factory money, independent race team. BMC were probably the exception to this but for the sake of this debate, they were not in the same league.

Audi at that point had no recent sporting heritage to fall back on and very few non enthusiasts knew of the connection between the current company and the past success of Auto Union. It's easy to forget that back in the 1970's Audi was a very small manufacturer. They had to take a fresh approach and start from scratch.

It was an Audi marketing team that then decided to change the world of rallying forever by entering the sport with something radical. Audi certainly grew as a direct result of that Motorsport programe and still continue to this day as a direct result of that strategy. They were, it can be argued the first of a new breed when it came to promoting the company through sport. It could be said that SAAB did the same two decades before with Carlsson and the Monte victories but that was more to do with a small engineering department with a very small budget using rallying to improve its road car product. The slick marketing came second.

We now know that Porsche will join the party in late 2013/2014. The Porsche Group own Audi and many have said that as soon as Porsche are ready then we will lose Audi. I'm sure Porsche will take its factory drivers away from Audi next year, but I still think that Audi will continue to compete. How hollow would a victory be if that victory has not been torn from the hand of the giant?

Back to the original poster's points about Audi domination. I agree that it's not been great from a sporting perspective, but no one can deny that Audis presence over the last decade has lifted endurance racing's popularity to a whole new level. Gone are those terrible days back in the 80's and 90's when there were only 28 starters.

As in rallying 30 years ago, Audi's involvement has reignited the sport. Le Mans is once again a household name. That's got to be a good thing for everyone concerned, be that a fan, the ACO, another manufacturer looking to convince its board to pay for a campaign, right down to a small team looking to find sponsors.

It could be said, like them or not, we owe the continuing existance of our favourite sport to those guys from Audi.

I am a long-time Sebring race fan and have been going to it since I was 10...in 1958!  My first love at 10 was the Porsche 550 spyder...not a bad first-love I might add.

I few years ago we heard rumors of Audi getting back into racing.  At Sebring there are corrals for different car type.  There has always been a Porsche corral.  Then they added a Corvette corral and a Ferrari corral.  The problem there, of course, is very few Ferrari's could make a real pleasure drive through Florida without breaking down on some back road...I digress.

Audi came to Sebring and in its first year got waxed pretty bad.  They continued coming back, got better, and now dominate the prototype class.  Before Audi came to the race, my bet is that there was not even one Audi driven by a spectator at the race.  Now?  There is an Audi corral, and Audi overflow paddock, and a whole Audi tent area to show off their newest cars.  The emblem is everywhere.

Now I love prototype racing as much as the next person but my passion is the GT class so I enjoy watching my Porsches go around the track.  Deep inside, I REALLY want Porsche to get back to the prototype class and wax Audi's arse...if you know what I mean.  Audi and Porsche have the same DNA and I like Audi for that.  My bet is that the Ferrari guys hated it when Porsche was winning all the back-to-back races at Le Mans as well.

We had our tenth annual Breakfast At Le Mans party last Saturday.  We loved it but it's still really about the friends you develop and the good times year to year.  Just my $0.02...see you at Sebring!

Si, I think the fact that TK and Dr U were so keen to extol the virtues of the younger Audi drivers this year adds weight to your argument that they are being groomed for a Porche P1 assault in 2013 / 14. Actually, can't see it happening next year unless Porsche have a development plan underway that we don't know about.

Surely they won't want to arrive with an underprepared factory team and be embarrased by a few Audi diesels.

Do you think Porsche will run diesel or petrol cars?

Steve

Scottie, I think you're looking at this wrong.

The Le-Mans experience is not about who wins.  It never really has been.  It's about the atmosphere, the people, the comradery, and to some degree, the feeling that the Brits give it, of being our race, which happens to be held in France.  

On the DeltaWing - Le-Mans is about future technology - that's the only reason it needed to run, and I for one, was glad it did - indeed, I hope they develop a class for 400kilo cars, running lightweight, with low power/fuel consumption - that Deltawing proved so many doubters wrong.

If you want the true fan experience, then I agree with GatorDad - go to Sebring - it's far more fan friendly, it's all about the racing, and I had an absolute blast there this year.  But for me, whilst I might have to make the choice between Sebring and Le-Mans again in the future, missing it Le-Mans this year, has proved to me, that whilst Sebring was better in SO many ways than Le-Mans - it's not Le-Mans.  Missing Sebring would be frustrating, and I'd hate it.....but missing Le-Mans again, would rip me to the core.  

Petrol Hybrid for sure Steve. It has more relevance for their road car output. As Toyota have shown this year, a petrol powered car can be as fast and efficient as a diesel despite what Henri has been trying to tell us for the last six years.

The programe is already underway. They will test in 2013 and race in 2014. It's been mentioned that at least two of the current Audi drivers wil be testing for Porsche instead of racing for Audi from the end of this year onwards.

Simon. Stop all this writing and get your van finished... the amount of time spent 'museing' lately you could have finished your car!!

>Martini...LB

Jesus, stop nagging, you are worse than the wife!

It's post Le Mans week. Lots to talk about. The van is over in the paint shop so everything is in hand.

Well, Scotty, for one thing I don't think it's fair to judge LM by the Eurosport broadcast.  I loathe footy but when I have been to the odd match (in the days before I had acquired a sensible husband and went out with guys who watched funny sports), even I was sucked in by the atmosphere in spite of the cr*p going on on the pitch.  You just have to be there.

I agree the Audi dominance is tedious but when the Toyotas put in some really decent laps, there was a real sense amongst the crowd that it may well be possible to beat them.  Yes, it seems that nothing will break them and that Audi is prepared for any eventuality or failure but whose fault is that?  Surely not theirs - they do what they need to win.  Is that such a bad thing?  If anybody wants to bring it to them, the opportunity is there.  And it's a lot cheaper and has a much higher demographic profile than F1.  But that's the marketing person in me talking, not the engineer! :-[

And anyway, it doesn't really matter that much when you're here.  I watched 20 hours of the race in all and I barely knew who was leading once the second Toyota bowed out.  But I watched the leader board on the big screen opposite me for lap after lap as P2 and GT cars slugged it out uninterupted for hour after hour.  There are four races going on.  If you're not interested in one of them, you're free to watch one of the others.  And all the little stories being played out at the same time.  JRM got a great result with just 5, yes 5, mechanics.  Unsurprisingly they won the pitlane award.  F1 eat your heart out.

On PQ weekend we were greeted like long-lost buddies by the Lizards.  Now, we don't know them except as fans and yet it's like meeting a bunch of old friends.  Pat Long, for example, is one of the most charming guys you could wish to meet and doesn't have a big stick up his backside like so many F1 types seem to have.  At scrutineering, I had an IMSA Matmut poster with me that came out of the programme so decided to get the guys to sign it.  Nicolas Armindo was so intrigued by the thing that he asked me where I'd got it and when I explained it was in the prog' seemed to be as delighted as one of those little kids who spots themselves on TV during the race.

On top of all that, there's us.  Hard to imagine a bunch of people who in many ways have very little in common, being so friendly, warm and welcoming, as well as being so very supportive of one another.  The good turns which have been done for me over the years are too numerous to mention, but nobody - well, almost nobody - ever does anything for any other reason than out of friendship and shared interest.  Sorry, but I bet you wouldn't get that out of any other form of motorsport (with the possible exception of rallying) because we all stand there for hour after hour in whatever kind of weather either watching the race or enjoying one another's company.  The Classic is great and few recent experiences have matched having been woken up at Mulsanne in the wee hours in the morning by the sound of 6 approaching GT40s but it isn't quite the same, and for me will never quite beat the real thing, for all its other attractions.

So before you pass final judgement Scotty, come back here again and give it another go.  It's easy to be an armchair critic and there are lots of things that the ACO does that get up my nose (and the noses of several of my French petrolhead friends too, so it's not just the Brits), but don't write it off yet.  The moment you come back, it gets under your skin again.

Very well put Termie.
 8)

Hi guys,

Certainly some interesting comments here. I agree that watching the event on Eurosport is no comparison to actually being there.

I certainly have always enjoyed the atmosphere surrounding the event: the camaraderie, camping, BBQs, pastis, kronenbourg, the frites merguez and not to mention all the toilet-related anecdotes!

I just felt that the race had lost something this year although I now realise that I'm in the minority and that's cool!  :)

On a different note, I mentioned in my first post about 'not wanting to go down the F1 route' but what do you guys think about introducing a limit on the amount of fuel each team can use or the number of tyres? Isn't that exactly what endurance racing is about - being as efficient as possible? Could that improve the show even further?

I guess that the Green X Challenge was introduced with that sort of thing in mind but the ACO is surely caught between a rock and a hard place here?  If they are to keep the private teams interested in the minor classes then they can't go around massaging the rules so much that they can't afford the more highly developed cars required to achieve better fuel economy/tyre use.    More importantly, most of the teams realise that to win they need to be in the pitlane as little as possible and thus the tyre and fuel thing is, to some extent, self-developing anyway in endurance racing.  And what was the Delta Wing you so seem to dislike if not a car which used fewer  tyres and less fuel?  

I heard a report that in two years or so there will be no limit on engine size, displacement, cylinders or how it breaths but there will be a limit on the amount of fuel it can use.  Has anybody else heard that?

I would surely hope that some of you gear heads come visit us in Florida next march.  though you all are set up for the friends and family deal at LM, we have a pretty fun time at Sebring and it's not all racing...even though the track is totally walkable (though hot) and there are a whole bunch of things to do.  Patron tequila sponsors the race...enough said.

I sould like some of you already come to Sebring.  Please PM me and we'll get together there.  Never enough friends in this world, are there?

Wife... wife... do not even think about cuddling up to me at the Classic!!

Nice to know everything is in hand  :o :o

>Martini...LB

I enter the GT Academy every year - Why not  ??? I love the game and i do lots of track days when i can so why not go for a opportunity like it

Heard very similar to that on RLM over the last weekend after the announcement by the ACO about the regs. for 2014 onwards. Not totally unlimited but certainly with an emphasis on efficiency. Some details here:http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1076974_aco-and-fia-reveal-2014-lmp1-regulations. As the article says these are preliminary proposals ands will be subject to modification in due course. I'm wure there is other info out there too. Will be interesting to see how it develops.

There is a brief summary of the 2014 technical regulations over on Dailysportscar. I think it's part of the free content too.

It looks like we are going back to a fuel efficiency formula. All LMP1 cars have to be hybrids, and each type of hybrid has a set fuel allowance. The teams have been involved throughout and a quick calculation tells me that the fuel allowance is generous enough to allow the same levels of performance we enjoy at the moment. It won't turn into an economy drive, and speeds will be on a par with what we have now.

Other changes are drivers seating positions- higher and further forward, a 30kg drop in minimum weight and diesels in LMP2.

No word on 'grandfathering' the current cars yet, which is a worry with several teams investing in brand new cars this year which don't fit next years regs. Bad especially for the Lola runners who look like they won't get factory upgrades to fit the new regs.

As in any form of Motorsport, technical rule stability is crucial to the health of the series. The current cars are very different from the cars of two years ago, now they have to change again. Not a good thing in these troubled times.

Also heard something that open prototypes would be banned from LMP1, only coupe's, which would be a shame imo.

I think we all knew that it would be Audi domination this year as soon as Peugeot pulled out. And in truth we have been spoiled by some fantastic races over the past few years, lets be honest as 13 second gap between 1st and 2nd last year was awesome.

You also have to respect the technology and engineering in all the cars, and so what if they can be quickly repaired on the circuit / in the pits. I would rather have more cars running and racing than loads of closed garage shutters. Ultimately racing is both a marketing ploy and an engineering development test bed which will filter through to the cars that we all drive.

It would be great to see more manufacturers enter the event, Mazda are supplying diesel engines to LMP2 next year, is this a toe in the water to a full factory team? Honda are already heavily involved with HPD and may have a full factory team in the near future.

With the whole point about Le mans being endurance, economy and efficiency, and with every manufacturer going 'green' then hopefully they will see the benefit and join the party.

As for the Deltawing, loved it. Didn't think it would work but seeing it lap at a decent pace was great and it was a real shame when they had to retire through no fault of their own. The only real problem with it is there are no direct comparables to benchmark against. Why not have more than 1 'Garage 56' so designers and engineers can let their creativity flourish with no constraints from the regulations and we can compare small engine light weight and great aeros v hydrogen power etc etc.     

Finally, Le Mans is not just about the racing, it is about the people, meeting old friends who you may only see once a year at Le mans and making new ones. 

Bonnet de douche! 

As mentioned on RLM during the closing stages of the race on Sunday this year was a good race in many respects - GT especially - but not a classic such as it was last year.

So next year we should have 3 better developed Toyotas and in 2014 we have the new regs and Porsche & Nissan in LMP1.

What with the new regs & the news teams we ought to have a battle royale in 2014 and maybe 2013 might be just plain ordinary too, but I suspect that Toyota will be stiff competition.

I really hope that Lola are sorted & that we don't lose Rebellion.  That said the HPD proved to be a decent enough runner, so maybe Rebellion could/should consider that option?

In summary I think it's just a bit of post-race blues setting in.  I have already set my countdown running for next year - 360 and counting...

Heres the press release  http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/1/1/ressources/Pdf/2012/24-heures-du-mans/conference_de_presse/technical_regulation_2014.pdf (http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/1/1/ressources/Pdf/2012/24-heures-du-mans/conference_de_presse/technical_regulation_2014.pdf)

Sportscars should have roofs , and that is the END of that conversation Kristoff! ;)


To others - this is GOOD news - it's effectively heading back to Group C regs - everyone knows those were the glory days!

Some other details mis-reported on here: 

* MANUFACTURER backed teams HAVE to be Hybrids in P1 (Privateers can run without)
* Cars can be taller - and there's some fairly wide windscreen requirements as well - which should help the cars look prettier.
* Fuel regs, are an amount PER LAP - so effectively, you will start with an amount of fuel, and be re-plenished by a set amount per lap completed.  Run it too hard, or not be efficient enough and you'll run out of fuel, or lose the tactical advantage in terms of time in the pits.

Love it or loathe it the Deltawing is refreshing in the fact it so different. think back to 6 wheelers & fan cars etc we don't see the like that often these day's so it's good to see Le Mans cars not being all the same style & shape like the F1 clones of the last decade  :(

When will Mclaren F1's & Porsche GT1's be allowed at the classic?? I'll be there

I have to admit i did enjoy seeing the giant knob on track shame the toyota shunted it off

Laugh Out Loud!

If you want ugly, go to the Rolex Sports Car Series!  Man, they're awful.

On a different note, innovation is the key to survival of the automobile as we are running out of petrol.  As far as I'm concerned, we can't run out soon enough.  I want to see the Saudi's try to eat sand when we jack their wheat prices up in concert with their jacked up oil prices.  All that $$ will begin to flow out of "The Kingdom" and back to its rightful owners in Europe and the good old US of A.

I'm not sure it's fair to blame Audi for their domination.  Of course there are a lot of things you could say but Porsche were just as dominant in the 80s though they sold cars to private teams.  But in 1983 the Porsche 956 took the first 8 places.

It's not Audi's fault that the Pugs have abandoned the project.

Unlike GCSE exam results you can't get better every year. 

As for changing large parts of the car, my understanding is that they Block and Gearbox casing cannot be changed.

I've returned home many times thinking "That's it! I'm not going there again!"  After my first visit Sebring this year my thoughts were I would alternate between Le Mans and the Classic.  However, I now find myself in the position of thinking Le Mans is too good to miss so I'll be doing all three.

t.

I had thought that too, but my experience this year has made my mind up not to miss another LM24, even if it means making a shorter trip than my usual 2 weeks in June!

F

I made that same decision a few years back, but although I love the classic for what it is, I really have missed being at the 24hr this year. I really want to get to Sebring and the 'ring 24 next year too, so it looks like I will need to redouble my efforts at forcing a divorce to make it possible.

I thought I had cracked it last month when Mrs LB came home early to find a stripped down Triumph Tiger Cub engine and gearbox in the new dish washer.

It must be something they put in the Bier.

t.