Club Arnage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00z8v18

Just started on BBC 4 TV. Looks informatiive

The drivers were absolute legends in those days, as brave as could be.

Bugger, missed it, does anyone know when it's being repeated?

It's watchable on BBC iPlayer now.

Definitely worth a watch. Be aware there are a couple of grisly images that can take you aback a bit!

Thanks Neil, I would have missed it, very emotive.

Bummer :-\

The killer years was probably the best programme on F1 I have ever seen, seems odd that those guys were paid peanuts and risked everything whilst todays racers are paid millions but the risks are smaller, those drivers paid for the safety of todays drivers with thier lives

Paddy: use a VPN connection.  ;)

Saw a great documentary on belgian tv last monday, about the deadly accident Gilles Villeneuve had at Zolder, never saw the footage before! Those guys were heroes of their time!

Living in the States I haven't seen this program yet, but it sounds interesting, if the title sounds more than a little sensationlist.  Speed TV ran a program years ago called the Quick & Dead, filmed mostly in the early seventies.  It was pretty cheesy, with its narration by Stacey Keach, and showed some pretty gory stuff (Tom Pryce's Kyalami shunt, Roger Williamson's Zandvoort accident,etc.) but it was worth watching because it had some fantastic, extensive interview footage with drivers like Francois Cevert, and Peter Revson.  Guys who died before the film was ever completed.  As you said, it was different era.  Horribly dangerous, but as Jackie Stewart once said, we were doing the best we could with the technology that was available at the time.  Compared to what they had known in the fifties and sixties, it was many times safer.
Fax

The program is worth watching (if you excuse some of the clips which are either out of sequence or from indy) it was not a half bad program,

Some of those interviewed where still feeling the pain for events that they could not control and others seemed to want to blame chapman for the death of a loved one.

It stopped at the Zandvoot crash of Williamson, but could have carried on as it was some years before real progress had been made and many more drivers died.

In hindsight it is amazing the positions that spectators where allowed into!

Without asking, I assume you refer to Nina Rindt, she's been very pointed with her blame for her husband's death, and she's always squarely layed it a Colin Chapman's feet.
The accident that had the biggest impact on safety was probably the '78 Monza shunt.  The shambolic rescue, and the chaos that followed, prompted Bernie to bring in Sid Watkins as the official FIA advisor, and form a safety commitee, rather than leave things up to the locals, who made a complete mess of things at Monza.
Fax

Correct Nina Rindt clearly felt that Chapman was to blame. Namely the distrust of the new 72 and Chapman not taking the older car when Rindt was more than happy with it,

Having already won the championship it does seem right to bring on the new car so it could be fully developed prior to the next season. However maybe it was a still to new to race and the need a bit more testing. But then the testing could also have been as fatal.

The 78 Monza crash is the first that I affected me, I was a Ronnie fan and seeing it all played out on telly was quite shocking. The advances in safety after that driven by Bernie and others where alot faster, technology also helped, fuel cells and deformable structures etc.

I've always had sympathy for Nina and her anger at what happened, but at the end of the day, whether the car broke, or it just got away from Jochen under braking without wings, if he had been wearing his crotch straps, the injuries that killed him wouldn't have happened.
Agreed, I was badly shocked by Monza '78 as well, Ronnie was my hero growing up and watching that played out was pretty big jolt to someone at sixteen, who had already been following the sport for several years and already seen a fair amount of tragedy.  But for all of the bashing we level at Bernie, he really became commited to making sure safety improved.  At that time, that standard of medical care and marshaling varied dramatically from country to country.  The handwriting was on the wall two weeks before Monza when Patrese and Pironi had that colossal accident at the start of the Dutch GP, Patrese's shattered Arrows ending up in a heap in the middle of the road.  The next several laps of TV footage could have been called The Three Stooges Try To Move A Wrecked Racng Car.  The sport had become by that stage, too polished & professional for races to be run the way they were.
Fax

I found a copy of Prof Sid Watkins book in a jumble sale, and it describes setting up the proper medical facilities etc.  Uniquely, he has wonderful things to say about Bernie Ecclestone, who was boss of FOCA at the time and running Brabham.  In one race, he told the circuit that unless they did what Sid wanted, the drivers would get out of the cars, which were on the grid, and they'd all go home :o

I'll defend Bernie on few things, but his stance on safety is one of them.  Going back to the 1978 Italian GP accident, if you've ever watched the entire fiasco...
Immediately after the shunt, two very badly injured drivers (Ronnie Peterson & Vittorio Brambilla) were left lying in the middle of the track for over fiteen minutes, accompanied by only their collegues (Patrick Depailler, James Hunt, Didier pironi, Arturo Merzario,etc) waiting for help, while the Italian police were busy clubbing, or sending German Shepards at people trying to get to the accident scene to help.  Clay Regazzoni was in Bernie's face, in a state of absolute rage, wanting to know why in the hell there was no medical help on the scene.  I think that had a BIG effect on Bernie at the time, and did afterwards in the wake of Ronnie's death.
People in the sport these days don't realize the probably thousands of racing drivers who owe their lives over the years to the efforts of men like Jackie stewart, Louis Stanely, and yes... Bernie.
Fax

Hi
to all of you who missed it it kan be found on youtube.
Kenn

IIRC, one of Bernie Ecclestone's few areas of sentiment is about deceased drivers. During the late 1950's, IIRC, Ecclestone was closely involved with the tragically lost Stewart Lewis Evans who was killed at the Morocco GP at the end of the 1958 season. Ecclestone stayed out of racing for many years after Lewis-Evans's death as a result of it and perhaps the fact that the 1958 season was one of tremendous losses among drivers.

Watched this for the first time last night on the Velocity Channel over here.  Wasn't as sensationalist as I thought it would be, actually not bad.  Most of the footage we've seen a thousand times, but the interviews with some of the greats of the era made it well worth watching.  Most of the opinions are what I expected, Jackie's battles with circuit owners, and Nina Rindt's anger with Colin Chapman are well known.
Fax

This week I was given the last bit of my 2011 Christmas pressie, which was the Ecclestone biog. Not in a position to start reading it yet (still reading Keith Richards, Christmas 2010 pressie, and have others to go) but I'm quite looking forward to it even though think I dislike him, to say the least.

Will update this thread once Iv'e read it.

About 2015 I reckon :-)

James Hunt always blamed Patrese for Peterson's death. Did Hunt take this opinion to his grave?

As far I understand, yes.  Nigel Roebuck did a interview with Patrese several years ago, where Ricardo said that he had tried to patch things up with Hunt, but James wouldn't talk to him.  Most people who remember the tragedy, tend to agree that James was probably as much to blame as Ricardo, but could never bring himself to face it.
There's no doubt Patrese moved over on James in the run to the first chicane at Monza, but its appeared that James perhaps over-reacted to the sight of Patrese coming over on his right, and clipped Peterson's right rear wheel when he moved left.
Hunt always maintained that Patrese hit him, but the video, and photographic evidence has never supported his claim.
Fax

Thanks fax. I remember when Hunt did the F1 commentary with Murray, quite often when Patrese was shown Hunt would make a barbed comment!

My adibing memory of James was when i marshalled at Brands and I had to tell him to take his kids out of a garage during a race :police: