Club Arnage

The government implemented new rules as from today and they are draconian. I am sure no one here would even consider speeding :o, but if you do consider this before so doing:-

So, having read today's paper, the result is this:-

1. any excess speed more than 30mph over the prevailing limit will incur a fine of 3,750 euros and the car/bike impounded. see 3.

2. the offence has now been uprated to a serious crime, and punishable with up to five years in prison

3. the vehicle will be confiscated and sold for state funds

4. Any use of a mobile phone will incur a fine of 135 euros on the spot

5. Motorcyclists must from hereon wear a high viz jacket at all times

6. The alcohol limit has remained at 0.5 grammes, not reduced to 0.2 as thought

7.The request to reduce the maximum speed limit in town to 20mph has not been applied

I am sure that there will be numerous cases of people who, after Le Mans, will cry wolf, but I can't give you a more grave warning than this. I spoke to a gendarme today and they are under orders to implement the letter of the law.

ref: #5

Vest style, or does it have to have sleeves as well?
Is a 'Sam Brown' style reflective belt acceptable.

Have searched net for exact requirements and can't find a single reference.
CA leads the way with news!  :)

All over the French press:
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2011/05/11/securite-routiere-les-principales-mesures-du-gouvernement_1520389_3224.html

Good Grief, they will love it! anybody know how they sell them off?

Regarding #4.

<silly mode >
That seems a little harsh.   >:D >:D >:D

A total ban on Mobile phones?   I really can't see what is wrong with using a Mobile phone while standing on the pavement

</silly mode>

To be serious does it include hands free?

t.

I would imagine they go via an auction, could be a good place to pick up a few cheap sports cars.

They have had this power for a while I think, maybe they will now up the anti and enforce it more, keep it calm and make sure your not an example.

Whats the law on High-Viz jackets,

I read that you now have to carry one in the car, and that it has to be to hand when you stop and NOT in the boot!

But do you need one for the car driver or one for each passenger?

Think I have a nice orange one already   ;D

How should I read '4. Any use of a mobile phone will incur a fine of 135 euros on the spot', is that also when you are on handsfree in the car?

thats f**k*ng bad!!!

Especially if your a passenger!  ::)

This has been covered before I think.

You need 1 x hi-viz jacket for each person travelling in the car, the jacket must be accessible so that it can be  put on before you leave the vehicle.

I keep 5 in my glovebox.

Was asked by LD Lines to confirm this when I checked in at Dover in 2009.

Paul/Landman

They are also removing all the warning signs for speed cameras, and planning to install another 1000 of the buggers.

I bought me one of these recently : http://www.coyotesystems.co.uk/.

Saved my drivers license several times on the way to the testday and back.

i sense a lot of cheap classic cars will bee fore sale in france. To bad the wheel is on the wrong site :police:

Motorists: vest and triangle mandatory from 1 October 2008

Sanctions will be applied from 1 October 2008 against motorists whose vehicle is not equipped with a high visibility safety vest and warning triangle.


From that date, motorists who do not comply with these new obligations will be liable to a class-4 fine (€135 fixed penalty, reduced to €90 if paid within 15 days of issue).

The high visibility safety vest must be worn by a driver before he exits a vehicle immobilised on or by  the roadside in response to an emergency.
It must include the "CE" mark and a reference to one of two standards: "EN 471" or "EN 1150".


Upon leaving the vehicle, the driver must place a warning triangle on the roadside at a distance of at least 30 meters from his vehicle or from the obstacle.
The marking "E 27 R" certifies the conformity of the triangle with existing standards.




The wearing a high visibility safety vest also becomes mandatory from 1 October 2008 for every cycle rider and passenger, when out of town at night (or during the day, when visibility is insufficient).

Any cycle rider or passenger not wearing a high visibility safety vest after that date will be liable to a class-2 fine (€35 fixed penalty, reduced to €22 if paid within 15 days of issue).

http://www.service-public.fr/actualites/00905.html?xtor=EPR-140 (Oops, that link is broken - I'll  find the right one!)


http://librevent.over-blog.com/ext/http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/vos-infos/presse/communiques/2-2008/CP_18-06-08.html  That's better.

They have gone mad !!!!! that used to be a pleasurable trip down to Le Mans. Looks like we will be going down the old road rather than the motorway always made for a better trip anyway.  :angel:

My 5-sided triangle is missing the E 27 R designation.  This means it doesn't comply with their triangle standards?  Philistines.

Any idea if that also refers to cyclists Termie? (as opposed to motorcyclists)

H

It has been mandatory for cyclists for over 2 years, yes  (although a lot ignore it).  I put this up as well  because I know quite a lot of you bring (pedal) bikes, H.  The motor-bike law is brand new (and might have to go through parliament yet - I'm not sure because the Monde article doesn't specify exactly which of the new measures is immediate and which not.)

I've yet to find any legal reference that suggests it's more than one vest per car - either now or in the future - because that link was broken but I'm still looking.

So does that mean I have to wear a Hi-viz jacket when I ride my Funky moped around Le Mans?

I thought it was illegal to own, let alone use, radar detectors in france?

I've heard stories of people getting fined and having to driver over their own radar detector to stop them using it again!

The detectors of mobile cameras are indeed illegal (confiscation and fines are common - I'll see if I can find what the penalties are.)  In Switzerland it's illegal to have a device with a fixed camera detector so you have to be sure to turn off that option when you cross the border if you have a SatNav on board. ::)  What I don't know is whether fixed camera detectors will become illegal in France along with the new measures to move the warning boards.   I think this hydra is due to grow a lot more heads before they've finished.

A few decent driving lessons wouldn't to amiss either.

Maximum penalty for having a mobile radar detector is
1500€, 2 points and up to 3 years in prison.

If you can read French, this website gives aall the different laws and penalties:

http://librevent.over-blog.com/ext/http://www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/vos-infos/presse/communiques/2-2008/CP_18-06-08.html


EDIT :

Deffo one vest per car, not per passenger but it must be within reach of the driver.  Nowt wrong with carrying a few more though, really, just in case you all have to get out for some reason, but it is NOT a legal requirement.

I'd still be pretty circumspect if I were you. The D road we use to travel beck and forth to the circuit from our hotel has quite often been policed over the years.

Yes, I think it does.

Deb/Kpy  I would be very intrested to know when the requirement for the high vis jackets for motorcycles, comes into force.

Apparently this one isn't illegal. It was launched at first in France and very popular in Belgium too these days. It's got a database with all fixed camera's, mobile camera's are signalized by the users of the Coyote.
When a mobile cam is detected the coyote will warn you and say how many other users confirmed and when the last confirmation went through. Works perfect and completely legal (doesnt scan frequencys of radars).

I tried it in Germany this afternoon driving to the Nurburgring, but here it will only show the fixed radars.

More information about this found on another web site:

May 11, 2011 - Interministerial Committee for Road Safety
On this day of launching the World Decade for Action for Road Safety (2011 - 2020) by the UN and the WHO decision to which France has contributed significantly, Prime Minister Francois Fillon, has chaired the fourth Interministerial Committee on Road Safety Board (IRB) of the mandate.

Of the 103 measures decided by the IRB since 2008, 101 were implemented.

The actions taken by the IRB's May 11, 2011 aim to fight against the increase in road deaths recorded on French roads since the beginning of the year and the relaxation behavior that is the cause.

Without waiting for the implementation of these measures, the Prime Minister asked the Minister of the Interior, Overseas, local authorities and immigration to implement tighter controls on the roads, and any especially during the long weekends of June.

1 - Discourage speeding
Driving is an important act, which requires the driver to devote his full attention. However, distractions (phone, text messaging, mobile Internet and other screens while driving ...) are increasing, as are the risk behaviors of drivers underestimate the risks associated with fatigue and sleepiness. The lowering of attention to driving, whatever the cause is the cause of many tragedies of the road.
Decisions of the IRB:

To end the irresponsible behavior of those who allow themselves to run at speeds very abusive, speeding over 50 km / h will now be legally qualified, the first offense, a misdemeanor.

The warning radars , which are an incitement to violate the rules on speed limits, will be banned.

Signs indicating the presence of speed cameras will be removed and the installation of radar maps will not be made ​​public. The information on the positioning of speed cameras in fact encourages some drivers to not respect the rules of proximity to their speeds.

1 000 new radars will be deployed by the end of 2012, and next generation mobile radars, to monitor the speed of users from service vehicles, or semi-mobile (movable to secure such areas of sites) will be tested this year.

To help the vast majority of drivers mindful of speed limits to do so, all technologies to better control its speed will be favored with information about speed limits by GPS incentive clamping voluntary motor or the installation of a voluntary speed limiter . These measures will be promoted by setting up a label "safe car" that will recognize the level of safety equipment of the vehicle, the label must be the subject of discussions will be held with industry, associations and insurers.

2 - Fight against alcohol and drugs on the road

Driving under the influence of alcohol is the leading cause of death and driving infringement: In 2009, 30% of those killed on the road are in an accident in the presence of alcohol above the legal rate. Driving while alcohol multiplies by 8 the risk of being involved in a fatal crash by 14 and if more cannabis.
Decisions of the IRB:

The ability to conduct a blood test for the alcohol or the presence of drugs following a positive test conducted by law enforcement will be extended to nurses.

Using a alcolock be made ​​compulsory without delay for all transport of people with a alcolock.

Any alcohol in driving situations than 0.8 g / L will be punished by the withdrawal of 8 points , 6 cons now.

3 - Secure the use of motorized two-wheelers

The accident rate for drivers of motorized two-wheelers remains a concern in France. They represented in 2010 approximately 24% of those killed on the road for less than 2% of traffic.
Decisions of the IRB:

License plates for two-wheelers will be larger to make it more effective controls.

Those that continue the use of a motorcycle after 5 year break will now follow training did not lead to two-wheelers over the past five years.

Drivers of motorcycles and tricycles must wear a retro-reflective equipment.

4 - Increase vigilance and combat driving all factors that reduce the focus on driving
Driving is an important act, which requires the driver to devote his full attention. However, distractions (phone, text messaging, mobile Internet and other screens while driving ...) are increasing, as are the risk behaviors of drivers underestimate the risks associated with fatigue and sleepiness. The lowering of attention to driving, whatever the cause is the cause of many tragedies of the road.
Decisions of the IRB:

Phone while driving , hand held phone will be punished more severely, with a contravention of the 4th class (instead of the 2nd class) giving rise to a withdrawal of three points in the driver's license (instead of withdrawing two points).

In partnership with the mobile professional, technical solutions will be developed to help limit phone conversations while driving.

The penalties for driving with a screen device in operation in the field of vision (other aid to the conduct and navigation GPS type) will be compounded: the withdrawal of three points and fined 1,500 euros (fixed fine for this offense is now 135-euro fine and the withdrawal of two points). Violators could face also with the seizure of the screen device.

The traffic lane and emergency lane offset , though prohibited, is causing too many tragedies suffered by so many users of the highway that professionals involved in this network: non-compliance these rules will be punished more severely (135 euro fine, withdrawal of three points).

The bands sound banks , to prevent the driver falling asleep, be generalized on all the highways at a rate of roadworks.

5 - Provide more space for citizens in road safety policy
To maintain around the issue of road safety citizen mobilization that enabled the progress of recent years, action must be brought by road users as well as by governments. They may not be as long as they are concerted, explained, evaluated and possibly corrected.
Decisions of the IRB:

A new National Council for Road Safety , a forum for debate and reflection on issues of road safety, will be reunited in a new configuration to the expanded membership.

The experiment conducted in 80 high schools to educate students about road safety will be gradually extended from September 2011.

The Interministerial Committee for Road Safety has also been a progress of actions taken since the spring of 2010 on the prevention of occupational road risk and decided to continue this action.

With all due respect, that looks like a Bablefish translation of the main points of the article in Le Monde.  Fillon appears to have asked for the current laws to be better enforced but I still don't see much there to confirm that the new regs are yet in place - certainly not that they are law.

Dottore, as the proposal is that publication of the location of fixed cameras is to be banned too, I cannot imagine that those devices will be looked upon very favourably.  Whatever, I will keep an eye on the press and try to keep you posted, as no doubt will Christopher also. :)

yes I think it was a Bablefish translation, but when you cnat read french - anything helps

Apprently there has been groups of bike riders going slow in Paris already. - Sounds like me normally on my funky moped  ::)

Like most of us on here I don't condone excessive speeding,  but again like most of us I am not an angel when it comes to speed control! 

Last year on the way to LM the only speed trap I saw was in a restricted (for safety) section of the peage, and yes i was on the limit or there abouts,  but as i say i do tend to travel at around 140kph or so when all is clear and safe to do so,  i guess that I will have to either keep to the exact limit or be extra vigilant!  Keeping close to the limit is obviously easier,  but there are always times when you just need to get past a truck or two...

I'd still be pretty circumspect if I were you. The D road we use to travel beck and forth to the circuit from our hotel has quite often been policed over the years.
[/quote]

A fair point well made. Last year one of our number got a 90 Euro fine which for the speed we were all doing we thought this was more than fair this was on the peage. Its a shame the old system is being replaced.

Don't think that you'll be safe once you've passed fixed speed cameras before/during/after LM either.

Les Flics are setting up more and more hidden cameras just after the fixed cameras, i.e. when peeps think it's "safe" to boot it again!

Also, beware of any unmarked estate cars that look like broken down vehicles. They usually have cameras attached to the back of them and you can't see it until it's too late.

Drink driving: again, being clamped down on massively, so be warned if you're setting off after the race and have had a couple of beers in the day, or indeed leaving on Monday morning after the Sunday night.

It's not a race to get to/from Le Mans - the race is when you're there. Enjoy!

Yes the government study group has stated that it wants to ban Coyote type devices and will stop supplying fixed radar locations to Tom Tom etc.
Like Termie I don't think the new measures are immediate - I haven't seen any decrees published and in any event some of the definitions are too wooly. But existing legislation is quite enough to spoil your trip if you're caught speeding - at least 90€ fine and loads more plus an immediate ban (licence confiscation) and car confiscation if you're 30 mph over any limit. They can - and do - also fine you 90€ for not having driving licence, V5 and insurance certificate (or any one of them) with you.
But be aware, there will be a hefty police prescence on the routes to and from the race - it's a holiday weekend and that brings out the mobile radars all over France. Drive sensibly within the posted limits, don't drink more than a couple of beers and drive, and you'll be fine.
Have a great trip there and back everybody!

I'll echo Kpy there, have a safe and enjoyable trip.

I don't think we will have any problems in our minibus. Usual cruise there and back.
Perhaps all these measures will deter the chav element even more.

there is a campaign on the aco site to sign against the new laws and proposed legislation.probably wont help but 40 million people have signed so far.there may be a possiblity of protesters around the circuit like the yogurt factory strike in about 1993 getting people to sign petitions

Ah the imfamous Yoplait strike, Took me ages to get rid of the smell of rancid yogurt out of me motor. Still makes me gag now thinking about it. In fact it was the precursor to the water pistols on Mad Friday but filled with all sorts of orrible dairy products.

Retaliation spud gun me rekons..

The link to the petition is:

http://www.40millionsdautomobilistes.com/Data/Dossiers/securite-routiere/179/830.asp#lemans.org_facebook (http://www.40millionsdautomobilistes.com/Data/Dossiers/securite-routiere/179/830.asp#lemans.org_facebook)

Actually, "40 million motorists" is the name of the pressure group.  It's not the number who have so far signed the petition.

But sign it too, and maybe we'll get there. :)

The outcome of the inter-ministerial committee on road safety can be found here: http://bit.ly/kC8gZy

It's a wish list of measures, some of which can be implemented straight away, some will require legislation. But they will happen - the committee says of 103 measures decided since 2008, 101 have been put into effect.

This is the point to beware of when heading to LM this year: "Without waiting for these measures to be put into effect, the prime minister called on the interior minister...to put in place extra checks on the roads, especially during the long weekends in June".

France already has pretty hefty fines for speeding etc (1500E for 50kph+ over the limit)- this suggests they will be enforced rigorously.

Incidentally, the new speeding penalties would make the same offence punishable by 3 months in prison. Given that more than 25 000 people were caught doing just that last year, french jails could get very full indeed.

http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2011/05/24/radars-le-recul-du-gouvernement-signe-la-fin-du-tout-repressif_1526859_823448.html#xtor=RSS-3208

Better news.  

The programme to remove the warning panels has been halted.  Discussions will take place with the manufacturers of warning devices (I assume mainly Garmin and TomTom) for a better exchange of safety information such as debris on carriageways, adverse weather etc.  The ban on detectors of mobile speed traps is already in place and will remain - as to fixed devices, watch this space.  More "non punitive" radar devices will be installed - ie those which tell you the speed your going at - many in front of fixed camera positions (replacing the existing panel warning signs) but others will be stand-alone.

 Safety organisations are moaning because the government is already back-pedalling on some of the proposals and bowing to pressure from motorists.

If I've misread this or left out any major stuff then I hope that kpy will put me right as I read it in a bit of a hurry.  Off to the barn now to see if the mice have eaten our tent during the winter. :)

In short:
The government has had second thoughts on removal of fixed radar warning panels; there will now be "local consultation" on the matter, plus development of road safety/radar camera education.
Government is also backtracking on banning GPS devices mapping fixed radar cameras.
However these new measures were never going to affect this year's racegoers from abroad. Rest assured that mobile speed cameras and random breath testing/document checks will be in place near the circuit and on the main routes leading to it.
It's a holiday weekend and that increases the probability of police prescence on the roads including on Monday 13 June.

Jolly good.  There he is. :)

Or for those of us using the Google Chrome browser, here's the instant translation: -

Why did I bother  ???

Here's why:

"which removal of these panels being hung up a "local consultation" and a "radar teaching" , not penalizing, eventually replace each panel." ;)

Yes, dear old Chrome is useful in that it's instant translation, but it's a literal translation & often leaves much to be desired, hence why folks with language skills will always be more accurate with the detail.  8)

Still can't find out if you have to wear a hi-viz noddy jacket yet. ???

Not yet.  None of this is law.  The only part of the new regs which they had begun to implement was the removal of the panels which wasn't a legal requirment in the first place.  Every change in the law has to go through parliament.  As kpy says - take care to stick to the CURRENT rules of the road (as these may be enforced more vigourously) and don't worry too much about the new ones yet to be passed.  We'll keep you posted. :)

Meanwhile, Barry, as a biker - can you tell me what the problem would be to wear one anyway.  A lot of bikers on another forum (France related) which I frequent are very unhappy about this.  Please explain to Mme 4 wheels what the problem is. :)

You can't show off the badges on your heavy duty leather jacket you are wearing?  ???

As Deb says, the law has yet to be changed. In fact they have yet to announce what form the reflective clothing should take.
I've ended up in hospital twice after being knocked off my cycle whilst minding my own business. Each time the motorist causing the accident didn't see me. "Think twice, think bike" is a good slogan, but what harm can a little extra visibility do?

I think the basic reason is the type of people who ride bikes don't like being told what to do.
As to there effectiveness, if the SMIDSY's can't see a bike with it's headlight on, then a hi-viz will make little difference.
Also there is some who think the less loose clothing there is to catch on something while you are sliding down the road the better thats why you should never wear a chain looped over your shoulder.
Much more dangerous is the new rule on daylight running lights on cars, at the moment we stand out (headlights on). When all cars have to have running lights we again merge into the general background light clutter.

Pushbikes are another matter.

 ???

I'n only allowed to ride pushbike and 49 cc, but still I don't like to be told what to do. ;)